1969 Nova L78/L89 question

[442w30]

Any documented cars exist?

The 311 number that is floating around is the Camaro's number. I have a sense none were built, but if any exist, you guys would know.

So....Bueller?

[Tracker1]

Many threads on this site pertaining to that option. All lead to the same place: possible, but not probable. I remain unconvinced of their existence, but at the same time hopeful an example with documentation gets found...kinda like how I feel about Santa Claus.

[EZ Nova]

This is the only one I have ever heard of, but a 1970:

http://www.legendarymotorcar.com/inventory/1970-chevrolet-nova-ss-847.aspx

[92646]

I could be wrong but I thought that one was proven to be as real as the rest of them. Was there some story about date code correct 074 heads on the car? Or is that another L89 Nova?

[kwhizz]

Not real.……. Feel sorry for the guy that bought it at Auction for $190K thinking it was a real car.…...

[Ryan1969Chevelle]

There is a L78/L89 Nova Cortez Silver, but I didn’t get any proof when I was setting up the L89 Display for MCACN.... so the Nova’s were not included.

Ryan W31

[Ryan1969Chevelle]

Many threads on this site pertaining to that option. All lead to the same place: possible, but not probable. I remain unconvinced of their existence, but at the same time hopeful an example with documentation gets found...kinda like how I feel about Santa Claus.

Careful you may get a lump of coal....

I believe!! And I am hoping for correct floor mats....

Ryan W31

[Hotrodpaul]

Even the Camaro's are very few and far between. Finding a documented original drivetrain L89 Camaro about as rare as hens teeth..... Most were torn up drag racing, those poor Aluminum heads took a beating and ate valves on many occasion.

Paul

[olredalert]

----I wish someone (not me-too old and too far away) would try and dig in to Bob McDorman's 1969 Nova deliveries. I stopped there all the time in late 68 thru 69 as I went to college at Ohio U, and there were always at least 15 to 20 375 Nova's on the front line. I remember seeing L89 one of the times I was there, and thought it was a Nova, but could be wrong as there were a lot of Camaros around as well. Way big sensory overload back then......Bill S

[Lynn]

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but itsn't the 311 number from Tonawanda engine assembly records? In other words, they built 311 engines coded JJ (four speed) or JM (auto trans).

If so, then those 311 could have ended up in EITHER Nova or a Camaro, as they shared engine codes for most of the engines. Chevelles are different, but Nova and Camaro are the same.

I have never seen a documented L89 Nova. Just don't know why it wouldn't be possible to have ordered one.

[m22mike]

Yes Lynn, and thanks for understanding and posting that. Both Camaro and Chevelle share that 311 number. Not Nova. Which makes L78/L89 cars somewhat scarce and very tuff to prove.
Mike

[Ryan1969Chevelle]

I thought there was a different code for a Nova L89??

CHK? (Memory is a terrible thing to waste so I will post without checking facts :-)

Ryan W31

[Lynn]

Yes Lynn, and thanks for understanding and posting that. Both Camaro and Chevelle share that 311 number. Not Nova. Which makes L78/L89 cars somewhat scarce and very tuff to prove.
Mike

I think you just thanked me for understanding something I do not understand. Although I think I do understant that the 311 was total production of the L89 engines (coded JJ and JM) at Tonawanda.

What would have precluded ordering a Nova with the L89 option? Wouldn't it have the exact same engine code suffix as a Camaro? After all and HA coded 350 could have ended up in EITHER a Camaro or a Nova? So what would have precluded a JJ coded L89 engine from ending up in a Nova? I understand that there MAY have been no way to order it in a Nova, but has this been researched?

[m22mike]

Lynn
I don't know the answers, other than it was not a option on Nova ?
Mike

[442w30]

I have never seen a documented L89 Nova. Just don't know why it wouldn't be possible to have ordered one.

Chevrolet did weird things:

- Skipped L72 for 1967
- Skipped L79 for 1966 Chevelle
- Didn't offer 396/350 for 1967 Camaro
- Didn't offer 396/325 for Nova SS

So, yeah, I get that some things don't make sense. But a lot doesn't make sense.

Also, I don't think the Chevelle and Camaro share the 311 number. The number for Chevelles is 400.

[fsc66]

1969 Nova production does not show any L89's being produced. 1969 Camaro production shows 311 units, 309 through the end of September and the other 2 after that date. 1969 Chevelle L89 production shows: 400 units. Corvette production shows: 364 units.

Paul

[ss427copo]

The L89 laid on the parts room floor in favor of L-88

[1971ls6]

All L89 motors used closed chamber 842 heads, only the L88 vettes and the 69 ZL1 camaro and 2 vets used the open chamber 074 heads.

[kwhizz]

The Black 70 had 074 heads on it...….. And, there is a much easier way to tell a real L-89 Nova apart from the others..... LOL..... This is one of those you had to be there stories... while looking at the Black car back after it was completed at the Nova Nationals.... Legendary Motor cars in Canada built the car and the owner put it in for Judging...
The Judge (can't remember his name, but he is a expert in the 68-70 Nova world) went to the owner and told him it would probably be a good idea to take his car out of the Judging area as it probably wouldn't get 900 points, the owner pulled the car out and wasn't too Happy ( I don't think he was a real car guy anyway) and parked it in the Show area...… There was me and about 6 of the members here that were walking thru area looking at the cars (I had the Gold 70 L-89 Clone car there) …… we stopped to look at the Black car and were talking about the engine.... The owner was sitting behind the car and heard us...… He wasn't too happy and told us what is our problem.... All you have to do is look at the distributor cap..... It's Brown.... "Only L-89 cars came with Brown Caps"......LOL.... There'[s a lot more to the story but it would take pages to tell it all...… So......Just look at the Cap color...… End of Story !!!

[L78steve]

Was the Black 70 clearly a re-stamp? I realize it cant be real but how are they all so convinced its is? POP? Paper?

[SS427]

----I wish someone (not me-too old and too far away) would try and dig in to Bob McDorman's 1969 Nova deliveries. I stopped there all the time in late 68 thru 69 as I went to college at Ohio U, and there were always at least 15 to 20 375 Nova's on the front line. I remember seeing L89 one of the times I was there, and thought it was a Nova, but could be wrong as there were a lot of Camaros around as well. Way big sensory overload back then......Bill S

You, the king of all things remembered? I doubt your memory is foggy as you could remember what you had for breakfast on this date in 1970 and more importantly, who you were eating it with. ;)

[kwhizz]

All the owner had was a POP He had a display board in his trunk with a picture of it..... LOL...…. GTO Don was with us that day..... He was looking at the picture of the POP and noticed the address on the POP was right down the street from where he lived..... He had never seen the car...… There's a lot more !!! Enough for now

[92646]

There is also the story of where the date coded 074 came from. L89 Novas have a special place in Ken's heart. He built the best L89 clone I have seen. It was better than the other Novas that were represented as real.

[70 Forest Green Zee]

There is also the story of where the date coded 074 came from. L89 Novas have a special place in Ken's heart. He built the best L89 clone I have seen. It was better than the other Novas that were represented as real.

I agree, Ken's 70 Nova was one of the nicest Novas I've ever seen....been scratching my head ever since he sold that one as to why he'd ever let that one go. All of the cars he's ever built have been spectacular!

[m22mike]

I was there with Ken that day and when the guy said all L89's had the brown cap is when I walked away...
I will say this the car had a awesome black paint job, but 074 heads ??
Gosh, that's already been 10 years ago !
Mike

[olredalert]

You, the king of all things remembered? I doubt your memory is foggy as you could remember what you had for breakfast on this date in 1970 and more importantly, who you were eating it with. ;)

----LOL......Whoa! What did I have for breakfast......Bill S

[iluv69s]

If I recall, the stamp on the 70 Nova looked really good according to some folks. ( But there are virtually almost undetectable restamps out there) But, Wasn’t part of the issue with the 70 car about GM never making open chamber pistons in 1970 for 074 heads?

If memory serves me!

[kwhizz]

If I recall, the stamp on the 70 Nova looked really good according to some folks. ( But there are virtually almost undetectable restamps out there) But, Wasn’t part of the issue with the 70 car about GM never making open chamber pistons in 1970 for 074 heads?

If memory serves me!




Correct!

[Igosplut]

I remember years back when one of these claimed L89 70 Novas popped up there was a member here (don't remember the name) that had been a salesman at Scuncio back then, that said he tried multiple times to order aluminum head Novas for 1970, and Chevrolet would not build them.

[JoeC]

Bob Johnson was the hi po salesman at Scuncio in RI

there was a gofundme to help him out as he was/is having health issues

https://www.gofundme.com/tjkj522w

[Mr70]

11 years ago Bob Johnson himself used to frequent here and went by HiPerf.
The Black L89 Nova @ Legendary was talked about here along with this placard in the trunk.
4 pages long https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=92366
Some memorable Quotes from Bob:
*Chevrolet never built or sold an L89 Nova. I would really like to see the paper work to this car.It is a strong statement and one i'm sticking to,the car was never build. I don't mean to offend any one but if some one has paper work for a 1970 L89 Nova,its fake.
*I don't have anything form GM saying that they were never built if thats what your asking.
*If you walked in to any Chevrolet dealer in 69 or 70 and wanted to order a L89 Nova they would tell you its not possible. I tried to order a L89 Nova from Chevrolet in 1969 and could not get one. It was just not built,i'm sorry that its to hard to believe. I could get just about any option on any car,but the L89 in a Nova. If you have paper work to prove an L89 Nova was built,there are many that would like to see it.
*I was the one trying to buy the cars from Chevrolet,not the dealership. I could get you as many 427 Camaro's or Chevelle's you wanted in 69,those cars were easy to come by,Chevrolet made lots of them.
*Did any Novas get converted to L89 at your dealership for customers or for stock after you found out you couldn't get one direct from GM?.... We would install anything that could not be ordered from the factory on any car.

[L78_Nova]

I would still drive the fake balls off that car !!!!!

[lowmile]

The placard in trunk seems to be, at its best, misleading. I have never seen or heard of L89 ever being an option on a Nova, rare or otherwise. And If It ever did happen out the back door of GM it would not have been a closed chamber head. The burden of proof lies on the owners of these cars making this claim and I have never seen anything as of yet that would remotely change my mind. Of course the only person they have to convince is the next owner. And the only completely undeniable fact is I won't be it.

[L78_Nova]

I believe the black "L89" car is still in Bob Marvin's "The Shed" collection in Warroad MN.
Gary

[kwhizz]

There’s more to the story other than the Brown distributor cap. But..... don’t care to get involved in the controversy and don’t care..... but.... put a LSA in it and drive it

[Igosplut]

11 years ago Bob Johnson himself used to frequent here and went by HiPerf.
Thanks for that, I had a PM from him on this very subject, but it was gone and I could not remember his name.

[LARRY540]

if you watch the video on youtube of peter talking about this car they had a gm records guy come to verify the L89 package...according to peter they dont restore any clones,tributes etc.he also said the guy had 6 fiqures in restoring the nova. neat car..I also read somewhere the car was damged at auction & was unable to sell because of that reason.

[kwhizz]

It wasn't a GM records guy...…………..

[WILMASBOYL78]

Nobody knows more about L89 Novas than Tibor!


-wilma

[kwhizz]

Nobody knows more about L89 Novas than Tibor!


-wilma



LOL...…. Nope...… Just have a lot of behind the scenes info on this one.....

[PLATINUM6BBL]

Back 20 some years ago I had a customer in that told me when he came home from Vietnam he first stopped at Stu’s Chrysler Dodge and handed over a check to purchase a T/A Challenger 4spd. After finishing up paperwork Stu said “that there car is a race car so there is no warranty!” Guy snatched back his check and tore it up. Left there and went to the Chevrolet dealer where he said he purchased new a brown, aluminum headed 70 SS396 Nova. This car would have been in the New Bethlehem, PA area and would have raced quite often at Newbie Dragstrip. Now trying to remember who the guy was and the township he worked for.

One of my former neighbors raced an aluminum headed 69 Nova in B/MP but I don’t remember if he said he bought it new or not.

[Copo_Cartel]

The guy that went to inspect the car for authenticity was Brian Henderson (BKH) if memory serves me correctly . :grin:

[PeteLeathersac]

'

I always understood the BKH inspection/comments were of block stamping appearance only, not the car itself or other engine/drivetrain components/paperwork etc?
:hmmm:
~ Pete

.

[Copo_Cartel]

The authenticity of the block stamping could not be correct because that configuration was not offered so there is no way to authenticate something that was never available/offered as an engine configuration . And from what we remember he went up there to authenticate the car as being a real L89 optioned car

[kwhizz]

Not to beat a dead horse...… But, I took my 70 Nova L-89 clone to Vettefest?? back in the mid 2000's and the Black car was parked right with mine...… The owner of the Black car came over and was looking at mine...…. He tells me I have the wrong Rivets holding the TCS relay to the firewall wire gutter...… I acted surprised...… I asked him if he noticed anything else that wasn't correct.....said no...… I told him I was surprised that he didn't notice the 69 high rise intake …….Hummm !!!...… He said he had all the right stuff on his car...….. I asked about the 074 heads..... He told me that the original heads were the true value of the car and were too valuable to leave on the car (a lot more to that story … LOL) ………… I wonder if he included those valuable heads during the Auction of the car.....LOL

[Copo_Cartel]

Ken ...I remember being at that show and hearing that .

[kwhizz]

Not to beat a dead horse...… But, I took my 70 Nova L-89 clone to Vettefest?? back in the mid 2000's and the Black car was parked right with mine...… The owner of the Black car came over and was looking at mine...…. He tells me I have the wrong Rivets holding the TCS relay to the firewall wire gutter...… I acted surprised...… I asked him if he noticed anything else that wasn't correct.....said no...… I told him I was surprised that he didn't notice the 69 high rise intake …….Hummm !!!...… He said he had all the right stuff on his car...….. I asked about the 074 heads..... He told me that the original heads were the true value of the car and were too valuable to leave on the car (a lot more to that story … LOL) ………… I wonder if he included those valuable heads during the Auction of the car.....LOL



Forgot...……. He didn't notice that I didn't have a brown Distributor cap either..... The horror of it all ……

[92646]

I always thought there were issues with the open chamber heads on the 396 / 402 blocks because of the bore size.

[big gear head]

It has to do with the valve sizes, not the chamber shape. The larger valves in the high performance heads are too close to the cylinder walls and it shrouds the valve on that side. The 4 bolt blocks had reliefs cut into the top of the cylinders for the larger valves. The only issue with the open chamber heads is the way they lower the compression ratio. It will lower the compression more on a 396 or 402 than it will with larger displacement engines.

[jerry j]

All 396 blocks have notches

[big gear head]

I knew I would screw up something in that post. I've been messing with these 427s and 454s for so long that I haven't had a 396 apart in a long time.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I'd like a 3.5:1 rear with my 074 L89 option please, and don't forget the brown cap! Originally owned in Hatboro, PA I believe?? Hmmm.....