70 dodge dart vs. 70 nova

[Mr. Chevy]

Very cool and funny dealer promo film...

Enjoy..

Rich

https://youtu.be/W_K8lb2RpQQ

[Bill Pritchard]

I had a 69 Swinger 340, liked the looks of that year, but was not a fan of the 70 Swinger. I also had both a 69 and 70 Nova and liked them both. One thing the film has right is that a bone stock 340 Swinger would blow the doors off a bone stock SS350 Nova.

[RS_COPO_Canuck]

For some reason - the 340 A-Bodies really worked - even against some big block cars.

[RALLY]

I had a 69 Swinger 340, liked the looks of that year, but was not a fan of the 70 Swinger. I also had both a 69 and 70 Nova and liked them both. One thing the film has right is that a bone stock 340 Swinger would blow the doors off a bone stock SS350 Nova.

Agree those 68-69 340 Swinger 4 speeds were some real quick muscle cars. 340 had 2.02 heads, cast iron high rise intake, forged crank, rods, high lift cam, windage tray. These engines were fast and could put the Big Block 383 Darts on the trailer. Again back in the day i could of had a chance to buy one from my former neighbor. Kick myself on that one too. Didnt care for the 70 Dart style.

[Lee Stewart]

The 4 speed 68 340 GTS is faster than the 4 speed 69 340 Swinger/GTS due to a one year only hotter cam. Some say the cam was good for an additional 20 HP.

[John Brown]

I prefer the 70 Dusters looks over the Dart or the Nova. A 340 is the cherry on top.

[GrumpyJeff]

Yep those 340/4spd Darts were Quik on the Street !!! I had a buddy in high school who had a 69 with some gears & a little traction , there wasn't much that could keep up with it from red light to red light. Full 1/4 mile it was probably a different story . But around town that car embarrassed a lot of big block stuff

[KenMaisano]

340's ran killer . I built this in the 80's 71 340 4 Speed W2 heads, Big sold lifter cam. spark plug washers to shim the rocker arm stands. 512 gears. It ran 10.50s very fast for a small block back then.
https://www.yenko.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=175736&stc=1&d=1602258300

[KenMaisano]

https://www.yenko.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=175737&stc=1&d=1602258700

[jl8z28]

I had a 69 340 dart swinger ran great beat a lot of cars with it

[RALLY]

Agree guys, great stories on these 340 Darts. I would love to won one and who knows, been a Chevy guy all my life but if i had the chance to buy a 68 Dart 340 4 speed i would get it. Light weight car with a 340 cube engine, fast car.

[John Brown]

At the Pure Stock Drags, it takes a 360 horse Yenko Nova to beat the 340 Demons and Dusters.

https://www.psmcdr.com/all-time-lists

And this is from a dyed in the wool Chevy guy, but I gotta give credit when it's due.

[Lee Stewart]

1969 Swinger 340 curb weight: 3274 pounds.

That includes a full tank of gas and all fluids. The shipping weight which includes none of those is 3097 pounds

https://www.automobile-catalog.com/make/dodge/dart_4gen/dart_4gen_swinger_340/1969.html

[markinnaples]

Love those Shark-tooth grill Dusters, as well as Demons. Yours looked great Ken.

[GrumpyJeff]

Yep those 340/4spd Darts were Quik on the Street !!! I had a buddy in high school who had a 69 with some gears & a little traction , there wasn't much that could keep up with it from red light to red light. Full 1/4 mile it was probably a different story . But around town that car embarrassed a lot of big block stuff

Though he/it did have a Hard time hanging with my 65 L79 SS Chevelle 4spd/4.10's Depending on my launch, I would usually get him by a car length, but very similar running cars... Fun Times!!!

[Lee Stewart]

The lowest rear Chrysler offered with the 340 was the 3.91. THAT was a killer combo. I liked the fact that Chrysler included a 4 speed with their 1968 and 1969 muscle cars.

https://i.postimg.cc/dV5zsMGn/1969-Dart-Swinger340.jpg (https://postimages.cc/)

Also included were the chrome exhaust tips. Nice that it had 10.5" drum brakes all around unlike the Chevys which had only 9.5"

[Bill Pritchard]

Delete the rear stripe and that's EXACTLY what mine looked like when I bought it in December of 70. It was ordered without the rear stripe. I traded those 4 hubcaps to a friend of mine for a 63 Chrysler Newport that I used for a winter beater.

[jl8z28]

Thats what my dart looked like except mine did not have a vinyl top

[Bill Pritchard]

I gave the only decent picture I had of my Dart to a friend who was the local Motorsports reporter for our local paper. He used it when he started doing a column about the local Cruising scene 'back in the day'.....I never got the picture back, but I have a scan of what appeared in the paper. He may have taken a bit of artistic license when describing my car :tongue: My friends' 69 Super Bee is in the background.

[Lee Stewart]

The one I looked at in the showroom of the local Dodge dealer in Liberty, NY was identical to the photo I posted. Had three options: AM radio, vinyl top and wheel covers. It was going to be my first car which I would take to college with me. I chickened out due to having car payments with no immediate job. So I took most of my $1000 cash down payment money and bought a 1964 327/300HP Impala SS convertible with powerglide, PS and PB. Had some bucks left over to take to college as a nest egg. That was after I bought a reverb and 8 track player.

[RALLY]

1968 340's
• engines painted red w/black accessories 1968 Dodge Dart 340 cubic inch motor specs.

• 275 hp at 5,000 rpm & 340 lb-ft torque at 3,200

• 4.040" bore and 3.310" stroke

• forged crank w/shot peened rods

• 10.5:1 compression ratio

• ‘206’ hydraulic cam - 268 in. dur. - 276 ex. dur. 44 overlap (in 1968, only the

4 speed cars got a more aggressive cam, automatic versions got a cam

that become the standard in these hi-performance engines)

• a dual timing chain and a windage tray

• big X heads - 2.02 inch intake valves and 1.60 inch exhaust valves (894’s)

• free flowing dual plane 4 bbl intake

• Carter 650cfm AVS Carburetor w/1.44" primaries and

1.69" secondaries

[Lee Stewart]

Those were the factory specs. The real HP on a 340 was close to 300. NHRA factored them at 295 for F,G Stock (68 and 69). The 71 was even higher due to the big Thermoquad carb: 320 HP D,E,F,G Stock

[DWR]

18 degree heads also.

[RALLY]

Those were the factory specs. The real HP on a 340 was close to 300. NHRA factored them at 295 for F,G Stock (68 and 69). The 71 was even higher due to the big Thermoquad carb: 320 HP D,E,F,G Stock

In 1968,
the NHRA re-factored the 340's 275 Horsepower rating to 310HP, even
before it hit the pavement at Pomona, for the 1968 Winternationals.

Larry Gilley very competitive in his 68 GTS 340 Dart in stock eliminator.

[earntaz]

In 1968,
the NHRA re-factored the 340's 275 Horsepower rating to 310HP, even
before it hit the pavement at Pomona, for the 1968 Winternationals.

Larry Gilley very competitive in his 68 GTS 340 Dart in stock eliminator.
Does anyone know what the LT-1 as in the 70' Z-28 was factored at by NHRA?

[mockingbird812]

I gave the only decent picture I had of my Dart to a friend who was the local Motorsports reporter for our local paper. He used it when he started doing a column about the local Cruising scene 'back in the day'.....I never got the picture back, but I have a scan of what appeared in the paper. He may have taken a bit of artistic license when describing my car :tongue: My friends' 69 Super Bee is in the background.

That is is just way-cool Bill. Just love it!!! Cool ride!:smile:

[earntaz]

NHRA HP ratings aren't what they used to be. They now take in account racer requests to lower the HP rating. When that happens, the racer gets to drop into a more favourable class. On the other hand, if a specific combination is regularly quick against the Index, the HP factor can be increased. So as you can imagine, there just might be a bit of a hustle going on. Stock and Super Stock use different "stock" HP ratings too. With that in mind....

All of these are ratings with OEM heads; not "legal" replacement heads -- replacement heads can result in more or less HP:

The 1970 Camaro LT1 is currently rated at 320 in Stock with a stick; 325 in Stock with an automatic

The 1970 Corvette LT1 is currently rated at 330 in Stock (stick only, obviously)

The 1971 Camaro LT1 is currently rated at 315 in Stock (stick only -- no automatics accepted)

The 1971 Corvette LT1 is currently rated at 315 in Stock (stick only)

The 1968 & 1969 & 1970 Dart 340 is currently rated at 299 HP in Stock

The 1971 Dart 340 is currently rated at 314 HP in Stock

1970 3X2BBL Challenger is currently rated at 308 HP in Stock with a stick; 319 with an automatic

As you can see, it's little bit of a gong show today and because of that I wouldn't be too quick to use NHRA factors as a rating source today (although years ....maybe decades...ago it certainly was).

Hope that helps.

Wayne

Thanks Wayne -- was it the same in 1970? That is when I was running my Z-28. Thanks again ... Craig

[RALLY]

"Thanks Wayne -- was it the same in 1970? That is when I was running my Z-28. Thanks again ... Craig"


Craig...It was well before my time with the NHRA so I can't give you an absolute answer...however I'm pretty sure it was far different ballgame back then. Farmer Dismuke was the National Tech Director in 1970 (1960 to 1988) and he actually came up with the Classification Guide. Bottom line was Farmer was in charge and there was no monkey business. I don't think in his wildest dreams that the system would be so different (botched?? mis-used?) today. NHRA is a far different place now.

WS

Agree NHRA is way different. Just not the same anymore.

[EZ Nova]

It was before my time as I'm only 54 at this time. Was into Mopars as my first cars and locally Mopars were king. My 1st car was the '68 GTX convert clone. BUT second was a legit '68 GTS 340 4 sp car. Had both when I was 18.

So I talked to a lot of the older guys that ran these cars new on the street and track. The 340 was usually considered the fastest SB around. There were 5 '66L79 Chevy II's and there was usually 1 that had work that would beat a 340 mopar. The rest were usually a couple cars behind. Dusters seem to work better then the Darts from what I heard.

LD340 intake and headers n gears would wake these up some nicely too.

[RALLY]

It was before my time as I'm only 54 at this time. Was into Mopars as my first cars and locally Mopars were king. My 1st car was the '68 GTX convert clone. BUT second was a legit '68 GTS 340 4 sp car. Had both when I was 18.

So I talked to a lot of the older guys that ran these cars new on the street and track. The 340 was usually considered the fastest SB around. There were 5 '66L79 Chevy II's and there was usually 1 that had work that would beat a 340 mopar. The rest were usually a couple cars behind. Dusters seem to work better then the Darts from what I heard.

LD340 intake and headers n gears would wake these up some nicely too.

Dont know but it seemed like the Dusters were a heavier car than the Darts.

[Lee Stewart]

Dont know but it seemed like the Dusters were a heavier car than the Darts.

Not by much. 1970 Duster 340 4 speed Curb Weight: 3307. 1969 Swinger 340 curb weight: 3274 pounds.

[John Brown]

Had to dig out my NHRA Stock Car Classification Guide and see how they compared. Both of my sheets are dated 1971.

1970 Dodge Dart Swinger 340 275 horsepower 10.11 pounds/horsepower. 3133 pounds.

* Today, automatics are factored 10.48, stick 11.15.


1970 Plymouth Duster 340 275 horsepower 10.17 pounds/horsepower. 3109 pounds.

* Today, automatics are factored 10.40, stick 11.07 pounds/horsepower.


I believe NHRA uses shipping weights.

That means Darts were rated at 310 hp in 70 and Dusters were rated at 306 hp. Today it's 299 for automatics, 281 for sticks, same for both brands.

[RALLY]

Had to dig out my NHRA Stock Car Classification Guide and see how they compared. Both of my sheets are dated 1971.

1970 Dodge Dart Swinger 340 275 horsepower 10.11 pounds/horsepower. 3133 pounds.

* Today, automatics are factored 10.48, stick 11.15.


1970 Plymouth Duster 340 275 horsepower 10.17 pounds/horsepower. 3109 pounds.

* Today, automatics are factored 10.40, stick 11.07 pounds/horsepower.


I believe NHRA uses shipping weights.

That means Darts were rated at 310 hp in 70 and Dusters were rated at 306 hp. Today it's 299 for automatics, 281 for sticks, same for both brands.

Interesting facts how the horsepower numbers are factored these days. NHRA is losing interest among the fans and racers these days.

[Arrowsmith]

Sigh....here we go again...

"and locally Mopars were king"

"So I talked to a lot of the older guys that ran these cars new on the street and track. The 340 was usually considered the fastest SB around. There were 5 '66L79 Chevy II's and there was usually 1 that had work that would beat a 340 mopar. The rest were usually a couple cars behind. Dusters seem to work better then the Darts from what I heard.....

Just L-O-L.

[Lee Stewart]

I went to an exclusive college in MA: Babson. It was a rich kid's school. The kids of Captains Of Industry went there. So there were all kinds of brand new muscle cars: Boss 302s, Boss 429s, L78 Chevelles, Z/28s, L71 Corvettes, Charger R/Ts and even Edsel Ford's custom built by Holman and Moody 1970 Boss 351 . . . and one Black/Black with White Stripe Swinger 340. Only 1 option: Posi. Rear. The owner's name was Randy and he was like me: not a rich kid, but he knew an awful lot about cars. Yes the car was modified but only what we could see from the outside: headers hanging down and hood pins but with no pins: small locks. He helped pay his tuition street racing for money. No one in school was ever given a chance to look under the hood and he refused to say what gears were in the rear end. Only one car on campus was able to beat him: 1969 SCJ Mach 1 with 4.30 gears.

His car was stolen three times in less than 6 months. The first two times it was recovered almost immediately so there was no damage. The 3rd time it was gone for over a month. When it was recovered the entire front of the car was missing along with the engine and trans. Everything from the firewall forward was gone. So he took the insurance money, used what he needed to pay off his tuition and with the rest he bought a "beater." When we asked him, now that the car was gone, what was under the hood, his only reply was "it wasn't stock."

He once gave me a ride in it: jumped on 1st gear: I was slammed back so fast I thought I was going to wind up in the back seat. I swear the front end lifted because the horizon disappeared.

[GrumpyJeff]

I went to an exclusive college in MA: Babson. It was a rich kid's school. The kids of Captains Of Industry went there. So there were all kinds of brand new muscle cars: Boss 302s, Boss 429s, L78 Chevelles, Z/28s, L71 Corvettes, Charger R/Ts and even Edsel Ford's custom built by Holman and Moody 1970 Boss 351 . . . and one Black/Black with White Stripe Swinger 340. Only 1 option: Posi. Rear. The owner's name was Randy and he was like me: not a rich kid, but he knew an awful lot about cars. Yes the car was modified but only what we could see from the outside: headers hanging down and hood pins but with no pins: small locks. He helped pay his tuition street racing for money. No one in school was ever given a chance to look under the hood and he refused to say what gears were in the rear end. Only one car on campus was able to beat him: 1969 SCJ Mach 1 with 4.30 gears.

His car was stolen three times in less than 6 months. The first two times it was recovered almost immediately so there was no damage. The 3rd time it was gone for over a month. When it was recovered the entire front of the car was missing along with the engine and trans. Everything from the firewall forward was gone. So he took the insurance money, used what he needed to pay off his tuition and with the rest he bought a "beater." When we asked him, now that the car was gone, what was under the hood, his only reply was "it wasn't stock."

He once gave me a ride in it: jumped on 1st gear: I was slammed back so fast I thought I was going to wind up in the back seat. I swear the front end lifted because the horizon disappeared.

love theses type of stories !!!! thanks for sharing

[EZ Nova]

Dont know but it seemed like the Dusters were a heavier car than the Darts.

I believe the Darts were a tad lighter, but not enough to really consider. We at the shop have found the Dusters work pretty well for some reason. We have a few customers with SB Dusters, and there pretty impressive. The best is a W7 equipt 411 incher that runs low 8's with DOT tire and thru mufflers, and has been 7.60's on 1 stage @ 2950lbs.

The LA series can be a very stout piece even today.

[markinnaples]

The Duster/Demon/(later)Dart fastback body style, IMHO, is very underrated. My buddy had a '71 Demon with a T/A 340 Six Pack that he redid but never got running right before he sold it. The day he sold that was a bummer. There was a red Demon with a black Super Stock hood on it (I'm guessing that's what they called that hood with that huge wide scoop) that ran around our area that sounded absolutely nasty, but never got close enough to see what he was running. I imagine a decent 440 in that body style would be a rocket. Too bad you don't see many of that body style these days.

[Hotrodpaul]

Here's a nice one that with a little work, would be quite fast on the street:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-Dodge-Dart-Swinger/193698521639?hash=item2d1954e227:g:x2AAAOSwo4pfe9M i

Drop in a late model Hellcat hemi, 700-800 Hp and leave it the way it looks, with better rear tires of course!

[PeteLeathersac]

'

Cool story Lee and thanks for sharing that!
I like Mopars too but admit I'd choose a subframe/coil Nova over K-frame/torsion Dart every time.
:beers:

.

[EZ Nova]

Here's a nice one that with a little work, would be quite fast on the street:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-Dodge-Dart-Swinger/193698521639?hash=item2d1954e227:g:x2AAAOSwo4pfe9M i

Drop in a late model Hellcat hemi, 700-800 Hp and leave it the way it looks, with better rear tires of course!

I would buy a R5 P7 ex nascsr mopar and swap cam. Many believe the mopar were the most powerful nascar motors when they ran. But were pretty much a rebadged TRD deal.

[RALLY]

I believe the Darts were a tad lighter, but not enough to really consider. We at the shop have found the Dusters work pretty well for some reason. We have a few customers with SB Dusters, and there pretty impressive. The best is a W7 equipt 411 incher that runs low 8's with DOT tire and thru mufflers, and has been 7.60's on 1 stage @ 2950lbs.

The LA series can be a very stout piece even today.

I am guessing the Dusters had better weight transfer than the Darts. I know back in the early Pro Stock Days in NHRA had a lot of Dusters, Demons with Hemi power. Some quick cars.

[Lee Stewart]

https://i.postimg.cc/T3JJx5Hg/dodge-dart-swinger-340-9.jpg (https://postimg.cc/nXMDYrxh)

https://i.postimg.cc/g0cq2cf5/dodge-demon-340-gss-coupe-12.jpg (https://postimages.cc/)

Which one looks more aerodynamically styled?

[earntaz]

I would buy a R5 P7 ex nascsr mopar and swap cam. Many believe the mopar were the most powerful nascar motors when they ran. But were pretty much a rebadged TRD deal.

So you're saying the TuRD motor was a MoPar or the MoPar was a TuRD motor?

[EZ Nova]

So you're saying the TuRD motor was a MoPar or the MoPar was a TuRD motor?

I'm on another site with the engine guy from Hendrick's, Warp Speed. He said that, and a couple other engine guys who work with them said the same thing, few subtle changes as they had to make some differences. They had to do some changes for part numbers, but thought it was TRD that the based were based off.

Anyway, the few guys that have worked on the the newer Nascar stuff said the mopar was the one to get for a street strip deal.

[EZ Nova]

I also thought the 70 Duster's we shorter wheelbase then the '69 Darts??

[EZ Nova]

So you're saying the TuRD motor was a MoPar or the MoPar was a TuRD motor?

The "search" deal on that site SUCKS!!! So if I can talk to Warp and get clarification I will.

[GrumpyJeff]

I am guessing the Dusters had better weight transfer than the Darts. I know back in the early Pro Stock Days in NHRA had a lot of Dusters, Demons with Hemi power. Some quick cars.

being a Hardcore Chevy guy, I still think the early Dusters/Demons where some of the toughest looking Pro Stockers ever !!!

[RALLY]

being a Hardcore Chevy guy, I still think the early Dusters/Demons where some of the toughest looking Pro Stockers ever !!!

Agree Grumpy, i too am a Chevy diehard guy. Hated Fords, Mopars all the rest when i was younger. But lets give credit when due, the Mopars always had a place in my heart. Never liked their styling much. Own a 62 Plymouth Valiant with a slant six, three on the tree but that car had some zip, loved running around with that car way back when. Any who yes agree, the Hemi Powered Pro Stockers Duster/Demons were tough looking for sure. I saw some Dusters in the early 70's in Pro Stock with 340 cubic inch powerplants race, very quick cars.

[MarcDant]

So you're saying the TuRD motor was a MoPar or the MoPar was a TuRD motor?

The toyota has a different cam tunnel design ,more cam bearing mains ,20 head bolts, front mount distributor ect.Different from mopar.
as far as nova to dart comparison maybe a 68 L79 [half a point of xtra compression] would hang or better the 68 dart
[13 extra ci ]. Just my .002 cents.

[Vortecpro]

18 degree heads also.

yes

[x33rs]

You see quite a few of the little 340's at the PS drags. Gives you a good idea what a well prepared stock 340 is capable of.
They get paired with big blocks fairly often. Pretty good running little cars, I've always admired them.

Here are just a couple examples.

https://youtu.be/q6eo7OgBcW8

https://youtu.be/SOonwztXUL8

https://youtu.be/o5ht7nDXnAA

[RS_COPO_Canuck]

My first car at 16 was a '69 Swinger 340.
Had a bunch of A bodies since.
I have 2 Darts right now.
A '69 Swinger 340 and a '69 M-code 440 GTS from Mr. Norm's.
Hard to keep the 440 pointed straight!
The 340's also handled pretty good by back in the day standards.

[RALLY]

You see quite a few of the little 340's at the PS drags. Gives you a good idea what a well prepared stock 340 is capable of.
They get paired with big blocks fairly often. Pretty good running little cars, I've always admired them.

Here are just a couple examples.

https://youtu.be/q6eo7OgBcW8

https://youtu.be/SOonwztXUL8

https://youtu.be/o5ht7nDXnAA

Agree those 340 Dart Swingers were quick. Hope to get one some day.

[EZ Nova]

My first car at 16 was a '69 Swinger 340.
Had a bunch of A bodies since.
I have 2 Darts right now.
A '69 Swinger 340 and a '69 M-code 440 GTS from Mr. Norm's.
Hard to keep the 440 pointed straight!
The 340's also handled pretty good by back in the day standards.

Like to know more about your M code. Will be in the market for one in a yr or 2.

[RS_COPO_Canuck]

Like to know more about your M code. Will be in the market for one in a yr or 2.
I had a bunch of pics on my work PC that crashed. I'll dig some up.
I found this so-so one from a magazine article...