Original Yenko Torque Thrust Wheel Size/Back Spacing

[AWSM502]

Hello Everyone,

What was the size/backspacing of the Torque Thrust wheels that came on some of the '69 Yenko Camaros?. How about the tire size?

I have also seen cars with both "straight" and "curved" spokes - which are correct?

If the original style is impossible to come by, what's the most popular/closest looking replacement from American Racing Wheels?

Now that I am looking for one, I can't find a pic of an Orange Yenko with these wheels. I can find examples of every other color, but not Orange. Can anyone suggest a link to a pic?

Thanks in advance,

Keith
'69 RS/SS 502

[T Billigen]

Original Atlas wheels were 15X7 with a straight spoke. I had a set on a Yenko Chevelle I recently sold. I doubt if you will find a set though. The best thing to do is check all the swap meets and try and find a nice set of early American Racing wheels with the straight spoke. I am also looking for a set for my hugger orange Yenko Camaro! I think the tire size is E70X15 for camaros and the do repop these. I will try to e-mail you a picture of a Atlas wheel for reference.

[T Billigen]

tried to send you some pics but you come as "not a known member" will try later.

[T Billigen]

Just looked at the wheels on that website, I think the wheels in the cast version may be close! I am looking into them myself! Thanks Stefano

[AWSM502]

Thanks for the replys.

My e-mail is awsm502@compuserve.com, if you could send me the pic's it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again!

Keith

[whitetop]

The American straight spoke wheels are still somewhat commmon at swap meets, especially the smaller shows. Terry Vaughn in Washington state has ton's of these wheels for sale.
Dave

[RVOR]

Vintage wheel works is currently working on reproducing the American Torque Thrust wheel
from the 60's. It will be 15X7 with the same off-set offered during that period. Vintage claims it will be approx. 6 months before it is offerd. They will update their web site as it progresses www.vintagewheelworks.com. (http://www.vintagewheelworks.com.)
Phone number is 562-906-8600. Cost will be approx. $800.00 for the set. This may be a good alternative to finding an original set.

Ron

[Stefano]

Do The Vintage Wheels come in 15", I thought that they were only going to make 16"?
I ordered a couple of sets of Team III's vintage 5 (?) cast wheels. They use the original molds from the 1960s, they differ in that they are two piece to vary the offset and they say no problem with 15" and factory disk brakes.
I'll post some pics in a few weeks when they arrive.

[T Billigen]

I e-mailed Vintage Wheels to see if they make the 15 inch. They only avertise the 16 inch, will let you know when I get a response from them.

[69L89396]

How do the new "American Torg-Thrust D" wheels compare with the older styles that were on the Yenko's? Are the spokes the same and what about center caps?

[Edited by 69L89396 (03-24-2002 at 11:39 PM).]

[AWSM502]

I would like to thank everyone who sent in the pics.

Looks like I have everything I need, but the backspacing is still an open question.

Thanks again everyone,

Keith

[Stefano]

The closest looking wheel to the Yenko Wheels available today are the ones made by Team 3 www.etwheels.com (http://www.etwheels.com) , in my opinion.

[Edited by Stefano (03-24-2002 at 12:48 PM).]

[T Billigen]

The new torq-thrust rims completely different than the Atlas. The torq-thrust has a curved spoke, the Atlas has a straight spoke. The center caps on the Atlas were aluminum the new ones are plastic, also the spokes on the tor-thrust are much beafier and the casting itself is much smoother and without any flash extentions, The Atlas, as a whole, was of poorer quality.

[T Billigen]

I got a reply from Vintage Wheel, they said the 15/7 old stle American Racing wheel will be available in 3 to 4 months.

[Stefano]

Cool, will it be authentic ?

[T Billigen]

Thats the claim! Time will tell.

[whitetop]

Stefano
I have yet to find a reproduced speed part that are exactly as the originals. Personally I would rather have a mint used piece vs. an incorrect new piece. Terry Vaughan has probably the largest selection of original AR wheels in the country. I've bought some stuff from him in the past and he doesn't sell junk. He has the 15x7's with straight spokes
His ebay seller name is vintage-whls He is out of Ellensburg Washington.
Dave

[Edited by whitetop (03-25-2002 at 06:21 PM).]

[T Billigen]

I talked to Terry today, he does not have a set of original American wheels for chevy at this time.

[bkhpah]

Dave I agree 100%. Nothing is like the genuine part...BKH

[T Billigen]

I agree also, the genuine thing is always the first option if you can find a nice set.

[68l30]

I just finished a set of Americans,old style straight spoke,and the total price is close to what a new set would cost.It does take some time to find a good set to start with,but the wait is worth the results.You will always know the reproduction wheels are just that.....


Steve

[JoeC]

There are some nice old pictures on this web site that may be of interest. One shows a close up of an original American wheel. Also nice Corvette and Camaro period pictures.

http://www.67fso.com

[69L89396]

What is the correct backset for these wheels?

[AWSM502]

Hello Everyone,

Well, it has been a full two years since I posted this originally, and I still have not purchased my wheels yet!

I was just wondering if there were any fresh opinions on new wheel manufactures, and the new American Racing TTO's.

Also, backspacing is still an open issue, what are you all running with the 15x7 TTD's or Vintage Wheel 5 Spokes?

Is anyone running the 15x8.5's with 255/60's? I run 15x8's with 4.5" backspacing with 255/60's on the back of my '69 SS and they fit perfect, but that combination does not seem to be offered in an off-the-shelf TTD style wheel.

One last request: Does anyone have a good photo of a black and white '69 with TTD's?

Thanks and Regards!

[Supercar_Kid]

The new American TTO's are somewhat more appropriate looking than the current modern Torq Thrust wheel, but they're still a far cry from a vintage wheel in my opinion. The "Torq-Thrust Original" aka TTO does have straight spokes and an as cast center, however they also have the larger hub and center cap to fit later model vehicles, as well as the taper seat lug recesses as opposed to the shank and washer style of the 60's. On a vintage car they certainly look better than modern dull gray curved spokes, but they aren't going to fool anyone who knows their vintage stuff. I guess that can be said for any modern reproduction part though. Personally, I'd try my best to find a set of nice straight peaked spoke Americans or a comparable copy and have them professionally restored. They're hard to find, and more expensive in the long run than a modern wheel for sure, but they aren't impossible to obtain. There's just no beating vintage wheel on a vintage car. Happy hunting.

[waynemiller]

I bought a set of PS Engineering Wheels. They are in Cali, have to get you the number later. His 5 spokes are correct for the 60's. I have them on my 69 Z, 15x4 front 15x8.5 with 4.5 b/s. They look awesome, I have a 275-60-15 on the rear. The wheels have no wheel weights on them, no vibration at all! chechout my website on fotki.com look under search and type in blownz I have several pics there of the wheels. They are powdercoater silver on the spokes and polished outers.

[Supercar_Kid]

While an attractive wheel in their own right, the PS Engineering wheels are hardly a match for the Atlas wheels used by Yenko or even early Americans for that matter. The spokes are curved away from the calipers and then inward towards the rim, like a "D" and hence the term D spokes. Atlas mags and early "straight spoke" Americans are not like this. Their spokes are straight from hub to rim, and while American wheels came in many variations including peaked and rounded spokes, the Yenko Atlas mags have a very distinct peaked spoke. Also, it's hard to tell from the pics but the PS Engineering wheels appear to be of a 2 piece design, like a modern Torq Thrust 2. While a 2 piece wheel allows for unlimited configurations of front and backspacing, it doesn't provide that authentic vintage look. There's just no faking an old wheel IMO. Keep hunting, vintage 15"s are a little tougher to find but if you're patient a set will turn up.

[Belair62]

SK ,what he really needs is backspacing opinions...I know your bro went thru some set-ups on his Camaro to get an idea of what width/backspace may be best for Camaro...you can put about anything on a Chevelle but that front end of a Camaro needs the right spacing...

[Pantera]

What about the keystone mags of that era? Does nobody ever use them?


Also I think I have a pair of Ansen real knockoff gray spokes that I used to run on my 62 V8 Nova that I used to street race. Would they be of any value? I was kinda thinking of using them on the front of my L-78 69 Nova. I know that they are period correct as that is when I was using them till I put a straight axle under the Deuce and they would not fit anymore.

Pantera

[TDW]

SK...If I email you a pic of a TT wheel, would you be able to identify it for me? I don't know how to put a picture here. Thanks

[Supercar_Kid]

I'll sure do my best. Send it to me at ErikBarr@aol.com

[TDW]

The pics are on the way. Thank you very much....

[TDW]

Erik...Very educational email. Thanks again.

[Supercar_Kid]

Anytime Tony, glad I could help.

[Chris396]

I have 15X7's on my car and it's black with a white stripe.

http://community.webshots.com/album/66411434vZZvus

[Belair62]

Any contact anywhere in the front end when you turn Chris ?

[Chris396]

Never on the road, but you have to watch it when you turn in a driveway if it has a big dip. I replaced the springs with slightly stiffer ones and the front dropped about an inch.

[AWSM502]

Chris, that is a beautiful car!

Do those rims have off-the-shelf backspacing? What tire size are you running?

Thanks for the input!

Keith

[427TJ]

Take note that the wheels on Chris396's black '69 convert appear to be the modern Torque Thrust D's with gray painted spokes.

[Chris396]

Yeah those are the modern wheels. I repainted the centers with the rally wheel silver paint about 4 years ago.

[BillD]

Is there anyone here running original 15" torque thrusts on the front of a 67-68 Camaro with original calipers. I bought a set of Torque Thrust D's (15x6 front, 15x7 rear)to run a few years ago, until I could find a set of originals to restore. I gave up on the origianl idea when I found that the D's would not work with the front disc brakes without a spacer. Since I believed the D's to be more forgiving of disk brake calipers than the originals, I sort of shelved the idea of the real things figuring they would not work. Any help would be appreciated?

[Belair62]

Bill...the ORIGINAL D's were made to clear those calipers...

[berger]

anyone know what type of magnesium rim yenko offered as a option of 67 , were they spider fly wheels, thanks. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[BillD]

Bob thanks. I had my information backwards as usual. I guess I will get back in the hunt for a set of originals.

[Belair62]

They are pretty tough to find and getting very pricey Bill...The only ones that made them were American which had all the usual American info cast into the backside and also a no name Japanese wheel...

[BillD]

Bob, What isn't pricey when it comes to this stuff? The kids are breaking me with College tuition. So, I convince myself that I deserve to waste money on the cars.

[Belair62]

Yep....I agree...spend it now....after they get out of school they should be able to make their own !!!

[AWSM502]

Chris396,

What's your tire size man, your killing me!!!!??????

Just for the record, I'm not building an original car, so I am just looking for TTD/5 spokes that are of the same style as the original one's Yenko offered (they need not be 100% authentic).

I'm a bit disappointed by the lack of back space options, it looks like you have to run a pretty narrow tire on a '69 to run with the off-the-shelf TTD with 3 3/4" back spacing. What tire are you guys running who have have the modern TTD's, TTO's, or Vintage Wheel 5-spokes?

Thanks for all the posts and comments - choosing wheels is about as agonizing as choosing paint.

Thanks!

Keith

[Chris396]

Sorry. I haven't been online They are 205 60's but you can go bigger if the front end is the stock ride height.

[BillD]

Not original TT's, but any opinions on ET II's? Although I don't know if the ET II's are really a vintage wheel or a later reincarnation. I do know that ET's are an original wheel as we had them on a 68 camaro in 68, and they worked with disc brakes with a 15" wheel. Here's a pic of a set. Ok, no picture as the file is too big

[BillD]

lets try this for the picture

[BillD]

I can pick up a restored set of Appliance torque thrust style wheels. Any opinions on these? Or am I better off waiting for the americans? I want to run 15x6 and 15 X 7

[BillD]

Here's a photo of the appliance wheels, a set will be close to $1000 with shipping across country, and with plastic american caps. Opinions?

[berger]

bill somebody here has a killer set of kelsey hayes rims, dated 69 for sale for around the same price, I don't think they get any nicer than those and they are 15x6, you should give them a look first.. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[Belair62]

Bill...you need to make sure they clear the early calipers before you buy them...

[BillD]

The wheels are supposed to clear the calipers. My primary concern, other than making sure they will fit, is the quality of these wheels. Were they a cheap alternative from day 1?

[Belair62]

In a sense they were...I think American was the original for that spoke design....are you sure they fit the early caliper ?

[BillD]

There is a great wheel link http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=88156&page=0&view=collaps ed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1&PHPSESSID=

that was just put up, that describes a history of American wheels and also mentions the Appliance brand wheels that I am considering. I almost think I am better off waiting for the real thing, or going with the reproduction TTO that imitates the original wheel, or just stick with the TTD's that I occasionally run for a different look

[Belair62]

A little perspective on spoke shapes between a TT D and a straight TT...the D's were for early calipers...

http://img46.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Belair62/wheels/TT_wheels_004.jpg
http://img46.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Belair62/wheels/TT_wheels_005.jpg
http://img46.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Belair62/wheels/TT_wheels_006.jpg

[BillD]

As is usually the case, now that I see what the original wheels look like, my reproduction TT wheels (which I had thought looked pretty good) now look like.......well a reproduction. Bob, thanks for the pictures as it really points out the difference between the D's and straight spoke wheels.

[JoeG]

[ QUOTE ]
As is usually the case, now that I see what the original wheels look like, my reproduction TT wheels (which I had thought looked pretty good)

[/ QUOTE ]----

They Still Do-----------------

[BillD]

Bob, Here is a pic of the back of the Japan wheels, which look like they will work? I have a pic of the front if you are interested.

[BillD]

Another try,

[BillD]

Bob, here is the front of the wheel, thanks

[Belair62]

That is a great looking wheel and you usually can tell the ones from Japan as they had very dep countersinking in the lug hole area....now I am not POSITIVE those will fit the early caliper Bill....the backs of the spokes are cut it looks like but I just don't know for sure...the D was made specifically to work with the early calipers.Have you tried them on the car ???

[berger]

bill there is a set of appliance ones restored on ebay now, they ain't cheap but they look the same.. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[Belair62]

Post the auction number so we can see them

[Paul_S]

I believe the Appliance wheels "say" Japan on the back with the deep lug pocket for a washer. So, yeah they're probably the same.

Paul

[BillD]

Bob, they look like they will work to me, but we don't know for sure. The person selling them knows that they will work on a 69 Camaro, but says the only way to find out for sure about a 68 is to try them. Also I can only locate 15 x 7's which are fine for the back, but I wanted 6's for the front. They are going on E 7o's in the front and G 60's in the back. But I guess I could run 7's all around, although I am concerned about rubbing on the front.

[BillD]

This may be the auction that Berger mentioned. They are not the wheels that I am chasing, although they sure do look like a nice set. Also the buy it now price is for 4 of the wheels, not 6 as pictured. Nice looking wheels.

[whitetop]

BillD

Every Appliance ad I have ever seen they mention their wheels will work with calipers. Matter of fact their ads had a byline that read something like "our wheels will always work with caliper equiped cars always have always will" or something to that effect.

Appliance was a very quality built wheel and used a good grade of aluminum (they polish out just like chrome). The machining was second to none. And yes the Japan cast in the back is one way of identifying an Appliance wheel.

I don't know why Appliance never really took off-bad distributorship? Some claim the deep inset lug nut was another reason in that it turned people off. I've also heard they had an ugly cap design which also contributed.
Dave

[Supercar_Kid]

Appliance Torq-Thrust copies came with a center cap very similar to their American Racing counterparts, it simply had a raised A/P logo on the center. The recessed lug holes are a defining characteristic of an Appliance wheel, but not all A/P castings had them. In my personal opinion, Appliance built one of the best looking 5 spoke wheels going, but it seems they're remembered more for the late 70s atrocities seen in the attached ad. 1979 A/P Wheels Ad (http://www.thepontiactransampage.com/images/appliance.jpg)

[berger]

bill I don't think the link worked to the auction, I think I actually found them by entering atlas in the ebay search engine, the 4 chevy ones he has , our two rear 8.5x15, and two front 15x7, then he has another two mopar lug ones at 15x7, so you get to choose what 4 you want, they all look nos, and he put american caps on them to boot, he said they're all over 35yrs old, never damaged, 1500 buy it price. A nice alternative I think. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[Jeff H]

Link Ebay Appliance Wheels (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=43955&item=7909087 329&rd=1)

[whitetop]

[ QUOTE ]
but it seems they're remembered more for the late 70s atrocities seen in the attached ad.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah... almost as bad as the atrocities the wheel manufactureres are bringing out today.

Joe
The ugly caps I was refering to are the push in type that went on their slots and "wire mags"
Dave

[BillD]

I forgot to put the link in to ebay, but I see Jeff already has. I am pretty certain that I am going to pull the trigger on the wheels I found, as the price really seems fair (at least compared to the set on ebay). I just have to decide on center caps. Actually, the repro TTD's I have now I run without caps and I like the look, and I didn't like the plastic caps that came with them.

[BillD]

Of course if I really wanted to stand out in a crowd I could select one of the wheels that Supercar kid shared with us. I bet I could get a deal on any one of those styles

[Jeff H]

I don't think the 15x8.5 wheels on Ebay will fit the rear of a first gen Camaro with the 3.75" backspacing they have. I think you need at least 4.5" and probably 4.75" of backspacing to fit the rear. My 16x8 Vintage Wheelworks torq thrust style wheels fit 255/50 tires with 4.5" of backspacing but it's close on the qtr lip.

[BillD]

The plan is for 15 X 7 on all 4 corners, I wanted 6's front and 7's rear, but can't find that

[Steve Shauger]

Are the dragmaster torque thrust wheels close to the atlas torque thrust look???

[Belair62]

They are very very similar....in fact in the TT oic I posted...the straight spoke is actually an International Dragmaster.......Bill......68 calipers are harder to fit than 69's...better check them...the 15x7 D's have a very special offset and I am pretty sure they will work on a Camaro but I've never stried...if you look at the picture I posted you can see it's a different offset

[BillD]

The person I am buying these from is going to try them on an early Corvette caliper, and then we will try to find a 68 Camaro with the correct calipers in his area to give the wheel a try. If we can't find a 67-68 camaro by him we will ship one wheel to me as a trial to make sure before we ship all of them. I think they will work, but just want to make sure before I get them. I would rather be out a few $ on freight then have 4 wheels I can't use at the moment. I already have too many parts hanging around that I could use someday on something

[AWSM502]

Well, I have finally picked Team III Wheels Classic ET 5 Spokes, due to the straight spoke design and the fact that they seem to be the only manufacture who can make the wheels in the backspacing I need. Unfortunately, they take 6 weeks to get.

If anyone has had negative experience with this company or product, please let me know.

Thanks again for everyone's very informative input.

Keith
AWSM502

[427TJ]

I agree, the ET straight spokes in the "as-cast" finish look really good. You could probably mount American center caps on them and really throw people for a loop.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[BillD]

I just came across this on ebay, it appears that Appliance made there own "D" spoke wheel

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2485271563&catego ry=34209

In any event I have located a complete set of vintage American D spokes, in the sizes I want, sent the money and am waiting for them to arrive

[BillD]

I am reviving this old post as I am just getting around to putting these old torque thrust D's on one of the cars. My question is this. Did the the D's center spokes come painted or were they natural aluminum? If painted does anyone know the correct gray. Also, I need to find the correct metal caps. I am also going to post a photo of what I have (I hope). No luck on the photo as it is too large. Mine have natural (not painted) spokes. Also as to tires I have the repro Good Year E70's but I am thinking about a repro road race tire, if anyone knows if something is available. thanks

[BillD]

Here's a photo to go along with the previous post. The plastic caps have to go. I have to try to find some original metal caps. I also like the looks of running them without center caps.

[Belair62]

Bill are the caps you are using the new plastic ones for the old wheels ? Or the new caps for the new wheels ??? The screw pattern one the latter doesn't line up real good on the old wheels...the metal caps I have are die cast I think and don't have the little ridge where the sticker goes...

[TDW]

Belair...I need 2 of the early metal caps like you describe. Are the ones you have for sale?

[BillD]

Bob: The caps I have came with the wheels so I don't know exactly what I have. But they line up well so I believe they are new caps for the old wheels. I went through so much trouble and expense to get the real wheels, that plastic caps just are not good enough.

[Supercar_Kid]

Bill, I have a set of American Torq Thrusts (straight rounded spokes) that were purchased new in 1969, and they had plastic caps on them since day one. Even had their flat head, bare steel screws still holding them on. It's entirely possible that metal caps were available separately, but there's no shame in running the "new" plastic caps on your D spokes, they're as era correct as the wheels themselves. Both Yenko's Atlas mags, and International Dragmasters came new with metal caps, but American Racing has been using plastic caps on their Torq Thrusts since at least the late 60's.

[BillD]

That is great information about the caps. I would have never guessed that they came with plastic caps 35 years ago. Do you know if the spokes on the originals were natural aluminum or were they painted? Thanks for all the help on this.

[tom406]

Here's a listing of some other center cap options on the Vintage Wheel Works site (their center cap holes match the newer American pattern) They make a nice wheel in a couple of styles and many diameters (15-17").

http://www.vintagewheelworks.com/centercaps.html

TOM