4 speeds in monte carlo's?

[k92]

Has there ever been a documented 1970 or '71 SS 454 Monte Carlo with a 4 speed?

[SS427]

No.

I am quite sure there is one out there but no one has ever come up with documentation of such.
Rick

[69LM1]

None Believed made. (www.firstgenerationmontecarlo.com). There were however 402 Big Block Monte's made with the 4 speed. These 402 cars were not anything special as far as SS or anything, but they did get the 12bolt rears, and if auto, the 400 tranny. Also, all monte's were LS5's (and the HP rating was rated lower than in the Chevelle's, but the same LS5?), but no documented LS6's.
I just got a 70 Monte SS, # match, Bucket seat car. Awesome to say the least!

In 72 the SS was discontinued, and they had a "Custom" package which you could get, but with a 350, 400, BB402 or BB454. I *think* you could get the 454 all the way to 1973-4.

Rich

[bilede]

454 through '75 I thought.

[69LM1]

There's a awesome 70SS on ebay right now. Man, these cars are priced right. One of the best deals around on Big Block GM's!
70 SS on Ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1970-Chevrolet-Monte-Carlo-SS454_W0QQitemZ4626131914QQcategoryZ6171QQrdZ1QQcm dZViewItem)

And here is a 3 speed. That's a new one on me.
3 Speed Monte on Ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1970-Monte-Carlo-RARE-3-Speed-1-of-only-545_W0QQitemZ4626107984QQcategoryZ6171QQrdZ1QQcmdZ ViewItem)

too bad it is a colum shift!

[gtaa9]

1970 Monte SS 454 LS5 4speed-3
1970 Monte SS 454 LS6-10
1971 Monte SS 454 LS6-7

This is the information I have on these cars.

[William]

I lived near a body shop in 1970 and became friendly with the owner and his sons. The older son bought a new 1970 SS454/4-speed Monte. I recall he immediately swapped out the tires for G60 x 15s. I saw the car numerous times and was there when it sucked the headlights out of a friends' 383/auto 69 Road Runner. Suprisingly fast car.

[k92]

Although I have not yet seen the magazine, a buddy of mine says in a new issue of a muscle car magazine they show a supposed all original SS 454 4 speed Monte Carlo. I'll try to get the name of the magazine.

[Charley Lillard]

Has anyone ever seen or heard of a real documented 71 Monte LS6 ? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[k92]

Nope

[@wot]

I drove car swaps for a large Chevy dealershp in 1969-1970, and never drove a standard Monte Carlo, and I drove a lot of them. SS, smaLL block, big block - it didn't matter - they were all autos.

[gtaa9]

No I haven't.I also heard that there were a handful of 350 4speeds.Any thoughts on that??

[SUSQ]

As a teenager in the 70's, I test drove a '71 Monte 4-speed with a 350 that was sitting on a local used car lot. It was an absolute stone.

[Schonyenko2]

I had a friend who ordered a white 70 monte with a 350, and a 4spd when he got home from Nam. Only one I ever saw. Had a chevelle console I believe, and a Muncie shifter.

[69LM1]

I have seen two manual's that had backup docs (build sheets) and maybe a handful more that were 350sb and 400sb's and no docs. One of the ones with the docs was a 402BB car.

According to the experts at FirstGenMC, no one has ever seen verifiable proof on any LS6 MC's or 4 Speed SS's. Plenty of "I had this friend....." or "I have secret inside knowledge of". Not saying it was not possible, but it seems like someone would still have some docs somewhere on one of these cars. Many of the 402BB cars, in fact a very high percentage, had the tach's, buckets, console and 4 speeds. They are often passed off as SS's. However, they DO NOT have the 2 things that prove the MC SS's:

1. The "Boxed" rear control Arms / Bigger Sway bar
2. The "load leveler" system (GM Air Shock type system)

Contrary to most beliefs, MC SS's did not get Tachs or Bucket Seats standard. These were upgrade items. My current SS has buckets/console (Chevelle type, but w wood grain), but no tach dash. I have seen many SS's with bench seats and build sheets (SS= Z20).

[ohhawk]

According to the Chevrolet SS Red Book....

1970 - Yes, suffix code would be CGW
1971 - Yes, suffix code would be CPA but goes on to note that the TH auto was standard and a 4 sp. manual MAY have been available

According to Colvin's Chevrolet By The Numbers.....

1970 - NA, with the note of "to date, no documented original 4-sp SS Monte Carlos have been found. Original GM order forms indicate that SS Monte Carlos could only be built with the TH400 automatic"

1971 - shows only available under some config with Monte Carlo that had a 454/425 motor but not available with the 454/365

Looks like uncertainty still remains to the ability to answer your question with facts.

[69LM1]

And here's a Monte Convert for you (No they did not make any factoty convrts either, but some people make them).

http://www.firstgenerationmontecarlo.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=003010

[ANDY M]

What about the "3 on the Tree" on ebay? How would they know that it's "one of..."? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
Looks real, but why get one when the auto was standard? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

[6t7 camaro]

The magazine in question is the May issue of Musclecar Enthusiast. Black on black 1971 454 4spd.

[ZL1.FUN]

I posted this question a wile back wondering the same thing about the rare hope, of a ls6 monte, if some one could find the link and add it it would be great
1970 Monte Carlo INFO -_ LS6_-_ Supercar/Musclecar Discussion ZL1.FUN 01/23/06 07:33 PM

[69LM1]

Does the magazine article have any backup or proof it was originally a 4 speed car?
Rich

[scott s]

How about a 70 monte carlo fact bb 4spd 12 bolt posi with f41 suspension,tach&gauges,console,buckets,duel exhaust with -- special paint fully documented and #s matching will be forsale at spring carlisle http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[69LM1]

Right, but I bet it is a 402BB, non ss car though? Although pretty cool anyways.
Rich

[scott s]

Yes its a 402 car they only made 500 or so compared to 3,500
ss cars i believe...and considering probally half are still left thats about 250 cars give or take . I believe these cars are going to take off in price$$$ pretty soon especially the 4 speeds, due to the prices of the ss chevelles and the other big block A bodies there cheap muscle..... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[69LM1]

I agree that the 402's are ripe for a skyrocket in pricing. In fact, they are already jumping up. I am assuming that the stated 500 prod nummber is for 4 speeds? I am sure that there were many more than 500 402's made. Here are the prod numbers from firstgenmc:

1970
Total Production:
Sport Coupe 142,153
SS 454 Package 3,823
Total Monte Carlo Production 145,976

Automatic Level Control (SS only) 3,823
330 hp Turbo-Jet 400 V8 (actually 402 ci) 7,456
360 hp Turbo-Jet 454 V8 (SS only) 3,823
3-Speed Manual 545
4-Speed Manual 1,428

1971
Total Production:
Sport Coupe 126,681
SS 454 Package** 1,919
Total Monte Carlo Production 128,600

300 hp Turbo-Jet 400 V8 (actually 402 ci) 8,633
355 hp Turbo-Jet 454 V8** 1,772
3-Speed Manual Transmission 280
4-Speed Manual Transmission 349



All data courtesy of
http://www.firstgenerationmontecarlo.com/tech/productionnumbers.shtml

Rich

[69LM1]

Ooops, forgot to add, for the conspiricy theorists out there:
<<<<<snip>>>>>>>
* Excludes 16,003 units listed as Canadian imports.
** Why are the SS-454 and 454 production numbers different here? There are a lot of crazy rumors that there were SS cars that did not come with 454 engines. Our stand here at the FGMCC is that the other 147 cars are Canadian built 454's which were not added to the total of 454 engines, but were added to the total number of SS454 cars built.
<<<<end snip>>>>>>>>

[mrrec]

The 3 speed Monte was absolutely built. We made terrible fun of the high school teacher with his green, jacked up Monte with three-on-the-tree.
Dave

[PeteLeathersac]

As a side note and not that anyone here cares for the '78 and up Montes but they built 4-speeds in these too....no idea on production but remember a chum in High School had a new '78 or '79 stick car. .
~ Pete

~ Pete

[flyingn]

About 10 years ago I saw a 19k mile 70 SS with a 4 speed with original sticker.. Yup it was factory.. to bad it was the turd brown with tan interior..

Frank

[SS427]

More importantly, too bad you did not buy that turd brown SS. You might be surprised what that car would be worth today if in fact there were documents to back it up.
Rick

[69LM1]

The magazine monte is being discussed at FGMC, and it seems in the pics that it has a chevelle console (the monte's had faux burl woodgrain, the chevelle's silver). Plus there are several other "issues" with the car and the story. Bad fact checking.

[nova67]

I saw a Forest Green 70 Monte 350 4spd at Brigance Chevy in 70

[ZL1.FUN]

Sorry to interrupt monte talk-- Wile on the topic of elusive car’s, has any one ever herd the possibility of a 1965 L78 -396-375HP El Camino ?

[PeteLeathersac]

Wasn't there something about one only Z-16 Camino....or maybe confusing this w/ the one only Z-16 ragtop??? .

~ Pete

[Bill Pritchard]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry to interrupt monte talk-- Wile on the topic of elusive car’s, has any one ever herd the possibility of a 1965 L78 -396-375HP El Camino ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why not start a new topic for that completely unrelated thought??? I can virtually guarantee you what answer(s) you're going to get, though.

[impalaman]

Back in 1979 i had a 402 4 speed,double black one with 66,000 miles. I was 19 and drunk, and crashed it. I parted it out, still remember that perfect black interior i sold for $75. I still want to throw up when i think of that

[ZL1.FUN]

I apologize for de-railing the monte carlo talk –

[PeteLeathersac]

And me for running with ya'? ~ Pete

[P.J.]

A few years back I was at a drive in resturant when a guy
came over to my car and was admireing it. We got to talking and he told me he had a 70 monticarlo 4 speed that he was parting out and if I was interested in some parts for my car. He told me he had a complete gauge package with the 6500 red line in it and had green numbers. I purchased it
for 25.00 Canadian in 1984 and gave it to my budy who had a 70 chevelle 350 hp 396 as my car came with the 6500 red line. I should of taken the whole car! oH well. I did not see the car and did not ask him if it was an ls6 car.However
I have always susspected as time went on that that car must of been a high horse car.
suprss70

[DaveC68]

Monte production totals via page in GM restoration packet.

first gen totals (http://community.webshots.com/photo/6790755/1006790848025640649BhUaXdJtDK)

[DaveC68]

4 speed production totals via NMCOA.
4 speed totals (http://community.webshots.com/photo/6790755/1006790913025640649GehKfUlNgV)

[DaveC68]

Based on the first page, Monte production totals...I come up with a lower number of 70 402 4 speeds.
Follow along!
production states for 1970
10786 TH400's
we know all 3823 SS used the TH400
that leaves 6963 TH400's
next we know 7456 402's produced
so mate the remaining TH400's to 402's and you're left with 493 402's.... which I deduce were mated to 4 speeds.

making a 1970 402 4 speed production total of 493 http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

[DaveC68]

My 70 4 speed here on SYC (http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/137086/an/0/page/2#137086) http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[scott s]

And heres my 70 bb 4spd car.... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[69LM1]

[ QUOTE ]
Based on the first page, Monte production totals...I come up with a lower number of 70 402 4 speeds.
Follow along!
production states for 1970
10786 TH400's
we know all 3823 SS used the TH400
that leaves 6963 TH400's
next we know 7456 402's produced
so mate the remaining TH400's to 402's and you're left with 493 402's.... which I deduce were mated to 4 speeds.

making a 1970 402 4 speed production total of 493 http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


Ah, what about the 3 speed manuals? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Rich

[DaveC68]

From the literature I've seen, the 3 speed manual was the base Monte only...3 speed manual was only mated to the 350 2 bbl.
But if by chance any other trans (3 speed manual, or powerglide) was bolted to any 402's... that just brings the number of 402 4 speeds down even lower.

[DaveC68]

Scott,
Was that Richie's car from North Jersey?
I have a scan of that build sheet and have talked to the guy that owned it before him too.
Nice car for sure!
Dave

[flyingn]

yea tell me about it.. He wanted quite a bit back them High teens if I remember correctly..

F



[ QUOTE ]
More importantly, too bad you did not buy that turd brown SS. You might be surprised what that car would be worth today if in fact there were documents to back it up.
Rick

[/ QUOTE ]

[scott s]

Yes it was his car its a nice #s matching driver and 1 of 1 documented with the special hugger orange paint i believe.Tell me more about the other owner he owned pt.pleasent auto center i believe... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif