70 Chevelle SS FAKE build sheet

[Rixls6]

Check out the build sheet for this car on Ebay. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif
Those who know will agree, I think.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1970-CHEV...1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1970-CHEVELLE-SS-396-CONVERTIBLE_W0QQitemZ220077979468QQihZ012QQcategor yZ6164QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

[Xplantdad]

Hey at least it's an[ QUOTE ]
Arazona Car

[/ QUOTE ]

[Bill Pritchard]

If it's fake, that's scary.....someone sure has the font and general appearance pretty damn close http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[Verne_Frantz]

Bill,
I'm not familiar with build sheets from that time frame. Are the RPOs always listed alphabetically?

Verne

[Bill Pritchard]

Verne,

Yes, they are.

[Rixls6]

[ QUOTE ]
If it's fake, that's scary.....someone sure has the font and general appearance pretty damn close http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

It is a bit scary how close the fonts are, but several things jump out at me saying it's a fake made by someone that doesn't know certain things.

[Mr70]

I too have been to Kansas City,as well as Atlanta.

[x Baldwin Motion]

It sure is mighty sporting of them to indicate "Not Original Motor" after going to the trouble of producing a bogus build sheet.
What's half honest worth?

[chevelleheart]

Well, I knew this was going to happen , They are getting better and better, the aging, the fonts as RixLS6 says is scary ,un-believable how accurate it is.Real quickly I found a few mistakes, that indicate it's a fake too but with minor changes to this sheet, I don't know how you could tell the difference between this and a real one !As RixLS6 did too, guys I wouldn't be too forthcoming on telling the website what's wrong with this sheet.I'm sad to say that were are going to be flooded with "Documented" cars real soon !!

[x Baldwin Motion]

why go to that trouble and not stamp the "restoration" motor for the big bucks? maybe current seller was duped?

[Verne_Frantz]

Now that makes sense Chris!

[Bill Pritchard]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey at least it's an[ QUOTE ]
Arazona Car

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

....that was originally delivered to Valdosta GA according to the fake build sheet http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif Also, if faking the build sheet, why not put the C60 Air Cond on there http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Rick Cell]

I would think that any car delivered new to a Georgia GM dealer should of been built at the Atlanta plant plus that vin number shows that it was built at the Kansas plant on November 69 not March 70 as per the build sheet shown.

[HEMIBEE]

its hard to sit and watch some poor sap get shafted on this car, the currant owner may have no idea??

[Bill Pritchard]

[ QUOTE ]
I would think that any car delivered new to a Georgia GM dealer should of been built at the Atlanta plant

[/ QUOTE ]

Although that would seem to make sense, it didn't always happen that way. I know of a 70 Z28 that was sold new at Nickey Chevrolet in Chicago....you'd think it would have been built in Norwood OH, but it was built in Los Angeles http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Rainer]

[ QUOTE ]

Although that would seem to make sense, it didn't always happen that way. I know of a 70 Z28 that was sold new at Nickey Chevrolet in Chicago....you'd think it would have been built in Norwood OH, but it was built in Los Angeles http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I've got a Leeds built 1970 car that was delivered to a California dealer, when you'd think it would have been built at Van Nuys.

I did this in a couple posts at TC, and I think Bruce did it here as well - we need to start listing VINs in our threads so that future owners can come to the boards and dig up this info on their cars. Once the ebay listing is gone, its gone.

Here goes: 1970 Chevelle SS convertible on ebay, VIN 136670K133115 red with black top and interior. Being sold by ebay user do00065 from Crystal Lake, IL

And why not have the fake build sheet image posted as well, so that if the mistakes are corrected, there's still the evidence of the "original" fake one.

http://www.vancouver.wsu.edu//fac/seitz/70ChevelleSSbuildsheetfake.jpg

[mrrec]

PLEASE don't post specific errors in phony documents! The crooks don't need any help......
Dave

[Keith Tedford]

I feel like Dave. Keep the little oddities to yourself. I just happen to know a thing or two about COPO Chevelles that can make some fakes stand out like a sore thumb. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[1railman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Although that would seem to make sense, it didn't always happen that way. I know of a 70 Z28 that was sold new at Nickey Chevrolet in Chicago....you'd think it would have been built in Norwood OH, but it was built in Los Angeles http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I've got a Leeds built 1970 car that was delivered to a California dealer, when you'd think it would have been built at Van Nuys.

I did this in a couple posts at TC, and I think Bruce did it here as well - we need to start listing VINs in our threads so that future owners can come to the boards and dig up this info on their cars. Once the ebay listing is gone, its gone.

Here goes: 1970 Chevelle SS convertible on ebay, VIN 136670K133115 red with black top and interior. Being sold by ebay user do00065 from Crystal Lake, IL

And why not have the fake build sheet image posted as well, so that if the mistakes are corrected, there's still the evidence of the "original" fake one.

http://www.vancouver.wsu.edu//fac/seitz/70ChevelleSSbuildsheetfake.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?
Because this is just one car and we should protect the hobby.

[chevelleheart]

I Totally agree , don't reveal the mistakes!

[Rainer]

I agree also about posting specific mistakes, which is why I didn't point any out in my post. If the sheet does ever get corrected, it will be hard to explain the copy of the one we have in this post.

Although I agree with Bill and others that there is some concern with the fake build sheets getting better, I am optimistic that very soon we will see the collector car market respond with some document authentication service offerings.

I have no background in this area, but I'm sure that there are experts who can easily detect whether paper and ink are 37 years old or just made to look that way. Document forgeries have been happening for centuries, but modern technology has come a long way. Combine that with some expert knowledge of the correct information to be found on a sheet, and the fakers will be stopped dead in their tracks.

Weighing a cost of $100-$200 for this type of service against a $30000-$60000 purchase price seems like a no-brainer. Whether its done for-profit or established by some car hobby governing bodies, this needs to be available.

[Rainer]

Just did a little digging on the internet, and found a ton of info on document examination. Here's one brief explanation:

"Forensic document examination is the scientific examination of handwriting, hand printing, alterations, obliterations, indented writing, typewritten and machine made documents, photostatic copies, ink and paper analysis, possible dating and other related document problems.
Documents examined are subjected to various types of non-destructive examinations; such as, visual, ultraviolet, infrared, microscopic, photographic and indentation examinations."

My prediction is that it will just be a matter of time before we start to see cars on the market with "certified" documentation, and sales of collector cars being contingent upon documentation examination.

The scammers are going to be screwed if they have to answer the question, "Is there a problem with making the deal contingent upon expert examination of the buildsheet?"