327 chevy motor in Rochester New York

[ronebee]

A friend of mine has a 327 motor in his garage and is trying to figure out what it is. Casting number on the back of the block is 3914660, number on front pad is
18D137046 T1208HM, anybody have any ideas what hes got? He says if he remembers right that it is a 4 bolt main.

[x Baldwin Motion]

all 327's were 2bolt mains ( unless converted after)

3914660....327.....68....2bbl casting number reference (http://www.mortec.com/castnum.htm)


HM 1968 327 w/tur hydramatic 250hp 4bbl suffix codes (http://www.nastyz28.com/gm-chevy-codes/chevy-engine-codes-suffix-5.php)
from full size car http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I've got one in my shop as well, chris is right with the application - as I took mine out of a '68 Impala in a junk yard. I only took the engine because it was attached to a TH400 that I wanted - couldn't leave the engine behind with only a $100 price tag for both!

[ronebee]

Thank you for the input, I didn't know what it was and I told my friend I would post here to see if he had anything.
I learned something today, never knew that all 327's were two bolt mains, assumed all Corvette 283 and 327s were four bolts, now I'm curious to drop the pan on that motor and see if somebody modified that to a four bolt main.

[Mr70]

I believe a scarce few 327cid's were released in 4 bolt configuration from the Romulus Mi. plant.I can't prove it,find their applications nor find the evidence that I saw to prove it,but have seen a few of them in my life and fully believe they were not modified after the fact.

[x Baldwin Motion]

[ QUOTE ]
I believe a scarce few 327cid's were released in 4 bolt configuration from the Romulus Mi. plant.I can't prove it,find their applications nor find the evidence that I saw to prove it,but have seen a few of them in my life and fully believe they were not modified after the fact.

[/ QUOTE ]


Rick, what were those 4bolt 327s in? Or, what year were they from? I once had someone insist his 69 327 was a 4bolt.

( http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif hens teeth http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif)

[Tarrytown SS427s]

Interesting, I have a 396 recorded vin stamp 18D136034 with a date stamp of 1208 just like your engine. Fits into my list perfectly! If anybody has any original fullsize engines or Muncies, please send me the stamped info off them, as I have a list of over 4000 engine dates so far and it has become very interesting research.
Steve

[COPO_Anders]

A guy here in Sweden who has sold used Chevy V8´s for decades claims to have stumbled over a couple of 4-bolt 327 engines to. They were not modified since they hadn´t been taken apart before.

[Fast67VelleN2O]

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting, I have a 396 recorded vin stamp 18D136034 with a date stamp of 1208 just like your engine. Fits into my list perfectly! If anybody has any original fullsize engines or Muncies, please send me the stamped info off them, as I have a list of over 4000 engine dates so far and it has become very interesting research.
Steve

[/ QUOTE ]

I have sold a few Muncies already that were big car, let me see if I saved the info and I will send it to you

[x Baldwin Motion]

[ QUOTE ]
A guy here in Sweden who has sold used Chevy V8´s for decades claims to have stumbled over a couple of 4-bolt 327 engines to. They were not modified since they hadn´t been taken apart before.

[/ QUOTE ]


Now I'd really like to get some casting numbers and dates on these http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif Has any one seen any reference that claims they exist?

Has the pan been pulled in Rochester yet?

[BBIGG BLOCK 396]

I was reading on the internet somewhere can't remember right now, a few weeks ago about 327 four bolt mains and they were Marine engines with standard rotation and the dipstick on the starboard side! does that make sense! I will try to see If I can find where I read it at.

[COPO_Anders]

327 engines made in the seventies are also unusual. I have had two of them, one from 1972 and one from 1974. Both were originally installed in Opel Diplomat Coupes.

[John Brown]

[ QUOTE ]
I was reading on the internet somewhere can't remember right now, a few weeks ago about 327 four bolt mains and they were Marine engines with standard rotation and the dipstick on the <u>starboard side</u>! does that make sense! I will try to see If I can find where I read it at.

[/ QUOTE ]

That must be the passenger side for all us car guys here in the states huh?? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

[x Baldwin Motion]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
....... they were Marine engines with standard rotation and the dipstick on the <u>starboard side</u>! .....

[/ QUOTE ]

That must be the passenger side for all us car guys here in the states huh?? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Passenger side if the engine were in a car but not if it were a boat, as most have the helm to starboard so passengers are to port(left). http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif ...........but that may reversed in countries where people drive on the wrong side of the car http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[PeteLeathersac]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
....... they were Marine engines with standard rotation and the dipstick on the <u>starboard side</u>! .....

[/ QUOTE ]

That must be the passenger side for all us car guys here in the states huh?? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Passenger side if the engine were in a car but not if it were a boat, as most have the helm to starboard so passengers are to port(left). http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif ...........but that may reversed in countries where people drive on the wrong side of the car http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

All depends on which direction your water swirls when it goes down the drain?!

~ Pete
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[JohnZ]

MerCruiser, Crusader Marine (and possibly others) created some of their own 4-bolt 327 marine engines, but none left any Chevrolet engine plant that way; the 4-bolt machining stations in the small-block transfer lines didn't exist at Flint or Tonawanda until the 1968 calendar year.

Another low-volume small-block line existed at Holden's (GM) in Australia; that one may or may not have had 4-bolt machining capability.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[x Baldwin Motion]

[ QUOTE ]
.... but none left any Chevrolet engine plant that way; the 4-bolt machining stations in the small-block transfer lines didn't exist at Flint or Tonawanda until the 1968 calendar year.......

[/ QUOTE ]


John has spoken. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif
Thanks.

[BBIGG BLOCK 396]

I don't know all I was doing was stating what I read somewhere to see if anyone else had read that or if it made any sense. As far as starboard side I don't have a clue about that neither it was just what was stated in what I read. But I talked to an OLD ENGINE BUILDER today and asked him and he said they did make a FACTORY 4 Bolt main 327 engine and the block castings were #3914678 and # 3955618 he also stated thet some farming combines and trucks got the 4 bolt main 327 engines and that those were LOW COMPRESSION commercial duty application engines but he also said they made some high performance 327 4 bolt main engines and that they were late 1969 and that he knows some corvettes came with them and that the late 69 model 327 engines shared the same blocks as some 350 engines! Also I found this site and it says that they were 4 bolt 327 blocks check out below the casting # 3955618 it says it was a 4 bolt block!

Small Block Chevy Engine Block Identification


General Engine Block Specifications
While 6 different bore size blocks have been produced, the small block engine can be classified into 3 bore sizes and 3 main bearing sizes. 283 blocks (3.875" bore, 2.3" main), 302/327/350 blocks (4" bore, 2.3" or 2.45" mains), and 400 blocks (4.126", 2.65" mains). In 1968 the main bearing saddles were increased in size from 2.3" to 2.45".

CID Year Bore Main Cap
262 1975 3.671 2 bolt ONLY
267 1979 - 81 3.500 2 bolt ONLY
305 1976 - 96 3.736 2 bolt ONLY
307 1968 - 73 3.875 2 bolt ONLY
327 1968-69 4.001 (2.3" main) 2 bolt
350 1968-88 4.001 (2.3" main) 2 bolt
265 1994 4.001 (2.45" main) 2 bolt
302 1968-69 4.001 (2.45" main) 4 bolt
350 1968-96 4.001 (2.45" main) 4 bolt
400 1970-72 4.126 (2.65" main) 4 bolt
400 1973-80 4.126 (2.65" main) 2 bolt

Notes: 2 bolt ONLY means what it says. You will NOT find a 4 bolt 305 block (made by the factory). Period. Otherwise 2 or 4 bolt can mean either design...

Engine Code Stamping Numbers
All engines are stamped with an engine ID code, consisting of assembly plant code, production date and suffix code. V8 codes are stamped on a pad just forward of the right side (passenger) cylinder head. 6 cylinder engines are stamped on the passenger side of the block behind the distributor.
The engine date must precede the car build date, otherwise something is amiss. Some engine machining operations (decking) will obliterate the engine ID.

Engine ID Code Example: V0101CLJ - (V = Plant, 01 = Month, 01 = Day, CLJ = Engine Suffix Code)

Engine Plant Code
Flint (Motor/6-cyl) F
Hydramatic H
St. Catherines, Ontario K
(McKinnon Industries Canada)
GM of Mexico M
Saginaw Service S
Tonawanda T
Flint (Engine/V8) V


Casting Clock
On some Saginaw blocks, intakes and exhausts a "clock" was cast into the block. The clock is a circle of 10 dots, one dot for each hour of a shift (usually 10 hour shifts). An arrow points to the beginning of the shift an another dot outside the circle indicates what time of day the cast part was made. Anyways, that's what that circle thing is (if you happen to see it on something).

Casting Date
Small block casting date is located on driver side rear of block on flange forward of bellhousing. Big block on the right side of engine above the oil pan rails.
Casting Date Example: E038 - (E = Month, 03 = Day, 8 = Last digit of model year (1978)).

Month: A = Jan, B = Feb, C = Mar, D = Apr, E = May, F = Jun, G = July, H = Aug, I = Sep, J = Oct, K = Nov, L = Dec

VIN Code Format
The vin code format is stamped onto most engines. The format consists of divisional identification number, model year, assembly plant designation and vehicle serial or sequence number.
In 68-69 model cars, the serial (VIN) number of the car the engine was installed in is stamped next to, or under the engine code ID.
Starting in 1970, the serial number is stamped either above the oil filter, somewhere on the block pad (in front of the cylinder head), or on the transmission flange somewhere. Chevrolet issued technical service bulletins to indicate which engines were to recieve a vin stamp, so who knows what could have happend (or not happened).

VIN code format Example: 13N100001
(1 = Chevrolet, 3 = 1973, N = Norwood, 100001 = Production sequence)

Engine Block Casting Numbers
Notes (for below): "High Power" is the maximum rate HP this block was used for, "Low Power" is the lowest rated horsepower RPO engine the block was used in. "Main Caps" is the number of bolts holding the cap. A "two-bolt" main, or a four-bolt main. Four bolt main blocks are desirable in high performance applications because the extra strength of the additional bolts keeps the bottom end rigid and less prone to failure. However, a properly prepared 2 bolt main engine will work just fine (often times you'll lose a rod bolt before you break a crank because it's "only" a 2 bolt main).

Years Casting CID Main Caps Comments
1980-85 140029 350 - - 2 car
1973-80 330817 400 - - 2 car, truck
1975 355909 262 - - 2 car, truck
1976-85 355909 305 - - 2 A
1975 360851 262 - - 2 Monza
1976-79 361979 305 - - 2 car, truck
1978-86 366245 350 - - - car
1982-86 366286 350 - - 4 Chevrolet, siamese
1982 366299 350 - - 4 Chevrolet, aluminium
1956-67 383810 283 - - 2 -
1967-68 389257 302 - - 2 Z-28
1968-73 391436 307 - - 2 -
1965-67 393288 283 - - 2 car, truck
1976-79 460776 305 - - 2 car, truck
1976-79 460777 305 - - 2 car
1978-79 460778 305 - - 2 car, truck
1979-82 471511 267 - - 2 car, truck
1976-85 581671 305 - - 2 A
1985-94 1489363 350 - - 2 -
1979-82 2135412 267 - - 2 -
1979-82 2404929 267 - - 2
1973-76 3030817 400 - - 2 car, truck
1958-61 3556519 283 - - 2 car, truck
1955 3703524 265 195 _ 2 car, no filter
1955-56 3720991 265 195 225 2 car, truck
1957 3731548 283 220 283 2 -
1956-67 3736935 283 - - 2 -
1957-59 3737739 283 220 290 2 car, truck
1958-62 3756519 283 230 315 2 car, truck
1956-67 3756935 283 - - 2 -
1962-65 3782870 327 250 375 2 car, truck
1956-67 3789187 283 - - 2 -
1962-67 3789817 327 210 275 2 car, truck
1961-64 3789935 283 230 315 2 car, truck, Vette
1966-67 3790721 283 - - 2 Chevy II
1964-67 3791362 327 300 300 2 Chevy II
1958-62 3794226 283 220 220 2 truck
1968-69 3794460 327 250 250 2 truck
1968-69 3814660 327 - - 2 F A
1968-69 3814660 302 - - 4 Camaro, Z-28, Vette
1956-67 3832338 283 - - 2 -
1956-67 3834812 283 - - 2 -
1958-62 3837739 283 - - 2 -
1957-66 3849852 283 220 - 2 car, truck
1956-67 3849859 283 - - 2 -
1956-67 3849935 283 - - 2 -
1964-67 3852174 327 - - 2 car, truck
1968-76 3855961 350 - - 2 car
1964-67 3858174 327 300 - 2 A
1964-67 3858180 327 250 - 2 -
1962-67 3858190 327 - - 2 -
1966-67 3862194 283 - - 2 Chevy II
1962-66 3864812 283 230 - 2 car, truck
1964-67 3868657 327 300 - 2
1962-67 3876132 327 - - 2
1963 3889935 283 - - 2 truck
1962-67 3892657 327 - - 2 car, truck
1967 3892657 302 290 - Z-28, small journal
1968-69 3892659 327 210 - 2
1962-66 3896944 283 230 - 2
1965-67 3896948 283 - - 2
1964-67 3903352 327 250 - 2
1969-80 3911460 350 - - 2 A
1968-73 3914635 307 - - 2 car
1968-73 3914636 307 - - 2 car, truck
1968-69 3914638 327 - - 2
1968-73 3914653 307 - - 2 A
1968-69 3914660 327 250 - 2 truck
1968-69 3914678 302 290 - 2/4 Camaro, Z-28
1968-69 3914678 327 210 295 4 car, truck
1968 3914678 350 210 295 4 cars
1965-67 3932288 283 - - 2 A
1956-67 3932338 283 - - 2
1974-75 3932368 350 - - 2
1969-73 3932371 307 - - 2 car,truck
1969-73 3932373 307 - - 2 car,truck
1968-69 3932386 350 300 350 4 LT1,4
1968 3932386 327 - - 2 A
1969 3932386 302 290 - 4 Camaro,Z28
1969-76 3932388 350 165 300 2 car,truck
1968-69 3933100 327 - - 2
1968-69 3933180 327 - - 2
1968 3941174 307 - - 2 truck
1956-67 3949852 283 - - 2
1973-80 3951509 400 - - 2 car,truck
1970-73 3951511 400 - - 4 truck
1962-67 3953512 327 - - 2
1968-69 3955618 327 - - 4 A,F,Vette
1969 3956618 302 290 - 4 Z28
1969-79 3956618 350 165 350 4 car, truck, vette
1969-76 3958618 350 - - 2 A
1962-63 3959512 327 250 - 2
1956-67 3959532 283 - - 2
1968 3970010 327 - - 2 A
1969-79 3970010 350 185 370 2 or 4 car, truck, Vette
1968-76 3970014 350 - - 2 car,truck
1969-73 3970020 307 - - 2 car,truck
1968-76 6259425 350 - - - car,truck
1980-84 14010201 305 - - 2 car,truck
1980-84 14010202 305 - - 2 car,truck
1980-84 14010203 305 - - 2 car, truck
1980-82 14010205 267 - - 2 -
1980-85 14010207 350 - - 4 truck
1980-85 14010209 350 - - 4 truck
1978-86 14010231 305 - - 2 -
1979-82 14010280 267 - - 2 car
1982 14011064 350 - - 4 Chevrolet, high tin
1979-82 14016375 267 - - 2 -
1979-82 14016376 267 - - 2 car
1978-85 14016379 350 - - - car, truck
1980-84 14016381 305 - - 2 car, truck
1978-88 14016383 305 - - 2 -
1979-82 14040205 267 - - 2 -
1978-86 14049047 305 - - 2
1986-94 14079287 350 - - -
1987 14088526 350 - - 2 Camaro
1986-94 14088548 350 - - - -
1986-92 14088551 305 - - 2 -
1988-94 14093627 305 - - 2 -
1986-94 14093638 350 - - -
1988-94 14094766 305 - - 2
1986-94 14101148 350 - - -
1987-88 14102058 305 - - 2
1969-85 14316379 350 - - 2

[John Brown]

[ QUOTE ]

Small Block Chevy Engine Block Identification


General Engine Block Specifications
While 6 different bore size blocks have been produced, the small block engine can be classified into 3 bore sizes and 3 main bearing sizes. 283 blocks (3.875" bore, 2.3" main), 302/327/350 blocks (4" bore, 2.3" or 2.45" mains), and 400 blocks (4.126", 2.65" mains). In 1968 the main bearing saddles were increased in size from 2.3" to 2.45".

CID Year Bore Main Cap
262 1975 3.671 2 bolt ONLY
267 1979 - 81 3.500 2 bolt ONLY
305 1976 - 96 3.736 2 bolt ONLY
307 1968 - 73 3.875 2 bolt ONLY
327 1968-69 4.001 (2.3" main) 2 bolt
350 1968-88 4.001 (2.3" main) 2 bolt
265 1994 4.001 (2.45" main) 2 bolt
302 1968-69 4.001 (2.45" main) 4 bolt
350 1968-96 4.001 (2.45" main) 4 bolt
400 1970-72 4.126 (2.65" main) 4 bolt
400 1973-80 4.126 (2.65" main) 2 bolt

Notes: 2 bolt ONLY means what it says. You will NOT find a 4 bolt 305 block (made by the factory). Period. Otherwise 2 or 4 bolt can mean either design...



[/ QUOTE ]

I would hate to trust this as reliable information when the 68 and later 327's and 350's had large journal cranks, and this page incorrectly lists them as small journal. Who knows what other information might be incorrect.

Not doubting the messenger, just the message.

[JohnZ]

[ QUOTE ]
he also said they made some high performance 327 4 bolt main engines and that they were late 1969 and that he knows some corvettes came with them

[/ QUOTE ]

1968 was the last year for the 327 in the Corvette.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[x Baldwin Motion]

Bobby D. thanks for posting that "war and peace" of engine data, what is the source?

According to widely recognized MOR TEC (http://www.mortec.com/castnum.htm)
and several other tech sites that quote GM production
the 3914678 cast was used for 327 as a two bolt and a 302 as a four bolt. As was the 3955618 327/2bolt 350/4bolt.


add to that John Z being there.........

Trust me, I would love to see proof of a factory 4bolt 327 in a passenger car from detroit.

[BBIGG BLOCK 396]

Damn maybe I just should have kept my mouth shut,I sure didn't want to get any crap started. And I personally have never seen a 327 four bolt main engine block either from the factory or one converted into a 4 bolt main block. I got the verbal information from an old guy that built many many engines over the years,he owned a old machine shop for over 45 years and all they did was build engines,also he used to race here locally years and years ago. The old guy is about 87 years old now but gets around pretty well and is not senile.
I actually went by to see him for a couple of mopar parts and got to talking to him about the 327 four bolts and If he had ever seen any. So that was the verbal information,I would have him log onto the site but he don't like computers and says that electronc technology is killing us all! He still toast his bread in an oven LOL! The list I posted of the engine castings came from here!

http://www.geocities.com/meanracing/BlockCastingInformation.html

And here!
http://www.73-87.com/chevy_ids/blockid.htm

Also I was told by someone today that if you also look at a book called CHEVROLET SMALL-BLOCK V8 I.D. GUIDE it will show there that some 4 bolt 327 engines were built or existed. Now whether they were for cars,trucks, or combines or other commercial applications I do not know.
Now I know that these references I posted are not 100% correct and in most can and do have errors they were produced bu HUMANS.
The only reason I posted it was the controversary of yes they made 4 bolt 327 engines and No they did not make them. I think that back in those years many things happened and no one knows all of them and it is possible that they were made, could be a mistake or not I do not know. You guys certainly have more knowledge than I do on things like this and certainly have see a lot more than I have. I am just posting what I was told and what I found to see if any of it makes any sense to you guys.
I am not saying GM made the 327 four bolt main engines or not! You do have quite a few people saying they seen some and that they know people that have seen some! and I also talked to the OLD MACHINIST that said he seen some and even rebuilt some and that he had also converted some 2 bolt blocks to 4 bolt blocks! As far as John Z. that worked for GM and says that there were none made I can appreciate the knowledge someone like him has and the things he must have seen when he worked at GM, and I can see where you guys take him at his word and I bet his word is 99% GOLDEN! they did not make any 4 bolt 327 engines.
But on the other hand I bet you guys have heard of other things not being done at GM and then later in the years things show up and left you guys saying I BE DAMNED they did do that! I think it would be hard for one man to say NO that GM never had or produced them!
Unless it was that persons job to see and inspect all engines! or just be over the Engine Department completely!
I am certain that John Z. knows WAY WAY WAY MORE than MOST people about GM and what went on in those early years!
And I am in NO way saying he is wrong. But based on what has popped up over the years that has been said NO GM DID NO SUCH THING BACK THEN! But then things showed that GM MUST HAVE DID THEM BECAUSE THERE WAS THE PROOF ! What happens now if a 327 engine pops up that is a FACTORY 4 bolt main engine! Do you say that DAMN GM DID DO THAT,DAMN GM DIDN'T DO THAT or John Z. made a mistake! Don't get me wrong,I am not knocking John Z. or any other people and there knowledge at all! I Respect you guy's a lot because of what you guys know and do, and personally It is nothing to me one way or the other if a 327 four bolt main engine was ever made.
But you have to think with what these others say! IS IT POSSIBLE !
Again let me add I did not post anything to get any crap started with anyone I just posted what I heard and found on the internet! Whether it is true or not I am not sure. But I bet stranger things have happened at the GM and other car manfacturing Plants. THIS POST WAS NOT MADE TO OFFEND ANYONE ON WHAT THEY KNOW OR BELIEVE GM DID BACK IN THE DAY! IT WAS MADE TO SHOW ONLY WHAT I WAS TOLD AND WHAT I FOUND ON THE INTERNET AS FAR AS REFERENCE SO PLEASE DO NOT TAKE OFFENSE I WAS ONLY TRYING TO SHARE WHAT I FOUND TO SEE IF IT MADE SENSE REGARDING THE TOPIC! Also forgive me for the poor spelling,grammar and punctuation!

BOBBY DODSON

[x Baldwin Motion]

Bobby, no offense taken or intended. I just wanted to add your source to my reference!!
I appreciate all input and opinion and more often then not, the old timers know a little bit more than the books!

I guess the 327 4 bolt may go the way of the rag top Z16 http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif

thanks for sharing http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif