Re: GM Facts and Fiction
 

Did you know that the big three wages account for only 7% of the cars value. So how could the wages of the union members be the problem.The theiving bast---s who were allowed to create this financial melt down,and the oil price gouging and the white house all conspired in the name of capitalism at its worst.
Do some of you remember the 70s when we had to line up for 5 gallons of gas!! The world was running out of gas, the sky is falling, the sky is falling. well we all fell for it
gas prices went through the roof and shortly there after
we had a recession thanks to the oil manopoly and the white house who let it happen. So all of us workers then want to blame the union member for creating this problem for the car companies??????? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/headbang.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/headbang.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/headbang.gif
Dont let them get away with it this time
blame the people who did it and put them in jail. If a union member had created this meltdown what do you think they would do to him or her EH
PJ

Re: GM Facts and Fiction
 

Our rural mail carriers went through an "Asian" phase for a while...if it didn't say Toyota or Nissan on it, then they wouldn't own it. But, they all learned after having to do the same maintenance and fix the same trouble spots on the foreign trucks that *just maybe* it was the 6-days a week, 100+ miles per/day, backwoods, gravel road, start/stop mail routes that was the problem and not the "crap domestic vehicles" as they'd originally thought! I think they're all driving S10s/Rangers, and a few of them drive '80s model Caprice/Impalas/LTDs...

BTW: isn't it *funny* that Congress cut a check to the banking industry for $750 BILLION without even so much as a whimper, and yet they're beating up the reps from the Big3 on Capitol Hill, talking about stipulations/strings attached/restructuring/etc, all over $25 billion?

Re: GM Facts and Fiction
 

Rob, maybe this will help explain why the Big 3 is getting beat up on: http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=224543

Corporate jets are a perq, not a must have item. When a CEO making $25 Million a year flys to DC in a corporate jet that runs $3000/hr to fly, plus what they pay to staff and service it, this does not make good press. Ford could easily find four guys at $2 million a year to do a better job, and save the difference.

Re: GM Facts and Fiction
 

Is it true that there is close to a 40% difference in worker wages & bennies between GM and the ricers.

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Re: GM Facts and Fiction
 

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Corporate jets are a perq, not a must have item. When a CEO making $25 Million a year flys to DC in a corporate jet that runs $3000/hr to fly, plus what they pay to staff and service it, this does not make good press. Ford could easily find four guys at $2 million a year to do a better job, and save the difference.

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Hey, I'm in full agreement with that...but we're talking about 3 companies asking for a combined $25 billion...while the jokers who asked for *and recieved* the $750 billion are on what, lavish party/vacation number 3 now? Don't get me wrong, the Big3 could use a big dose of fat trimming, but it's looking to me like Congress couldn't care less about them going under, but were all about helping out their banking buddies...kinda makes a guy wonder in *whose* bank account is that $750 BILLION actually gonna end up in, huh? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/tongue.gif

Re: GM Facts and Fiction
 

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Is it true that there is close to a 40% difference in worker wages & bennies between GM and the ricers.


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I think CNN said this morning $73/hour @ GM (labor+legacy costs) as opposed to $48/hour @ Toyota...

Re: GM Facts and Fiction
 

The true issue is that they have no plan for the money.

Say they get $25B by yelling loud enough... What do they do with it? They will still have all the problems that they had before they had the money; misguided products, union issues, etc... Giving them money now will not change their competitive position or their competitive environment-- It would just be good money chasing bad.

In reality, it's possible that the best thing that happens is that they go Ch. 11, forcing a house-cleaning and review of overall corporate policies/practices that has been needed for four decades.

Re: GM Facts and Fiction
 

They can *not* go Chapter 11, the credit market simply isn't there any more...that leaves Chapter 7, which is LIQUIDATION.

I think if they could limp to 2010 (which is when they get out from under the UAW's healthcare/trust agreement) then with a little reworking they could survive...but it's looking like our Congress would rather the Big3 fold, and we simply import everything else for the rest of our lives (assuming anyone left has any $$$ to do buy anything!).

And as for house cleaning, how about those strokes in Congress & the banking industry that forced the better part of this hand? I won't hold my breath on that... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: GM Facts and Fiction
 

It would seem to me that a combination of labor, it's associated costs and over regulation are most likely the main culprits in placing the company in an uncompetitive situation. I agree that there has always been destructive competition coming from overseas but I think that the GM business model needs an overhaul. I think their products are up to snuff but the internal workings of the organization are most likely set in the twentieth not the twenty first century. If the business is to survive there will need to be give on both sides, labor and management. I think the UAW will need to come to the realization that moving forward new hires compensation will need to be placed on an even pace with the competition. Maybe the bail out if any should be focused on control of the existing health and pension plans in an attempt to place overhead at a more manageable rate. As workers retire etc. new workers would come in on a more competitive basis.

Even if you have a very good product if the cost is prohibitive your market will not be very dynamic.

Cost is Cost, if the products are reasonably equal cost is the only determining factor.

I have always thought that CR was biased towards imports.

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Re: GM Facts and Fiction
 

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WOW Keith, we must be neighbors. I used to always read consumer reports. It seems to be they do alot of bashing of American goods. I know what they said about my Chevy Astro van of the eighties https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...thumbsdown.gif but we got 136,000 out of my 1986 and 134,000 out of my 1994 Astro van, carting 4 boys around too. I am sure CR does not really care for my 1998 GMC pickup but after 178,000 miles I changed the motor because I did not think a leaky head gasket was worth doing with that many miles. Other than that NO problems. But I bet that got a bad write-up because maybe the lighter did not work or the door pins needed to be replaced. No matter what you have you have to take care of things. There are some really junkie products out there but not just from the USA.

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I had a 1990 GMC 4X4 that went 500k with pretty much zero failures.. couple of trans rebuilds never took a valve cover off in sixteen years.. didn't burn any oil!. We make good powertrains,fit and finish is another story but bottom line our products have been built well for quite some time but the stigma remains.

We didn't catch the memo about plant modernization. Robotics have been around for decades,domestic mfgs were nappin on those same as the looming CAFE standards that are coming due.

There's one word that can sum up this whole deal-from the auto execs ,mortgage industry,hedge funds,UAW and UAE. It's called greed,and it's killed this country in the short term. When these SOB CEO's are effectively sucking their golden parachute funds from retired people's 401k's it's no wonder we are at this point. Do unto others than split. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...thumbsdown.gif