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Re: FOR YOU PONTIAC DUDES, 70 GTO RAM AIR 4 PICS
[ QUOTE ]
please don't take this wrong. But HOW do you know it was a Judge? The engine could be a 455 ram air and the stripes/spoiler could have been added. Did it have the telltale 'judge' emblem on the glovebox cover? As you seen with my link there were NO dark blue 71 Judge conv's made.. [/ QUOTE ] If you have read all my posts in this thread you will understand that it was an original paint, unmolested, 5-6 year old car that I was the third owner of. The car was in my hometown for 3-4 years before I bought it. IT WAS A JUDGE. It was blue and as I said medium--dark blue in my eye. There are a lot of different shades of blue and the distinction between med. and dark is subject to an individual's preception. |
Re: FOR YOU PONTIAC DUDES, 70 GTO RAM AIR 4 PICS
Well, which nose did it have? All the 71 Judge ragtops have been accounted for and you say the only blue one on that list was not the one you owned. So was it a 70? That is the more logical expanation than it being a 71.
Trying to jog your memeory - when you were driving it, could you see the black hood scoop openings? (1970) or not (1971). As for engines, the 400 RAIII, the 400 RAIV and the 455 were available in the Judges. The 1970 455 was a higher compression engine than the 71/72 455HO and had different heads. |
Re: FOR YOU PONTIAC DUDES, 70 GTO RAM AIR 4 PICS
and did it have the 'Judge' plate on the glovebox door?
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Re: FOR YOU PONTIAC DUDES, 70 GTO RAM AIR 4 PICS
I THINK it was the 71 nose but I only owned this car for a week or two. Back then i was buying and selling cars as a sideline to my other business. I used to watch for local ads and for sale signs on cars. I knew how to buy and how and where to market this kind of special stuff.
As I say, it was 30+ years ago and a lot of cars in between. Here is a partial list of some of the more memorable cars I have owned that I wrote down years ago before I forgot some of them. There are a bunch of others including later model Corvettes also but nothing that I consider real "special." 1936 Dodge pick-up street rod 1954 Corvette 1956 Cadillac dual quad car 1957 Corvette FIRST factory FI car, air box car, HD brakes suspension, MULE car for the Sebring racers 1958 Corvette 283, 3 speed 1958 Corvette factory FI, 290 h.p. 4 speed, PW, PT, 3.73 gears 1961 283 Corvette 4 speed 1962 Impala SS 327, auto 1963 Impala SS 409/409, 4 speed 1963 Avanti, factory supercharger, 4 speed, PW 1964 Impala SS 409/340, auto 1964 Falcon Sprint convert., 4 speed 260 engine 1964 Corvette convert, auto, factory A/C 1965 Barracuda 273, auto 1965 Griffith 289 hipo 4 speed 1965 Impala SS 396, auto, convert 1965 Corvette coupe 327/300 Auto, A/C, PS, PDB, PW 1965 Corvette convert 327/365 4 speed 3.31 gears 1966 Mustang 2+2, GT, 289 hipo, 4 speed 1966 Corvette coupe 427/390 4 speed, PS, PDB, PW, A/C 1966 Corvette coupe 327/300, 4 speed, PS, PDB, PW, A/C 1966 Hemi Coronet 4 speed 1 of 11 1967 GTX convert., 440 auto 1967 Coronet R/T 440, auto 1968 Corvette coupe 427/435 4speed 1968 Corvette 427/390 convert, 4 speed 1968 GTX Hemi, auto 1968 Charger R/T Hemi auto, all options except PW and rear speaker 1968 Dart GTS 340, auto 1968 Dart GTS 340 4 speed 1969 GTX convert, 440, 4 speed 3.54 gears 1969 AMX 390, 4 speed, 3.54 gears 1969 Charger R/T/SE, 440 4 speed, 3.54 gears 1969 six pack Super Bee 4 speed 1969 Road Runner 383 air grabber, 4 speed 1970 Charger R/T 440, auto, A/C 1970 Super Bee 383 ram air auto 1970 Chevelle SS 454/450, auto 1970 Mustang Boss 302, 4 speed drag pack car 1970 Challenger 340, A66, 3 speed 1970 Javelin 360 ram air, auto 1970 Rebel 360 auto 1971 GT0 Judge 4 speed, convert 1 of 17 1971 BMW Bavaria 4 speed |
Re: FOR YOU PONTIAC DUDES, 70 GTO RAM AIR 4 PICS
third time for this question.. This will be the deciding factor if it really was a judge or not..
[ QUOTE ] and did it have the 'Judge' plate on the glovebox door? [/ QUOTE ] |
Re: FOR YOU PONTIAC DUDES, 70 GTO RAM AIR 4 PICS
[ QUOTE ]
third time for this question.. This will be the deciding factor if it really was a judge or not.. [ QUOTE ] and did it have the 'Judge' plate on the glovebox door? [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] Yes, it did. I thought that question was self answered b efore when I stated IT WAS A JUDGE. I think what you guys are missing here is that it was a relatively new unmolested used car not unlike a 5 year old car today. Its not like it was a 40 year old car that people are now trying to clone something into something it is not. |
Re: FOR YOU PONTIAC DUDES, 70 GTO RAM AIR 4 PICS
[quote
I bought this car about 1976-77. No one was cloning these cars then. [/ QUOTE ] https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif There was in '78. I cloned my '69 Firebird convertible 350 into a RAIII. I added a Formula wheel, '70 T/A motor, a 400 hood w/ tach and a 400 front bumper & Ralleye wheels. Len (the guy who founded Year One) cloned his '69 Firebird into a '69 T/A, complete with Formula wheel, home fabbed hood, extractors & spoiler. My buddy Vance cloned his '70 Malibu into a SS396, complete with 396, cowl hood, SS wheels, and badging. There were a few of us poor boys trying to fake until we could make it. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif |
Re: FOR YOU PONTIAC DUDES, 70 GTO RAM AIR 4 PICS
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] third time for this question.. This will be the deciding factor if it really was a judge or not.. [ QUOTE ] and did it have the 'Judge' plate on the glovebox door? [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] 1) Yes, it did. I thought that question was self answered b efore when I stated IT WAS A JUDGE. 2) If you have read all my posts in this thread you will understand that it was an original paint, unmolested, 5-6 year old car that I was the third owner of. 3) My car was DEFINATELY a Judge and had the multi colored stripes that surrounded the tops of the front fenders and rear quarters. [/ QUOTE ] You know, when people politely ask you a question several times in this thread, it is because they are trying to help you find an answer. You yourself said you're no expert in Pontiacs. Well guess what, there are a bunch of people here trying to help you, who are experts. There were 17 1971 Judge ragtops known to have been produced through Pontiac's own records. And you, yourself said that it wasn't the blue one on the list. When you respond with a snide remark like the above examples it turns people off from assisting you at all. SAYING THE CAR WAS A JUDGE DOESN'T ANSWER THE DIRECT QUESTION WHETHER IT HAD AN EMBLEM ON THE GLOVE BOX. SAYING "IF YOU READ MY POSTS YOU'D KNOW IT WAS AN ORIGINAL PAINT CAR" DOES NOT ANSWER THE FACT THAT IT WAS A JUDGE IF YOU NEVER SAID IT WAS AN ORIGINAL PAINT CAR IN THE POSTS YOU REFER TO. WHEN SEVERAL PEOPLE ASK YOU WHICH FRONT END STYLE IT HAD AND YOU NEVER GIVE AN ANSWER IT JUSTS LEADS PEOPLE TO BELIEVE YOU'RE JUST MAKING THIS ALL UP AS YOU GO ALONG. I don't usually respond in this fashion to people on this site but if you can't be civil and polite and check the attitude at the door, then no-one is going to interact with you in a civil and polite fashion. |
Re: FOR YOU PONTIAC DUDES, 70 GTO RAM AIR 4 PICS
WHOA!!
It is hard to determine tone with the written word. Sorry that you interpeted it this way, that was not my intent. I have been around these old cars for 40 years. I am trusting my memory for this car from 30+ years ago. It is water under the bridge to me as the car is long gone and really makes no difference to me just as with all the others I have owned. Regarding the color, it MAY have been the same color as the other one I was directed to. Unfortunately I am colorblind and see color differently than those who are not. The way I remember preceiving this car was a darker blue but that doesn't mean it really was. My wife can tell you we have had many arguements about colors over the years. |
Re: FOR YOU PONTIAC DUDES, 70 GTO RAM AIR 4 PICS
FWIW, if it was a Judge 'Vert, 455, 4sp and it was blue, it was a '71, car #16.
AFAIK, there were no 4sp, 455, Judge 'vert's built in '70, only auto trans cars (3). Back to the topic RA IV, Rich, do you know if it came with a 4.33 rear? |
Re: FOR YOU PONTIAC DUDES, 70 GTO RAM AIR 4 PICS
Isn't this discussion pretty pointless?
You are debating the whereabouts on a car that was sold over thirty years ago and no one knows where it is now. No one can for sure say that it was what is claimed... So what's the point arguing about??? Jan |
Re: FOR YOU PONTIAC DUDES, 70 GTO RAM AIR 4 PICS
I am not arguing.
I simply brought the subject up in case someone might know of the car today so that I could assist in chain of ownership. |
Re: FOR YOU PONTIAC DUDES, 70 GTO RAM AIR 4 PICS
[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, if it was a Judge 'Vert, 455, 4sp and it was blue, it was a '71, car #16. AFAIK, there were no 4sp, 455, Judge 'vert's built in '70, only auto trans cars (3). Back to the topic RA IV, Rich, do you know if it came with a 4.33 rear? [/ QUOTE ] I know this car of my friend's does not have a steep gear like the 4.33 I think he said it has a 3.90 gear in it... Rich https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif |
Re: FOR YOU PONTIAC DUDES, 70 GTO RAM AIR 4 PICS
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] FWIW, if it was a Judge 'Vert, 455, 4sp and it was blue, it was a '71, car #16. AFAIK, there were no 4sp, 455, Judge 'vert's built in '70, only auto trans cars (3). Back to the topic RA IV, Rich, do you know if it came with a 4.33 rear? [/ QUOTE ] I know this car of my friend's does not have a steep gear like the 4.33 I think he said it has a 3.90 gear in it... Rich https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif [/ QUOTE ] 3.90 is the standard RAIV gear w/4.33 being an option. Very nice car and I'm sure an absolute blast to drive. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/worship.gif |
Re: FOR YOU PONTIAC DUDES, 70 GTO RAM AIR 4 PICS
These numbers-matching Ram Air IV, 4-speed Pontiac GTO's and T/A's are EXTREMELY rare due to the fact that a missed gear with cast-iron connecting rods usually had disastrous consequences. Every single Small and Big Block Chevy had forged connecting rods and it's a shame that Pontiac skimped in the rod department. It sure would have been nice if they had released those famous SD 455 Forged rods just a few years earlier. It would have saved some rare Pontiacs!Hey, does anybody know the story about the theft issue that occured with these forged SD 455 rods when they were released. They were big news and demand was high.
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Re: FOR YOU PONTIAC DUDES, 70 GTO RAM AIR 4 PICS
so true., I grew up with a friend who had a 70 RA IV Judge 4 speed and sure enough one night on the Roosevelt blvd in NE Philly he scattered the motor.. That was about 1977 or so. Car was only 7 years old and had no more then 40k miles on it
[ QUOTE ] These numbers-matching Ram Air IV, 4-speed Pontiac GTO's and T/A's are EXTREMELY rare due to the fact that a missed gear with cast-iron connecting rods usually had disastrous consequences. Every single Small and Big Block Chevy had forged connecting rods and it's a shame that Pontiac skimped in the rod department. It sure would have been nice if they had released those famous SD 455 Forged rods just a few years earlier. It would have saved some rare Pontiacs!Hey, does anybody know the story about the theft issue that occured with these forged SD 455 rods when they were released. They were big news and demand was high. [/ QUOTE ] |
Re: FOR YOU PONTIAC DUDES, 70 GTO RAM AIR 4 PICS
Car #16 is in the hands of its original owner.
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Re: FOR YOU PONTIAC DUDES, 70 GTO RAM AIR 4 PICS
looks like the stripes are off it now. Looks 100% better too
http://inventory.bestofshowautomotiv...asp?VIN=131757 |
Re: FOR YOU PONTIAC DUDES, 70 GTO RAM AIR 4 PICS
[ QUOTE ]
These numbers-matching Ram Air IV, 4-speed Pontiac GTO's and T/A's are EXTREMELY rare due to the fact that a missed gear with cast-iron connecting rods usually had disastrous consequences. Every single Small and Big Block Chevy had forged connecting rods and it's a shame that Pontiac skimped in the rod department. [/ QUOTE ] Ummmm....that's hardly the reason so few RAIV's exist today. RAIV cars (Firebird or Trans Am) were produced in far fewer numbers (I listed the production figures earlier) than the LS6, Stage 1, or W-30. And the Stage 1 and W-30 continued past 1970, the RAIV did not, so the ratio of 1969-1970 RAIV cars to 1970-1972 Stage 1 or W-30 is about 5 to 1. |
Re: FOR YOU PONTIAC DUDES, 70 GTO RAM AIR 4 PICS
[ QUOTE ]
These numbers-matching Ram Air IV, 4-speed Pontiac GTO's and T/A's are EXTREMELY rare due to the fact that a missed gear with cast-iron connecting rods usually had disastrous consequences. Every single Small and Big Block Chevy had forged connecting rods and it's a shame that Pontiac skimped in the rod department. [/ QUOTE ] That goes double for the 455HOs! -big cube, oversquare motors with a low rpm redline. The first thing I did when I pulled the original 445HO out of the T/A was to toss the original cast rods in the corner. I bought a set of Eagle forged rods and used them instead. I was completely amazed that the engine lasted 114,000 miles with the original cast rods and a four speed. |
Re: FOR YOU PONTIAC DUDES, 70 GTO RAM AIR 4 PICS
[ QUOTE ]
looks like the stripes are off it now. Looks 100% better too http://inventory.bestofshowautomotiv...asp?VIN=131757 [/ QUOTE ] Yes, it does look beautiful! Best of Show, unfortunately, is known for their typos and incorrect descriptions, though. "The original fiberglass Ram Air IV hood was reinstalled" ??? |
Re: FOR YOU PONTIAC DUDES, 70 GTO RAM AIR 4 PICS
The way that car sits now, it reminds me of June, 1970 when I was at summer camp in Orange, Connecticut and one of the counselors, a local teenager, drove up in his brand-new 1970 GTO: Starlight Black with a red interior and that same rear wing.
That was the hottest car I had ever seen up to that point in my curmudgeonly young life. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/worship.gif...that was until July when I saw a B5 blue, Hemi Superbird parked at the beach in Orleans, Cape Cod. |
Re: FOR YOU PONTIAC DUDES, 70 GTO RAM AIR 4 PICS
[ QUOTE ]
These numbers-matching Ram Air IV, 4-speed Pontiac GTO's and T/A's are EXTREMELY rare due to the fact that a missed gear with cast-iron connecting rods usually had disastrous consequences. Every single Small and Big Block Chevy had forged connecting rods and it's a shame that Pontiac skimped in the rod department. It sure would have been nice if they had released those famous SD 455 Forged rods just a few years earlier. It would have saved some rare Pontiacs!Hey, does anybody know the story about the theft issue that occured with these forged SD 455 rods when they were released. They were big news and demand was high. [/ QUOTE ] talk about getting way off track of the original post but ... I was working at Pontiac from the summer of 71 through 74 as a General Motors institute student. 6 weeks of work at the plant then 6 weeks of school in Flint. The SD assembly area had to have a cage built around it because of all the parts "disappearing" ... they finally installed metal detectors on the ramp to the plant but a lot of people had other ways of getting around it (them?) One burly plant electrician bragged to me how he had a complete engine at home that he had taken out a part at a time ... the block too he used a sling to hang it from his shoulders and took it out in the winter ... he was a BIG guy (in all directions) and wore one of those winter coats that goes down to your shoes, like the cowboys wear in Montana ... I think they are called slicks ... regardless, he was happy to brag to a kid in college how he had taken home stuff all the time. People had SD parts from back in the early 60's, one guy said he had the aluminum front end, all taken out a part at a time ... I was amazed that GM could make any money on their cars with all the slacking and stealing that was done ... |
Re: FOR YOU PONTIAC DUDES, 70 GTO RAM AIR 4 PICS
[ QUOTE ]
These numbers-matching Ram Air IV, 4-speed Pontiac GTO's and T/A's are EXTREMELY rare due to the fact that a missed gear with cast-iron connecting rods usually had disastrous consequences. Every single Small and Big Block Chevy had forged connecting rods and it's a shame that Pontiac skimped in the rod department. It sure would have been nice if they had released those famous SD 455 Forged rods just a few years earlier. It would have saved some rare Pontiacs!Hey, does anybody know the story about the theft issue that occured with these forged SD 455 rods when they were released. They were big news and demand was high. [/ QUOTE ] Yes, the bottom end of the Pontiac engine was always prone to breakage. That being said it also makes a numbers matching RAIV car all that more desirable. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif RM |
Re: FOR YOU PONTIAC DUDES, 70 GTO RAM AIR 4 PICS
I personally like the stripes on the car. I really think they make it look better!! It will be interesting to see if they pull that kind of cash out of this car in today's market...
Speaking of parts disappearing, I spoke to a guy who grew up in Canton, Ohio who said that when Winters Foundry was up and running and making all the big block aluminum intakes and aluminum heads for the Chevy Motors more of them would "go over the fence" and into the hands of teenage kids building race cars back then... Rich |
Re: FOR YOU PONTIAC DUDES, 70 GTO RAM AIR 4 PICS
Back in the 90's when I worked at a Chevy dealer,all the old timers had stuff that got snabbed out of the back door. Scottie still has 3 L88 crate motors, 1 on a stand, 1 in his Tahiti boat and 1 still in a crate. Its amazing listening to them on what they payed for and what stuff cost back then.
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Re: FOR YOU PONTIAC DUDES, 70 GTO RAM AIR 4 PICS
Atoll blue is one of my favorite colors... it is beautiful...
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Re: FOR YOU PONTIAC DUDES, 70 GTO RAM AIR 4 PICS
really nice car,but you have to be on the pipe to pay 100k for it
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Re: FOR YOU PONTIAC DUDES, 70 GTO RAM AIR 4 PICS
[ QUOTE ]
Atoll blue is one of my favorite colors... it is beautiful... [/ QUOTE ] Agreed-- It's a great color. I had a 70 GP SJ455HO that was Atoll blue with a black interior. Was one of the best cars I ever owned. Sold it in the late 80's. MB |
Re: FOR YOU PONTIAC DUDES, 70 GTO RAM AIR 4 PICS
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Re: FOR YOU PONTIAC DUDES, 70 GTO RAM AIR 4 PICS
[ QUOTE ]
Car #16 is in the hands of its original owner. [/ QUOTE ] It's actually on the cover of Pontiac Enthusiast this month. The issue just hit the stands today! They bought it new on 01/05/1971. |
Re: FOR YOU PONTIAC DUDES, 70 GTO RAM AIR 4 PICS
Nice GTO. I have a similar car - 70 GTO, Pepper Green with black guts, M21, 4.33's, manual steering and manual drums. Purchase new in Richmond, In from Wells Pontiac, a dealer who sold a few notable Pontiacs. It's 1 of 325 or so RAIV 4 sp 1970 GTOs. Non-original engine, but I have located the original engine, which has been rebuilt and is to go into an original 1970 RAIV Judge. My engine has been built to Pure Stock Drags specs, but I've decided to pull the car off the frame for a complete resto.
Scott |
Re: FOR YOU PONTIAC DUDES, 70 GTO RAM AIR 4 PICS
Scott, I just checked out your website and you '70 GTO is one sharp machine! I can't wait to see it again someday re-sprayed in it's original color again with the dog-dish hubcaps! Ram Air IV, four-speed, manual steering and brakes, small hubcaps.......that's my favorite kinda Musclecar!
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Re: FOR YOU PONTIAC DUDES, 70 GTO RAM AIR 4 PICS
Scott, wasn't your RAIV car on E-Bay a while ago?
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Re: FOR YOU PONTIAC DUDES, 70 GTO RAM AIR 4 PICS
[ QUOTE ]
Scott, wasn't your RAIV car on E-Bay a while ago? [/ QUOTE ] I think it was on e-bay sometime in 2007. I didn't see it when the auction was going on; someone told me about it and put me in touch with the owner. Thanks, Scott |
Re: FOR YOU PONTIAC DUDES, 70 GTO RAM AIR 4 PICS
[ QUOTE ]
Scott, I just checked out your website and you '70 GTO is one sharp machine! I can't wait to see it again someday re-sprayed in it's original color again with the dog-dish hubcaps! Ram Air IV, four-speed, manual steering and brakes, small hubcaps.......that's my favorite kinda Musclecar! [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, I have to agree with you on that! I have two Judges, but prefer the understated look. This car just jumped ahead of them in the restoration order. Thanks, Scott |
Re: FOR YOU PONTIAC DUDES, 70 GTO RAM AIR 4 PICS
from MutiMopars
"One of the cars I posted about was a 1971 GTO Judge convertible 4 speed. People questioned me if it was a 70 or a 71 because of the color I listed. I was pretty sure that it WAS a 1971 but said it was over 35 years ago and i could be wrong. Well, yesterday I was on the phone with my old friend that he and I used to buy some cars together and flip. He and I were partners on this car. He was standing next to the guy we bought it from so I asked. They both said the car was a 1970 GTO Judge Ram Air 4 4 speed convertible." |
Re: FOR YOU PONTIAC DUDES, 70 GTO RAM AIR 4 PICS
This car (my friend's Ram Air IV Goat) will be going across the auction block Friday evening around 6PM on January 24th at the Mecum Auction in Kissimmee, Florida....
Lot F233.1 1970 Pontiac GTO Ram Air IV 400/370 HP, 4-Speed Rich |
Re: FOR YOU PONTIAC DUDES, 70 GTO RAM AIR 4 PICS
Car did 111K on the block tonight!!! WOW!!!!
Rich |
Re: FOR YOU PONTIAC DUDES, 70 GTO RAM AIR 4 PICS
That's strong $! Almost makes me want to put mine back on the market.
Scott |
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