Re: Motion Nova????
 

John, are they still at the same address?

Re: Motion Nova????
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lots of speed shops here back in the day. My mechanic buddy Al, was a dealership mechanic in Newark back in the day and still remembers a lot of the cars that were around back then...and still are.

I have a lot of receipts from this place that go with my hemi charger.

https://www.yenko.net/attachments/use...seyspeedad.jpg
</div></div>


so why would somebody drive to Long Island for speed parts, especially with THAT counter girl?

Re: Motion Nova????
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: x Baldwin Motion</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lots of speed shops here back in the day. My mechanic buddy Al, was a dealership mechanic in Newark back in the day and still remembers a lot of the cars that were around back then...and still are.

I have a lot of receipts from this place that go with my hemi charger.

https://www.yenko.net/attachments/use...seyspeedad.jpg
</div></div>


so why would somebody drive to Long Island for speed parts, especially with THAT counter girl?</div></div>

Hard up?

Re: Motion Nova????
 

Steve, my mistake...I was talking about California speed and sport which is in New Brunswick. I guess all the years of burnt rubber and cam 2 exposure must be taking it's toll ! California speed and sport was established in 1956 and is still in operation. The old Central jersey building is now a nail salon and a pizza place... I don't know if Dianne is still there but I guess you can still get paint (on your nails) and grease (on your pizza). I would bet that the Wickbergs made a trip or two to CS&amp;S for parts for the Charger.

Re: Motion Nova????
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lots of speed shops here back in the day. My mechanic buddy Al, was a dealership mechanic in Newark back in the day and still remembers a lot of the cars that were around back then...and still are.

I have a lot of receipts from this place that go with my hemi charger.

https://www.yenko.net/attachments/use...seyspeedad.jpg
</div></div>

She looks scared, lol.

Re: Motion Nova????
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hemicolt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: x Baldwin Motion</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lots of speed shops here back in the day. My mechanic buddy Al, was a dealership mechanic in Newark back in the day and still remembers a lot of the cars that were around back then...and still are.

I have a lot of receipts from this place that go with my hemi charger.

https://www.yenko.net/attachments/use...seyspeedad.jpg
</div></div>


so why would somebody drive to Long Island for speed parts, especially with THAT counter girl?</div></div>

Hard up? </div></div> there were no counter girls in auto parts around here,especially with cleavage. Lol

Re: Motion Nova????
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: markinnaples</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lots of speed shops here back in the day. My mechanic buddy Al, was a dealership mechanic in Newark back in the day and still remembers a lot of the cars that were around back then...and still are.

I have a lot of receipts from this place that go with my hemi charger.

https://www.yenko.net/attachments/use...seyspeedad.jpg
</div></div>

She looks scared, lol.</div></div>

and cowering down.
Maybe John Holmes was in the room...lol

Re: Motion Nova????
 

Ok guys most everyone on this site and the camaro site know Dan from over the years. I only met him once in person. When he came to look at a relatives Motion car. Did not know anything about him or his reputation on a few of these sites. My experience is that he went out of his way for free for complete stranger to help him document a motion car. Now everyone has herd a story or two of a owner of a motion car that may or may not be real for one owner. Then puff car gets sold and soon after that car is a real motion car! Yes Dan is a unique gentlemen and may rub some people the wrong way, but he has found many rare cars over the years and has helped people for FREE document there own cars. As for his nova, he does have a ton of stuff that points to it being a Motion car. I would bet almost anything that when this car is sold it ends up a DOCUMENTED Motion Nova at some point! JMHO

Re: Motion Nova????
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JD502</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok guys most everyone on this site and the camaro site know Dan from over the years. I only met him once in person. When he came to look at a relatives Motion car. Did not know anything about him or his reputation on a few of these sites. My experience is that he went out of his way for free for complete stranger to help him document a motion car. Now everyone has herd a story or two of a owner of a motion car that may or may not be real for one owner. Then puff car gets sold and soon after that car is a real motion car! Yes Dan is a unique gentlemen and may rub some people the wrong way, but he has found many rare cars over the years and has helped people for FREE document there own cars. As for his nova, he does have a ton of stuff that points to it being a Motion car. I would bet almost anything that when this car is sold it ends up a DOCUMENTED Motion Nova at some point! JMHO </div></div>

Okay, now we need to hear about the relatives Motion car. I am a HUGE fan of Motion vehicles and would love to hear what more about what they have.

Re: Motion Nova????
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JD502</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My experience is that he went out of his way for free for complete stranger to help him document a motion car. </div></div>

If he helps out to solidly document 100% an original Motion vehicle, then why not do that for his own Nova?

-Matt

Re: Motion Nova????
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fast67VelleN2O</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JD502</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My experience is that he went out of his way for free for complete stranger to help him document a motion car. </div></div>

If he helps out to solidly document 100% an original Motion vehicle, then why not do that for his own Nova?

-Matt </div></div>


MATT, I believe ( and this is JMHO) that he is not to friendly with Joel. (End this is hurting his chances of getting to the bottom of this matter) And he does have a ton of stuff on the car, and from what I believe even ex employees know of the car. I dont wanna speak to much on the documents and evidence he does have on this vehicle, as its not my car.
But like I said before if this car gets sold to anyone and is titled out of the current owners name. I would bet anything that this car is a documented motion car at some point. Can't bet the wifes new Tahoe she would shoot me:)

Re: Motion Nova????
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JD502</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fast67VelleN2O</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JD502</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My experience is that he went out of his way for free for complete stranger to help him document a motion car. </div></div>

If he helps out to solidly document 100% an original Motion vehicle, then why not do that for his own Nova?

-Matt </div></div>


MATT, I believe ( and this is JMHO) that he is not to friendly with Joel. (End this is hurting his chances of getting to the bottom of this matter) And he does have a ton of stuff on the car, and from what I believe even ex employees know of the car. I dont wanna speak to much on the documents and evidence he does have on this vehicle, as its not my car.
But like I said before if this car gets sold to anyone and is titled out of the current owners name. I would bet anything that this car is a documented motion car at some point. Can't bet the wifes new Tahoe she would shoot me:) </div></div> [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/haha.gif[/img] Thats funny!!! I agree with you JD502. I know Dan as well. Not a bad guy. Does have alot of info on this car. What it all entales I'm not sure. Sadly , he and his car are constantly under speculation by the upper eschalon of the hobby. A while ago I got a box in the mail just before Christmas from Dan. It was an old VHS tape converted from 35mm film. On that tape was old Drag races which a good many cars at the races were Baldwin Motion 1st Gen Camaros and a few Vettes as well as some badass Novas.All vehicles were New York Plated. Like I said he's always been ok to me. I do recall though him telling me that the car he has created some hostility between Joel and himself.

Re: Motion Nova????
 

Does anyone know if this Freddy Calas guy is still alive??? This guy Dan mentions his name all thoughtout this whole ordeal as well as the ex Motion mechanic. What was that guys name??? Why not get something documented from them as well? Granted Mr Rosen might not remember the car but it is a possibility that maybe one of his employees worked on the car? Was Mr Rosen always at the shop everyday? Also has anyone given the thought that maybe this guy Freddie just purchased all the motion parts over the counter and had them installed at a different shop closer to his home? Though it was only a 44 mile drive from Elizabeth NJ to the Motion shop out on L.I., it's a long a*s drive. You'd have to go over the George Washington Bridge, down the Major Deegan then over the Triboro or Whitestone Bridges then down the Van Wyck to the Belt Parkway then out Sunrise Hwy to Motion. What was the normal turnaround time for a conversion to take place?? He'd have to leave it there for a cpl of days then drive all the way back out to motion to pick up the car? It only seems logical that he would buy the parts to do the conversion himself. I would have to believe that there were alot of speed shops out in NJ back during that period. Just wanted to put that thought out there and not trying to step on anyone's toes.

Re: Motion Nova????
 

I *think* Dan told me that the mechanic remembers the car well, not sure if he notarized anything though. I know the guy was up there in age from what I remember Dan telling me. I think the mechanic is on the outs with JR as well?

Heck, look at Roger D, the orginal owner of a DH COPO, with his original paperwork that he cannot get &quot;certified&quot; on by the DH group.

Who you run with can mean the difference in this hobby, and I can genuinely say that Dan is an honest guy.

I agree that in the right hands, the car would probably get paper.

RichP

Re: Motion Nova????
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: robber6910</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does anyone know if this Freddy Calas guy is still alive??? This guy Dan mentions his name all thoughtout this whole ordeal as well as the ex Motion mechanic. What was that guys name??? Why not get something documented from them as well? Granted Mr Rosen might not remember the car but it is a possibility that maybe one of his employees worked on the car? Was Mr Rosen always at the shop everyday? Also has anyone given the thought that maybe this guy Freddie just purchased all the motion parts over the counter and had them installed at a different shop closer to his home? Though it was only a 44 mile drive from Elizabeth NJ to the Motion shop out on L.I., it's a long a*s drive. You'd have to go over the George Washington Bridge, down the Major Deegan then over the Triboro or Whitestone Bridges then down the Van Wyck to the Belt Parkway then out Sunrise Hwy to Motion. What was the normal turnaround time for a conversion to take place?? He'd have to leave it there for a cpl of days then drive all the way back out to motion to pick up the car? It only seems logical that he would buy the parts to do the conversion himself. I would have to believe that there were alot of speed shops out in NJ back during that period. Just wanted to put that thought out there and not trying to step on anyone's toes. </div></div>


I drove 2 hours for my wifes Tahoe and got nothing out of it. I dont think 45 minutes is far fetched. If I had the extra money I would drive to Chicago to get a Nickey car in a second. Thats 10 hours away.

As for the ex mechanic He was alive a few years ago when I met him, Long before I knew Dan. And he told me a few stories of shenanagens with documentation of motion cars. ( yes it could be a pissed ex employee) But his motion chevelle was cool, and the pics of it getting worked on with Joel by his side where cooler. Only time will tell!

Re: Motion Nova????
 

Are you implying that we might live in a society where certain groups of people look out for each other and shun others that don't make the grade...lol
Really though, very good point. The world shouldn't be like that.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 69LM1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I *think* Dan told me that the mechanic remembers the car well, not sure if he notarized anything though. I know the guy was up there in age from what I remember Dan telling me. I think the mechanic is on the outs with JR as well?

Heck, look at Roger D, the orginal owner of a DH COPO, with his original paperwork that he cannot get &quot;certified&quot; on by the DH group.

Who you run with can mean the difference in this hobby, and I can genuinely say that Dan is an honest guy.

I agree that in the right hands, the car would probably get paper.

RichP </div></div>

Re: Motion Nova????
 

Tracy , you are 100% correct. The world shouldn't be like that.

Re: Motion Nova????
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: robber6910</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Also has anyone given the thought that maybe this guy Freddie just purchased all the motion parts over the counter and had them installed at a different shop closer to his home? Though it was only a 44 mile drive from Elizabeth NJ to the Motion shop out on L.I., it's a long a*s drive. You'd have to go over the George Washington Bridge, down the Major Deegan then over the Triboro or Whitestone Bridges then down the Van Wyck to the Belt Parkway then out Sunrise Hwy to Motion. What was the normal turnaround time for a conversion to take place?? He'd have to leave it there for a cpl of days then drive all the way back out to motion to pick up the car? It only seems logical that he would buy the parts to do the conversion himself. I would have to believe that there were alot of speed shops out in NJ back during that period. Just wanted to put that thought out there and not trying to step on anyone's toes. </div></div>

With all due respect, This was MOTION PERFORMANCE !! not just any speed shop..Imagine a guy came from Mexico and picked up a Motion Chevelle....and then drove it all the way back to Mexico...and he even had with a Motion Camaro tow-barred behind !!! I do not think driving from North Jersey to Long Island is such a stretch...jmho

Re: Motion Nova????
 

These days it takes about the same amount of time to get to Long Island from Jersey as going from Long Island to Mexico. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img]
The traffic is nuts, I tell ya!

Re: Motion Nova????
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: iluv69s</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: robber6910</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Also has anyone given the thought that maybe this guy Freddie just purchased all the motion parts over the counter and had them installed at a different shop closer to his home? Though it was only a 44 mile drive from Elizabeth NJ to the Motion shop out on L.I., it's a long a*s drive. You'd have to go over the George Washington Bridge, down the Major Deegan then over the Triboro or Whitestone Bridges then down the Van Wyck to the Belt Parkway then out Sunrise Hwy to Motion. What was the normal turnaround time for a conversion to take place?? He'd have to leave it there for a cpl of days then drive all the way back out to motion to pick up the car? It only seems logical that he would buy the parts to do the conversion himself. I would have to believe that there were alot of speed shops out in NJ back during that period. Just wanted to put that thought out there and not trying to step on anyone's toes. </div></div>

With all due respect, This was MOTION PERFORMANCE !! not just any speed shop..Imagine a guy came from Mexico and picked up a Motion Chevelle....and then drove it all the way back to Mexico...and he even had with a Motion Camaro tow-barred behind !!! I do not think driving from North Jersey to Long Island is such a stretch...jmho </div></div>

Very good point!!

Re: Motion Nova????
 

In June of 2005 there was a 1970 chevelle motion car in Arizona on ebay. If I remember correctly the seller said in the ad. ( I have ad somewhere). Joel said he thought he remembered the car. The seller paid the 1500.00 and Joel said he did not have any docs on the car. The car was sold as a non motion chevelle. I believe now the car is a well documented Motion Chevelle. Maybe I'm reading into this a little to much,(which is probably the case).

Re: Motion Nova????
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JD502</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In June of 2005 there was a 1970 chevelle motion car in Arizona on ebay. If I remember correctly the seller said in the ad. ( I have ad somewhere). Joel said he thought he remembered the car. The seller paid the 1500.00 and Joel said he did not have any docs on the car. The car was sold as a non motion chevelle. I believe now the car is a well documented Motion Chevelle. Maybe I'm reading into this a little to much,(which is probably the case). </div></div>. Ring. Ring. Hello,this is bob. Hey bob,this is Joel in Florida. Just wanted you to know that there is a Chevrolet in Arizona that I think you should buy. I know you've been looking for one of my cars and it would behoove you to buy this car. Hint hint,

Re: Motion Nova????
 

Can we stop with the Joel bashing. If Joel didn't have any docs on the Chevelle but later it had them it could be that someone did more digging and found a prior owner etc. if you have facts, state them but don't put out stories that some guy said etc.

Re: Motion Nova????
 

I worked with Joel Documenting the Moray GT when I owned it, was it easy? No. did he say it was one of his right away? Nope, But when I found the guy who painted it the wrong color originally ( A bass boat green metallic, he sprayed the yellow over grey primer, DUH!) and when I found the guy who put the interior in the Car (Dondee, good guy, still in business) he remembered the car. Listen, I just turned 50, there are things I can't remember I did yesterday, and when I talk to people about, uhm, &quot;events&quot; and stunts I pulled in the 80's and they say, &quot;Ron! Do you remember when you did that?&quot; I can honestly say it takes a couple of days to jog my memory. Joel is a Good Cat and a legend. Honestly, chasing down info on this car was AWESOME! It was like openning up the Hands of Time and peeking back into these folks lives..I have two cars now I'm trying to document, one I believe to be a motion Car, but I wouldn't approach Joel with it yet, I don't have enough info yet....(then I gotta figure out this 68 roadster that I think is a yenko car, but that's another story)...I agree with Charlie, I think Joel is a good cat, I enjoy the time that I have spent with him and the stories, The Stories! Wow....

Re: Motion Nova????
 

Ron, what you've just described is really the crux of the matter when documenting a real Motion Perf built car....and that is that JR apparently did not keep all invoices for work they performed, but relies on photographs, NICB or perhaps input from others in his shop that may remember a particular car.
It also appears that, at least once, money has been sent for possible confirmation (Rich's Camaro) &amp; there was no response (I'm assuming the check was cashed). It's also apparent that at least 1 car got a verbal 'no', then later confirmed and I understand how that can be possible. But, very inconsistent and particularly for that seller
It's a question of the factual 'paper trail' evidence vs present day photographic/hearsay evidence and JR's memory and paying for letter printed on his stationary...perform your due diligence, know that real documentation matters and caveat emptor

Also heard thru the grapevine that the Iowa/ebay Chevelle with all the Motion evidence got a maybe letter and not a full confirmation...what does that really mean [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif[/img]

Re: Motion Nova????
 

I would love to know specifically what type of Motion Nova is the car in question supposed to be?


It makes no sense to bash Joel on anything to do with this Nova. If the right info can be presented to Joel, and it is compelling enough it will become a documented car. As of right now, it is very far from being even a Motion car, let alone a BM car.

There are a lot of people NOT commenting on this thread. I probably should stay out of it too, but here we are 3 pages into it and I'm entering in. It seems like several of the posts are from those who get frequent phone calls from Dan, especially when threads on his car come up. I'm reading many of Dan's speculations posted by others, which are far from having a healthy perspective on both sides of this situation. As much as Dan may believe these things ideas to be true, he has a jaded and flawed perspective but nobody will convince him of this. In his head he is justified. He is a passionate guy and wears his heart on his sleeve. Helps people when he can which is great for those people. All those positive points don't make up for when a guy's wrong. He needs to find more to support his claims and resubmit. Instead, energy has been spent trying to cast a negative light on Joel.

Again, what is the car supposed to be with all of this research? Any old pics? I've heard that Dan felt his Nova was the 1st L88 Phase III Motion Nova. How did he submit things to Joel? Does Dan still believe he has the 1st?

Was it the original owner, Freddy Calas buys a new Nova then goes to Motion for a Phase III treatment including L88, interior color change, exterior color change, tow tabs? Was Freddy a business owner or somehow independently wealthy to afford all of this? Was the car dealer traded and financed both on purchase and Motion conversion? There may be a paper trail in the financing then, plus it could then be a BM car! Other theories?

One of the strangest things with this car is the whole fuel line running through the interior of the car poking out near the small block heater hoes area in the firewall. Who does that? The single Dupree/Autopulse fuel pump claimed to be mounted under the car ain't gonna support enough horsepower.

He had lots of other vintage speed equipment in the trunk and around the car. When I asked where he got some of the components he said he didn't know. Either it came with the car or it came from somewhere else, and I don't think he forgot. At one point I felt there was merit to the possibility to his car being at Motion's shop. The more real motion cars I've had the chance to get up close and personal with- such as Lud's 68 Camaro, the further Dan's car becomes form anything of the sort. At best, it might have been in the Motion shop a little later in life. It is a shame Dan feels slighted by Joel, but more info is needed to support a Motion connection.


So are we talking BM, later L88 Motion conversion, or just been at the Motion shop? What is this Nova supposed to be?

Re: Motion Nova????
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can we stop with the Joel bashing. If Joel didn't have any docs on the Chevelle but later it had them it could be that someone did more digging and found a prior owner etc. if you have facts, state them but don't put out stories that some guy said etc. </div></div>

Charlie I have done nothing more then state the facts as they have been made public through ebay ads, and the current owner on that chevelle. And yes I have had family dealing with Joel and there has been the same song and dance as other people have recieved. NO ONE new about the car in question, but damm there was a hefty offer from a phone call a few weeks later. The truth is if you run with the right crowd things can happen for you! And this is not just in the automotive world. JMHO!

Re: Motion Nova????
 

So are we talking BM, later L88 Motion conversion, or just been at the Motion shop? What is this Nova supposed to be? [/quote


Only time will tell!!

Re: Motion Nova????
 

What is the Actual cost now a days for Joel to Document a car? I do have to say it probably is two cheap if it is still 1k-2k. the price value of these cars goes up so much with documentation. Of course it sucks if its not, but its like a winning lottery ticket if it is!
Anyone know how much it cost to get one documented now?

Re: Motion Nova????
 

2,500.00 $

Re: Motion Nova????
 

WENT UP A LITTLE BUT STILL NOT BAD IF YOUR CAR GETS THE GREENLIGHT!

Re: Motion Nova????
 

Well said PXTX - it's the complete investigation that yields answers to the &quot;why&quot; and &quot;how&quot; any modified car got to its current state. Charley can chime in, but that's probably one of the reasons why he prefers the unaltered survivor (no questions) cars. Others enjoy the research aspect of the modified cars. Whatever the original status of the car in question was - it's story deserves to be told. All owners, full photographic physical documentation, etc. It's a POTENTIAL treasure &amp; shouldn't be lost to history. JMHO

Re: Motion Nova????
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JD502</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Anyone know how much it cost to get one documented now? </div></div>

Joel may vary the fee with the value of the car. When I bought the two 1980's Motion cars, the fee was a lot lower then a higher value Motion car was at the time.

Re: Motion Nova????
 

I do not know this first hand, but I have been told numbers as high as 5 digits.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JoeC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JD502</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Anyone know how much it cost to get one documented now? </div></div>

Joel may vary the fee with the value of the car. When I bought the two 1980's Motion cars, the fee was a lot lower then a higher value Motion car was at the time. </div></div>

Re: Motion Nova????
 

I don't know about that. I remember we (my brother) were in the $2-2500 range. All I can say for sure is that this business of a &quot;maybe&quot;, and then the refusal to give you any paper stating the &quot;maybe&quot; stinks.

If you pay, you should get an answer in a report supporting that answer. To take someones money and then refuse to issue any written opinion chafes my butt.

On my car, I finally got the NICB showing Curry Chevrolet near motion a few years later and placed several calls into Joel with the updated information, even offered to pay a suppliemtal fee to get a yes-no or maybe. Never a return call.

I did (and this is firsthand, God is my witness) get calls from people I won't name to buy the car though after that.

RichP

Re: Motion Nova????
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bergy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well said PXTX - it's the complete investigation that yields answers to the &quot;why&quot; and &quot;how&quot; any modified car got to its current state. Charley can chime in, but that's probably one of the reasons why he prefers the <span style="color: #FF0000">unaltered survivor (no questions) cars</span>. Others enjoy the research aspect of the modified cars. Whatever the original status of the car in question was - it's story deserves to be told. All owners, full photographic physical documentation, etc. It's a POTENTIAL treasure &amp; shouldn't be lost to history. JMHO </div></div>


I know that is not always the case! cause original paint and untouched low milage car got a little better then maybe but not yes!!

Re: Motion Nova????
 

I have talked to Joel a few times on the phone and by email. He was always very helpful and pleasant to talk to. I don't understand the whole deal with the car that wasn't but now is a MOTION car but oh well. Joel told me when I was looking at a Camaro we believed to be a MOTION car &quot;Do your homework!!! Get all info that you can.&quot; I think alot of people think he some kind of a memory bank. I highly DOUBT a man in his 70's can remember every single car he ever had at his shop. I don't know nor will I pretend to know what transpired with other peoples conversations with Joel but I know he seems to me like the kind of guy that your attitude towards him is gonna reflect his towards you. Wasn't there a flood or fire that alot of documents got destroyed in? As far as Dan's Nova is concerned,Have any of you read Joel's letter to Dan reguarding the Nova? Now I consider Dan a friend but something bad must have happened between them because in the letter apperently Dan had asked for the doc fee back and Joel stated never before had he returned the fee but he would this time with the stipulation that Dan was not to have any further contact with him. Also ,in the letter Joel stated that his findings were inconclusive at best. He gave Dan the &quot;INFAMOUS MAYBE&quot;. Before you guys go riding through town with Joels head on a stick, maybe and this is just a suggestion, maybe we should find out exactly what happened between the two of them. Something had to make Joel tell Dan to basically leave him alone and refrain from contact with him. As far as the chevelle in question in one of the previous post, Its like Bergys Yenko, alot of people called B.S. on the car and because of Bergys determination and resourcefulness and detective work he now has &quot;The Yenko disquised as a Z/28&quot;. Maybe the new owner of the chevelle followed more leads, maybe he was a friend of someone who had the right docs and proof of the car. None of us know that is why we question it. It would be nice to be able to hear both Dan and Joels side but I doubt thats gonna happen.If anyone out there knows any info on Dans car, share it. And maybe it will help to put this nightmare to bed for both sides.

Re: Motion Nova????
 

From my personal Experience ,Joel told me $2500 to research my car(72 corvette widebody) last year.I did not have the cash,and it could come back no or even maybe so it's a gamble..However,Joel is a really nice guy, and replies quickly,none of the other Corvette modifiers even replied..He told me via e-mail that my car looked like their parts and that he didn't know if they built it or not and the only way to tell would be a $2500 non-refundable fee..which I think is reasonable if you think you have a high-dollar car you may want to part with for cash later on..I not only did not have the cash, but I had nothing really to aid in the research either.

Re: Motion Nova????
 

The fee has been $2500.00 for the past few years. That is a hefty hunk of change for an inconclusive letter. I didn't mean to make it seem like I doubt Dan's car. I don't doubt that it could be the real deal. I just don't understand all the animosity toward the whole subject of it. So many people are quick to give Dan a boot in the ass and send him on his way. It almost like Dan saying he has a BABE RUTH baseball you can't read the writing but research proved it to be real but a certain historian claims other wise and says it belonged to Babe the Pig from childrens movies. The car does have a lot of tell tale signs. I just wish it could be provrn one way or another without a doubt.