Year
 

Hello,
What model year was the Pontiac ?
Thanks,
Drew

Gary (muscle_collector) I was thinking again about our conversation yesterday and have to think the text and e-mail you got were the result of too many uncle-brother-cousin once had stories. That when these guys get confronted with an actual recollection from a no bull kind of guy like yourself, they naturally find it hard to believe.

For those of you who don't know Gary, here's a picture that I'm pretty sure has been posted here before (probably by Steve Hoog), it's Gary's garage taken years ago. Just so you know what you are looking at, at least one of those TA's is a IV, the blue convertible with the black top is the 71 4spd Judge Convertible Milt restored in it's day-2 Cadillac hue and correct me if I'm wrong but was that your 69 TA convertible under the white cover in the back that Rob now has?

If Gary tells a story, you can damn well bet it's true.

Looks like a '64?
:hmmm:
~ Pete

.

So what is the consensus now on number of ZL1 Vette's?

1 Yellow (Rogers)
1 White (Chestaky)
1 Orange (GULF car)
1 Blue now (Larry Cain mentioned)

That's 4.

+1 Duntov's White car that was supposed to be trashed.
+1 That Muscle Collector posted about in post #33 that was crashed.

So that would be 6 of the mentioned 7 duskblue mentions in post #13. So I was wondering, maybe some of these cars were NOT supposed to leave GM and go to the crusher? Like Dontov's car.

Yes, that's correct.

The '64 2+2 is more like an Impala SS than a GTO. In 1965, it truly became a performance package.

the one I posted about, I believe has to be the one that larry talked about. doubt very serious that there would have been two of them sold new in tulsa

Sorry Gary, I thought in the post #33 that the body was thrashed and therefore gone, and that's how you got the motor? If so, my mistake.

Just trying to find out as much as I can about these cars. I'm involved with a shop in Ontario and were getting a rece deal going where rules (which are NOT finalized yet) will be fairly open, but MUST use factory STEEL wheels and MUST use dual plane intake. I have a nice set-up now with my '69 Nova and the ZL-1 in it. But would like to get a nice '69 Vette roller and do a "cloned" '69 ZL-1 Vette. Interior color will end up dictating the outside color, but if I have a choice I would go gold with tan interior. It would get the black strip like Roger's yellow ZL-1, but add the Motion style black around the back and down the center to the hood.

Looking for a A/SA or even older SS chassis.

ok I might be getting confused, sorry, I thought you were talking about ones built new. yes the one I got the engine out of was destroyed. what I was saying was it has to be the one larry was talking about being sold here or being here in tulsa back when new or fairly new. sorry if I got things twisted on that.

Some guy Eubanks has apparently had this in his 100+ car collection for decades in North Carolina. Saw a Hagerty video today with Tom Cotter and while the camera passed over it, Cotter never even acknowledged its presence....makes me wonder, L88 or....

----My 69 435hp Corvette, bought new from Ed Stinn in Cleveland, had a factory L88 hood installed within weeks of the purchase date. I had to trim the air cleaner hole in the bottom for clearance of the triangular air cleaner...….Bill S

Ok, so the picture on the first page of the Blue car, IS IT A REAL CAR or made up? Mr. Cain state's he saw a ZL-1 cpe in the thread from his post. Is this blue one in the picture a convert with a hard top? Much like the "GULF" car? Meaning possibly 2 Blue '69 ZL-1 vette's one cpe and one convert?

Gary your timeline on the engine is 83/84 and the picture on the first page is 80's and the car is clear registered. So if you did get a Vette ZL-1 engine of the guy, and this one is legit, would that not make a min of 6 '69 ZL-1 Vette's to be accounted for to date?

well then I guess the one that my engine came out of obviously isn't this one pictured. I just assumed back then (and now) that it was the one larry had talked about because of it being here in tulsa area. however, im sure some of you guys remember howard kirsch from here in tulsa that had the large vette collection. I was friends with his daughter growing up and when I was in high school mr kirsch and I were talking vettes and he said that they made several more than most people think of the ZL1 cars. I don't know anything other than heresay to that.

Did you read the Super Chevy article I posted? I'm betting it is the same car - convertible, optional removable hardtop, blue - and thus has no docs and no pedigree so would have to be accepted as a car that has simply had a ZL1 in it for a long time, that's it. No docs, no dice.

And the Chestaky white car has been a known entity since the early to mid-eighties, yes - VIN, docs, etc.

GULF car docs

I first met John in the mid/late 90’s when he brought his beast to the Autumn Leaf Festival in Clarion, PA. John was up here because he had friends / ties to the area. On his windshield show card he had written “1 of 7 built” which of course led me to strike up a conversation with him having known for a long time that “2 built” was the accepted amount. He told me of how he physically stood in a holding lot looking at each one of the 7 (his included) before his was shipped to the dealer. I don’t remember the particulars of where the holding lot was (but remember envisioning it being the Corvette plant as we talked). I was able to get John’s number from a friend of mine (who mounted the 1st set of slicks for it at the Quaker State Service Station in Clarion) and shared that with Rob Clary who called John and discussed the car quite extensively.
As for the Yenko mention I think there is some confusion there. John’s father owned a large trucking company and all of his truck tractors were ordered through the Yenko dealership. Having purchased as much as his dad did put the Mahr family in pretty good standing at and with Yenko. Why it came through West Penn I don’t recall. I know that my (and John’s) friend Jimmy Stewart (not THAT Jimmy Stewart) was with him when the car arrived. John took Jimmy in quite a few harrowing rides from day 1.
I have no reason to doubt John, Jimmy and Burr who were around the MO ZL1 from the very 1st day.

duntov's toy was thrashed at the proving grounds not trashed.

The Vintage All-Aluminum 427 Big-Block Chevy V-8

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/vint...lock-chevy-v8/

Just showed up today

What a great day to be alive this must have been. The sounds out of those pipes at full song must have been heavenly.

update
 

Hello Tracker1,
The shark body Corvette photo.
The hood is not typical factory production L-88. (too high)
The front driver side marker light is used with a 1970-1972 model.
The photo is NOT a 1968 or 1969 convertible.
Regards,
Drew Papsun

Yes, I think you're right Drew. I believe you mean passenger side turn signal, in the grille?

update
 

Hello Tracker1,
Yes, The side turn signal light.
The 68-69 light is shorter and the 70-72 is longer.
The photo is to dark to see the grill light.
Regards,
Drew Papsun

John Mahler was certainly "in the know" - to say the least - when he ordered that ZL1, if this is the same John Mahler who piloted the Owens-Corning L88:

update
 

Hello Tracker1,
The John W. Maher is the person who had the 1969 Orange ZL-1.
The photo of the co driver is John Mahler.
The spelling is different of the 2 names.
Regards,
Drew

More than one recent source lists it as Mahler. The Penn Garage invoice is possibly a misspelling of his name.

update
 

Hello Tracker1,
I see your source of the the spelling the name in the magazine.
I see the name on the dealers invoice.
I think the magazine misspelled the last name from the writer of the story
The dealer invoice has the correct spelling.
Thank you,
Drew

Not sure why the tank sticker of the Orange ZL1 has the actual RPO ZL1 code listed. My understanding is it should be L88, as Judski's yellow car is - but I have to go find my pics of the Judski tank sticker to make sure

You are correct in that John's last name is Maher

When I transferred from the assembly plant into engineering, the guy I replaced (he was retiring) had worked for Duntov.

He said Duntov would fire that stuff up right in the Chevrolet Engineering building and then go "rump rump"-ing through the hallways and out to the test track at the Tech Center.

He also said you had to keep your eyes (and ears) open or you'd get run over.

K

Where is this car? Has it been located? It was also at the 1970 Press Event with the LT1 Corvette etc. IT is a 68 Body with Stingray emblems and no antenna with Head rest seats.
https://www.yenko.net/forum/attachme...1&d=1545424927

Another pic of it

Please take this in the spirit it was written, personally I have no dog in the fight, don't care if there were seven or two ZL1's. Do care that facts are facts and can't or shouldn't be changed.

Attached here are two dealer invoices same car? with the same signatures?, dates, and invoice numbers but different dollar values and terminology.

Draw your own conclusion.

The first one has font issues....

The motor stamp numbers are different, one in August and the other October? One has the 427 motor listed as $1,000 plus the $3,000 alluminum ZL1 the other just the $3k.

So I looked at Judski's yellow car's tank sticker (thanks rsinor) and it is way different than the Maher car. As the yellow car is the gold standard and is a known ZL1 since the late 1970s
(Vette Vues Magazine in March 1980), the tank sticker has L88 as the listed RPO FIRST, then down near the bottom is ZL1 ALUMINUM CYLINDER BLOCK. Which is what I found weird about the orange car's sticker: no mention of L88. It should be there as the ZL1 block is simply a substitution INTO the L88 package on a Corvette, replacing the L88s iron block.

My 2 cents, and THIS IS JUST LITTLE OLD ME EXPRESSING AN OPINION, not disparaging the car or John Maher (unless he paid for fake docs then that's fraud), but even if I had the money to have Kevin McKay restore a Corvette for me - and that must be astronomical $$ - it would NOT be the Maher car. There's just owner oral history there, and that's not enough. I don't trust the docs on the Orange car, now, as far as I could throw them.

Vette Vues March 1980 picture of tank sticker for yellow ZL1 Coupe, compare to Maher car tank sticker I posted earlier.

got a question for the guys who know, why do I see some of the "L88" (put in quotation marks as probably more are fakes than real ones) have the emblem at the rear of the hood scoop instead of the front of it? which is correct? did all the originals say 427 or did any come with L88 call out?

The L88 emblem on the hood is an add on. Real L88 hoods had only the 427 numbers on them.

----Only L88 emblems from GM are decal style. As far as I know, and I bought a 1969 3000 mile original L88 Monaco orange convert from the original owner, there were no actual L88 callouts anywhere but on the console. New owners to the L88 family really want to announce their arrival. I guess the hood alone isn't enough for those guys. The 427 emblem is correct as SBR has stated.

----As usual with all of us, I really wish I wouldn't have sold it!!!......Bill S

and it should be at the front correct??

----Yup! If its a factory hood the holes should be there......Bill S

The orange and yellow 1969 RPO ZL1s are both at Bloomington this week, is this the first time both have appeared at the same event? Timely show, especially as recently uncovered ZL1 development documents in the GM Heritage Center seem to be starting to clear up some of the mysteries and myths of the 1969 ZL1s. One GM document reportedly temporarily authorizes closed chamber heads specifically for type L88/ZL1 engines with M40 automatics right before the orange car was built, so sounds like that debate can be put to rest. Has anyone had a chance to see the documents in person at Bloomington?