Re: latest Jim M. Chevy records rumor
 

what will this information consist of? copies of build sheet, window sticker.. etc? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]

Re: latest Jim M. Chevy records rumor
 

I will bet ALOT of the guys that knownly own clones won't have a clue that this info is even coming. By the time they do , it will to too late, the info will already be in smart buyers hands. I will soon be possibly in the market for a '69 L78 or L34 Camaro. Just wondering now if I should hold off until the info is released. HUmmmmmmmmmm........ [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]

Re: latest Jim M. Chevy records rumor
 

The guys building clones will not have a problem. It's the guys building fakes.

Re: latest Jim M. Chevy records rumor
 

If Jim can stray away from the project for 5 minutes and give us a quick update, that would make everyone happy. Doesn't everyone agree? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif[/img]

Re: latest Jim M. Chevy records rumor
 

I agree. I've been following this chain and I finally signed up as a member because I had to put my 2 cents in. I'm curious about where Jim has found all this information. I've been told by my GM sources in Detroit that all records by VIN were kept by individual plants prior to 1970. They've also been beating the bushes from the inside for years looking for stuff and have come up empty. Did Jim contact every exsisting plant to see what was left? What about plants that are long gone? Or does the secret GM record "cave" actually exsist (I hope)? This would be a gold mine for guys that have undocumented cars and as everybody has pointed out a dung heap for counterfeiters. In my best Dr. McCoy voice- Jim, I'm a car guy, not a psychic!
Please talk to the masses...just a little...please?

Re: latest Jim M. Chevy records rumor
 

Speculation: What if the records available were those from Fisher Body, which maintained the Body numbers ,options and a corresponding Vin to the appropriate Vehicle and mfg,via an internal work order.

Re: latest Jim M. Chevy records rumor
 

Would that "cave" happen to be Iron Mountain? It would be nice if GM and Fisher have all the records stored there. Discovery Channel did a special on Iron Mountain a couple of months ago. They have everything under the sun in there(and then some)!!!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: latest Jim M. Chevy records rumor
 

It is really not my place tp distribute any info on this, but I can say that Jim and I are friends and that the records did exist, over the years finding their way to different locations, it has just been a case of beating the bushes and rounding up the cattle so to speak. Patience gentlemen, there is a God, his name is Jim, and it is just a matter of time before the heavens of Chevrolet muscle car history shall rain down the truth as to the origins of worthy GM iron. Have faith and the sins of the false prophets shall be exposed.....
Thanks,
Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif[/img]

Re: latest Jim M. Chevy records rumor
 

All this teasing and anticipation sure is torture. That poor group is going to be overwhelmed with requests, I'm sure. I'll be in line too, hoping some data sheet exists on my '70 Nova.

I called the original owner of my car today to ask a question.... shame on me for continuing to ask the poor guy about specific options he may or may not have ordered on his brand new car back in '69. He really didn't remember for sure, and probably thinks I'm a nut for being so excited and inquisitive about an old car he used to own.

To him, it was his first new car, and he equipped it with the SS 396 package because that's what his buddies had. Aside from that, he wasn't a gearhead, performance enthusiast, or anything. He didn't even do any work on it, had it for five years, and then traded it for an El Camino.

Interesting differences... it seems like many guys would love to hear about their first musclecar still being around and would like to talk about it. My car's original owner really could care less. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Oh well, I'm rambling. Anyway.....

What is the rough timing for any information to be available? Late this year? Next year? 5 years? What kind of information can be anticipated?

Re: latest Jim M. Chevy records rumor
 

JIM PLEASE STOP THE TORTURE!!!!! IS THERE RECORDS OR NOT??!!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I already have a legit build sheet for my 70 Chevelle SS 454 so I am OK but if I did not I would be going nuts right now. What will these records consist of. I am not sure I understand why it is a secret.

Re: latest Jim M. Chevy records rumor
 

[ QUOTE ]
Speculation: What if the records available were those from Fisher Body, which maintained the Body numbers ,options and a corresponding Vin to the appropriate Vehicle and mfg,via an internal work order.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fisher didn't assign the VIN, Chevy did. So I don't think it would show on Fisher paperwork, esp pre-69.

But how about GMAC paperwork. They financed every car made and the options are listed on it.......

Re: latest Jim M. Chevy records rumor
 

Kurt,
I don't know that GMAC financed every car made. They did finance a majority and Floor Planned even more for Car dealers (which would be a great source of info. as you mentioned), but not every dealership Floor Planned/s Vehicles. I worked for one of the largest Chevy Dealers of the day and they paid cash for all their inventory.

Re: latest Jim M. Chevy records rumor
 

Vehicle shipping records of some sort is my guess...

Chevrolet contracted with a very limited number of shipping agents to move the cars and the original shipping order was similar to the window sticker with regard to the information it contained. I always thought that the transport agents would be a great alternative source of information to what GM originally had... That was always my theory anyway.

Wherever the information was accessed, I'd like to hear what the current status of the project is.

Regards,

Stan Falenski

Re: latest Jim M. Chevy records rumor
 

O.K. more speculation; How about info. from the NICB. Once the cars were shipped Motors Insurance Corporation insured them for the dealerships. Vins and some equipment listings are in the NICB data base which was provided for any dealer insured through MIC [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]

Re: latest Jim M. Chevy records rumor
 

I have only seen original selling dealer and shipping date information available through NICB. Never any option info and not all car's records are in the NICB database. It will be interesting to see what information is Jim finds after years of GM's denial that the info existed.

Re: latest Jim M. Chevy records rumor
 

Jim,

I know you are probably out there on the sidelines watching this thread. I just wanted to let you know I appreciate all the work you are putting into this. Please make sure you charge a good amount of money for these docs. Afterall, you are doing all the backbreaking work.(It probably is backbreaking, think of how much paper there must be, or maybe your eyes are getting sore if its microfiche.)


Thanks again,


Jason [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

Re: latest Jim M. Chevy records rumor
 

Jason,
That was a nice gesture thanking Jim for his work. He is aware of this thread but is a very busy guy who is focused, one concern is for every question he may answer it will only create a 100 more and it this point even he does not have all the answers. Considering he is the one responsible for the Pontiac documentation it will be likely the Chevy documentation will be similar consisting of build sheet, option codes, originating dealer etc. Have patience gentlemen and lets give him room to breathe, the info is coming, I speak to him on a regular basis so I will keep you updated as to the progress. If all goes well it wont be long, now you know what to tell your wife to get you for Christmas! Jim is a great guy who is putting forth a dedicated effort on this project, all those with genuine cars will be overjoyed at the results.
Thanks,
MotownMadman [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif[/img]

Re: latest Jim M. Chevy records rumor
 

Motown,

I did not in any way mean to incinuate that I wanted Jim to respond. I just felt that with all the questions that had been asked on this thread not many have mentioned all the hard work he must be doing. Everyone needs a pat on the back from time to time. Its funny the way words can be interpreted in threads like this. So, once again I will say, you're doing a great job Jim, take a breather and have a beer!
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

Jason

Re: latest Jim M. Chevy records rumor
 

Jason,
Amazing how things get crossed up. I was actually paying you a compliment for your sincere thanks. Being one of the greastest Chevy buffs of all Jim completely understands the serious collectors as from this site and their excitement at the idea of all the speculation being laid to rest. I am just as anxious as anyone else, this is like Indiana Jones finding the Lost Ark of The Covenant or the Holy Grail. I have a few cars myself that have been like the who dunnit butler mystery. There are many cars out there that dont fit with the common production practices of the time, many are assembled camp fire stories, while others may be special order one off examples which will change the accepted way of thinking. I was sincerely thanking you Jason for taking the time to say thanks, that is the kind of thing that makes it all worth while for Jim. With Pontiac as an example, this is really not a great profit effort, after expenses and paying rights the profit does not come near the effort. I would think that the primary motivation to Jims actions is knowing he is making a difference in cleaning up this hobby a bit, as well as elevating the pride we all have in our true classics. I thought it was rather classy on your part when you posted your note of thanks. I remember feeling the same excitement a few months before I got my drivers license, and a few months before legal drinking age. It is almost like being a little kid again at Christmas time going nuts waiting to open the presents. Jim just loves the Santa Claus bit, a little to skinny though, but just give it a few more beers.., whoops, I mean years! I know youre grinnin Jim! Plans changed, I will be seeing Al first of the week, but I will see you this weekend at the races.
Thanks,
Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Re: latest Jim M. Chevy records rumor
 

I sure hope all this comes to be. What a significant achievement. I think it would be just fascinating to search through the records from Chevy's glory days. I'm sure the feeling of brining these docs to light is plenty rewarding, enough to make up for the huge time investment it requires. Thank you Jim!

Re: latest Jim M. Chevy records rumor
 

Motown,
I have one question, what kind of fee is there going to be to Document a car???


Thnx Bud.

Re: latest Jim M. Chevy records rumor
 

Bud,
I cant say as it is not my project, but if I had to take a stab in the dark I would guess it would be similar to the Pontiac project of $35, but it could be more as it may be a great deal more research. I would not think it would matter much considering the values of the cars in todays market, what would it be worth to document a classic vs always having the speculation that it may not be real? How much more is a documented car worth over one that is not? The fact that the info becomes available will cut the existing numbers of every model by eliminating the counterfeit, so everyone who owns a real car benefits as values go up when the number of existing cars go down. A gold spanish coin was worth 20 times as much prior to Mel Fisher finding the Atocha, so many coins were found they ended up on home shopping club. As supply decreases, demand and value increase, thereby making the documentation of the true cars priceless in the overall market. I have several I will pay whatever it takes to document. Jim and his crew are not out to make money, they are out to make the hobby more legitamite and honest. That is hard to put a value on. I have no way of knowing the cost, I am just standing back and cheering them on. Everyone benefits except the guys building fake cars. It dont get no better than that.
Thanks,
Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

Re: latest Jim M. Chevy records rumor
 

That sounds fair or maybe a great Deal!, I was just a little concerned that it may be like a grand or whereabouts, That may not phase a guy with a 100K car but it sure makes the guy with 20K car Hurt, It sounds like you speak for Jim a little when you say he is not out to charge a arm and a leg but more to get the Info out to all of us?.
Motown thnx for taking the time and keeping us updated, like a few guys have described
I have been anxious to see what he has found, and Hopefully Document all the great cars we have, once and for all!!!

Re: latest Jim M. Chevy records rumor
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am just standing back and cheering them on

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif[/img]

Motown, thank you for your efforts in keeping us up to date as best you can. It really is appreciated [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Re: latest Jim M. Chevy records rumor
 

On page 71 of the June '03 Hemmings is the "Parts Locator" article about "Past History Search" info for your car. The writer seems to indicate on pg. 72 that Chevy USA may have info available ( I called the 800 # and was told no specific info on cars over 10 years old, but they do have the "restoration" info pack available for Camaros, which I have). There is some good info and contact #'s for reference material.

Re: latest Jim M. Chevy records rumor
 

Check out the latest issue of Muscle Car Review (by Car Craft),spring '03. Great article and editorial on Jim (pg 5 and 70) and the whole project. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Re: latest Jim M. Chevy records rumor
 

can someone scan it and post it?

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I dont yet have the magazine to scan, but this is a photo of the car on the cover, "Worlds Rarest Camaro",makes it easy to spot on the shelf.
Motown
http://www.boomspeed.com/ezmatt/DSC00922.JPG

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Madman,

-------I recognize that driveway.Does anyone else?A huge amount of rare parts resides behind that house as well as rare cars.One my favorite guys in the world.........Bill S

Re: latest Jim M. Chevy records rumor
 

Bill,
Sweetheart of a guy, and yes he does have any part you could possibly imagine. If I need something I dont have to look far. Anybody that does need super rare and hard to find Chevy high performance Chevy parts Email, call, or PM me.
Thanks,
Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

Re: latest Jim M. Chevy records rumor
 

Been there 3 or 4 times myself. Where else could you find Nov 68 NOS ZL-1 heads???? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]
Peter

Re: latest Jim M. Chevy records rumor
 

http://stdev.scc.spokane.cc.wa.us/rv...h/68cv_z28.htm

Here is a link to a web site facts page about the Camaro in the photos Jeff and I posted, makes for some interesting reading under the photo.
Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif[/img]

Re: latest Jim M. Chevy records rumor
 

Hats off to the JM records search. I find it interesting that there are far more COPO's Z-car's and Yenko's that were ever produced in the market place today than ever. I found the article in Muscle Car Review ( August 12, 2003 )to be very interesting. The article quotes Jim Mattison that GM produced the Yenko 427's via the factory. Did Yenko just badge the cars? Additionally, Jim is saying the 67 car was possibly the only 427 conversion at Yenko. Help. I am searching for a 67 Camaro console with guage pack for my 67 SS L-88 car ( Motor from 69 Corvette ) Thanks much. Newcomer to this site. Joebuck [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif[/img]

Re: latest Jim M. Chevy records rumor
 

This sounds very interesting - just what we've all been waiting for. I joined this board just to participate in this discussion. For all the work involved, I hope that Jim Mattison & company do make a good profit from this endeavor - he/they deserve it.

I've corresponded a few times with Alan Colvin (we both own the same type of car - a 1971 GMC Sprint SP-454). This is exactly the type of thing that Alan would be interestd in (and good at). So it wouldn't surprise me if he is in on it too.

As far as the records go -
One theory I've heard is that the US Government has records on all motor vehicles including the VIN, options installed, color, etc. Auto manufacturers were required to report this data to the government, and the goverment used the data for "law enforcement" purposes among other things.

That sounds plausible. For example, the FBI was able to eventually track down the Oklahoma City bomber based upon the VIN found on the axle housing of the Ryder truck used.

The topic of "fake" cars has always been of interest to me. My expertise is in Chevelles & El Caminos. I always get more than a little miffed when I see a fake car passed off as real. Especially when people pay high prices for a "rare" car and they believe that it is genuine just because it came from some celebrity's collection. I suspect that a very high percentage of the cars in celebrities' collections are fake because most of them purchase their cars at these big auctions (were a lot of fake cars are sold, I believe). For example, last January there was a '72 SS-454 Chevelle convertible up for auction in Scottsdale. The TV commentators stated how the cars in the auction were thoroughly checked out and legitimate. That '72 Chevelle sold for over $35,000. A real one is quite rare and worth that. But I happen to know that the car auctioned had a 350 V8 VIN.

A while back I put together a site with info on how to tell a real '68-'72 SS Chevelle or El Camino from a fake one. I believe my site has the best and most accurate info available on this topic. Of course, once the JM data comes out, it will be the ultimate source.
My Chevelle SS identification site is located at:
http://www.chevelles.com/shop/ss_ident.html

I wonder if the JM data will provide insights on production totals for various cars. For example, wouldn't it be great if we knew how many '69 SS-396 4-speed Chevelle convertibles were built !? Once again, lacking concrete data, I came up with the next best thing. I did a lot of research and estimating on how many of the various '68-'72 Chevelles were built with each of the different engines. Here is the result:
http://www.designscomputed.com/auto_...ody_68_72.html

I'd sure like to have all the GM data to do more automotive publications like the one above !

PS:
Mowtown, If Jim is having difficulty interpreting some of the '71-'72 Chevelle data, I may have a useful clue. After studying Chevrolet's '71-'72 Chevelle & El Camino RPO totals report, I discovered that the GMC Sprint production totals were lumped into the Chevelle production reports.

Re: latest Jim M. Chevy records rumor
 

I have the new Muscle Car Review magazine with the two articles on the documentation project, I dont have a scanner, but if anyone does have a scanner who can post them here I can fax a copy to that person.
Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

Re: latest Jim M. Chevy records rumor
 

Jim,
I see you are on line this morning. Chime in and give us the latest update. Thanks for your continued efforts to bring us these records. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif[/img]
Rick