Re: 70 GTO RPO codes question
 

Would have to guess the same designer did the 71 Vega... as for why Ponchos had 10 bolts and drum brakes, maybe it was because they were slow. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: 70 GTO RPO codes question
 

Ding Ding Ding...you win! You guys are too good. I'll keep trying to get "Tim" involved in this site... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: 70 GTO RPO codes question
 

Technically that was the XP-887,but the same car none the less. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/wink.gif

Re: 70 GTO RPO codes question
 

[ QUOTE ]
Great question Eric! Do you think it has something to do with the 10 bolt rear in Pontiacs and 12 bolts in Chevrolets?

[/ QUOTE ] Definitely not differential related, what would the rear have to do with power discs in front...it didn't on a 69-70 Camaro SS...you got discs in front regardless of whether it was a 10 bolt or 12 bolt car. Besides...this GTO has a 12 bolt as did all 455 powered Goats, and no discs in front. It's documented Pontiac practice...it just doesn't make sense when the cheaper Chevrolet line included saftey RPOs like power discs into their performance RPOs like SS and Z/28, but the more upscale Pontiac does not. Must be a pricing thing.

Re: 70 GTO RPO codes question
 

[ QUOTE ]
Would have to guess the same designer did the 71 Vega... as for why Ponchos had 10 bolts and drum brakes, maybe it was because they were slow. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
YOU BASTARD!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/mad.gif ILL PUT MY RAM IV WITH THE 10 BOLT AGAINST THAT YENKO SMENKO OF YOURS ANYDAY!!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/tongue.gif AND THEN YOU CAN CALL ONE OF YOUR BIG BROTHERS WITH THE MIGHTY 427 AND ILL CLEAN HIS CLOCK TOO!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/wink.gif
JUST KIDDING JOE https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif SLOW MY ASS............BASTARD https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/Charley.gif

Re: 70 GTO RPO codes question
 

Wow look at that blue smoke...that sucker is burning some serious oil. hey, what's GTO stand for again? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/wink.gif

Re: 70 GTO RPO codes question
 

GET TURNED ON !!!!

YOU SHOULD TRY IT SOMETIME!

Re: 70 GTO RPO codes question
 

Oh I thought it was Gas, Tires, and Oil... the 3 things it burns... well 2 out of 3 of 'em anyhow... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: 70 GTO RPO codes question
 

Hey this is "other muscle" Pontiac can take center stage here! Love that 69 blue RAIV Don.!!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/burnout.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

Re: 70 GTO RPO codes question
 

hey Don, is that baby coming out this summer? Can't wait to see it..

Frank

Re: 70 GTO RPO codes question
 

While the mighty ram IV is burning stuff, the schmenko will be toastin on down the track - just 'Humblin' another one https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: 70 GTO RPO codes question
 

Can anyone give me a legitimate answer to this power brakes question?

It doesn't make any sense to me why you couldn't order a small block 300HP SS Camaro in '69 unless you got power discs in front, but a much heavier 455 powered GTO only needed the standard 4 wheel manual drums in '70? How about other GM lines...were power discs a mandatory option included in the Buick GS package, how about Olds 442? Was it only Chevy that mandated the power disc option in conjuction with it's 69 and newer high perf packages like SS and Z/28?

When GM made "rules" they typically went across the board...no larger than 400 cubes in a mid size car pre-70, a locking steering column was adopted across all of the GM line in '69...and at Chevrolet power brakes were required with Super Sport or Z/28 simple as that, but not anywhere else?

I agree it was a smart safety concern, but it just doesn't seem to make any sense why power brakes were a must have on Chevrolets but not on Pontiacs?

Re: 70 GTO RPO codes question
 

BOY YOUR REALLY HELL BENT ON THIS QUESTION ARENT YOU? ITS A SIMPLE FACT. THE GM AT CHEVY BELIEVED THAT ALL SS CARS SHOULD BE EQUIPPED WITH DISC BRAKES AS STANDARD EQUIPMENT AND THE GM OVER AT PONTIAC DIDNT BELIEVE SO. ITS THAT SIMPLE! ALOT OF DRAG RACERS WOULD RATHER THEIR CAR HAD DRUM BRAKES [LESS FRICTION] https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: 70 GTO RPO codes question
 

[ QUOTE ]
Can anyone give me a legitimate answer to this power brakes question?


[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Supercar Kid...This is Tim's response:

[ QUOTE ]
I may have this one wrong, but as I recall, Chevrolet Division had the "lead" in developing disc brakes so they would have had 1st shot at usage.
In those days, GM had what was called an "Orange Book" that outlined which Car Division had "design responsibility" for given components. Possibly someone in your forum has a copy of this document - - it would be very interesting to read it now.

The disc brake and wheel width transitions in 1969/1970 were confusing.
Option proliferation was driving the plants crazy and the performance era was adding significant end items to final assembly. There was also the "low advertised price" culture at the time. Muscle cars were competing for baby boomers' first pay checks - - even common sense options were not made standard (like brake/wheel upgrades, gage packages, power steering, "heater cars," and steering wheels).

One other thought, but only speculation. Often there were capacity constraints, especially with emerging new options(idling drum brake capacity and bringing-up disc brake capacity without losing total capacity). Even UAW got involved with different plants going down/up in employees. The Division GMs fought for the scarce options and the deciding vote was usually based on a volume consideration - - they did not want to over-extend applications so they would have sufficient supply for what they called "free expression" demand for any given application.

Terrific clip of your car. I like the front-end lift when you launched.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: 70 GTO RPO codes question
 

[ QUOTE ]
ITS A SIMPLE FACT. THE GM AT CHEVY BELIEVED THAT ALL SS CARS SHOULD BE EQUIPPED WITH DISC BRAKES AS STANDARD EQUIPMENT AND THE GM OVER AT PONTIAC DIDNT BELIEVE SO.

[/ QUOTE ]

C'mon Don...it's the WHY I'm after...not a reiteration of the obvious facts.

Xplant...thanks for your response. The notion of particular divisions having particualr areas of responsibility for development makes sense...but weren't disc brakes pretty well developed by 1970? They appeared on 1967 model Chevrolet's and were mandatory on most performance models only 2 years later. I don't think the reason GTOs didn't get disc brakes as part of the package had anything to do with Chevrolet's claim to the development of the braking system itself, or Pontiac's lack thereof as disc brakes were available on GTOs just not a mandatory inclusion like they were on Chevrolets.
I think we may be on the right track though. Anyone else have any insight or insider information from GM?

Re: 70 GTO RPO codes question
 

I think each division did their own thing with some options. My RA3 Judge convertible has non-power drums at all corners. 70 GTO's could be ordered like that. My 70 Olds W-30 has non-power discs, but disc's were mandatory on W-30 Cars. I know one thing, I should have put disc's on the Judge when I restored it. Kinda scary....

Re: 70 GTO RPO codes question
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think we may be on the right track though. Anyone else have any insight or insider information from GM?


[/ QUOTE ]

Supercar Kid...Tim worked as an engineer at pontiac for more than 10 years...He went though all the GM engineering schools right out of high school in the 60's...

I'll pick his brain a bit more on this... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif