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Re: 1969 Chevelle
With the unique characteristics an original Copo Chevelle trim tag has, it would be nice to see the trim tag on this vehicle.
The transmission vin and assembly stamp have evidence of numbers visible underneath. It looks like it was smoothed and re-grained when it was re-stamped. Its getting harder to tell anymore on some of these cars. |
Re: 1969 Chevelle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427strato</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi everyone. Its Doug, the original owner of copo 120.
6) I somewhat regress here as we need to discuss the original engine. I know the names of the individuals involved here however I do know the people and am still acquainted with the people I'm speaking about. I traded the Chevelle for a 68 427 Vette. That owner raced the car for a couple of years and then removed the motor and installed it in a 69 Nova. I know he pulled the wheels of the Nova in front of MacD..... one night with another friend of mine in the passenger seat. I am still acquainted with both of these people. Enough of the engine.</div></div> This quote is TRUE! Doug and I are from the same town, and I have meet/known Doug for 20/25+ years, but we are not long lost buddies, but we do know each other. The passenger in the above quote IS a friend, and in fact currently helping me on my new house. I mentioned this post to him and he said, "yep, I remember that well". The reason I quoted this, like what camaromb posted above, is regards to restamping. Doug KNOWS that the original motor was pulled YEARS ago and the body went to a new owner. It had the SB in it when it went to the wreaking yard. IT WAS NOT KNOWN IN ONTARIO, where the car was in the wreaking yard, that this was a 427 BBc COPO!!!! Yet in BC, the motor and trans "MAGICALLY" are rejoined?????? The owner of the '69 Nova is still around. I wonder if he knew what ever happened to his Nova and therefore the original BORN WITH engine for COPO 120???? If this is a restamp, and the facts are leading us to believe this IS, then why not just disclose that fact. Added to what camaromb stated about the trans, it just puts up to many red flags and "could" possibly be some shady practices going on for this 6 figure car!!!!! I'm not saying the current owner or even MONTEMAN did or knew about these issues, but the fact that the original owner KNEW the motor was LONG gone, pictures seem to indicate restamping on the trans as observed here, and that the floors of what people thought was a plain jane '69 Chevelle, look like show-room fresh, just seems a bit fishy to me, IMO. The buyer should do very good due indigents before buying this car, IMO! |
Re: 1969 Chevelle
I sure would like to hear how the block found it's way back to the car, assuming it's still not in the Nova.
More importantly, is how did the body survive the junkyard. That should be researchable given the owner history. I agree with MB on the trans. 136379B397120 to help with future searches. Cowl tag 6 ST69 13637 BAL255452 BDY TR 756 57 57 PNT 06DB1616 B M196587 8 |
Re: 1969 Chevelle
Green-to-blue must have been popular back then. I know of an FG 4 - speed COPO out of Van-T in Topeka that was "cloned" into an LB SS396 in the early 80's.
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Re: 1969 Chevelle
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Re: 1969 Chevelle
Hi here are the pictures of the cowl tag and transmission stamp. You will notice in the transmission stamp that the ghosting is the same number. Probably from when the holder was placed against the transmission. The owner asked me to post these pictures. Also to note that in the ebay ad it just states numbers matching. No one has claimed them to be born with. I had the pleasure to restore this car and I believe these parts to be original. But that's just my opinion.
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Re: 1969 Chevelle
I am no expert, but I have looked at one pile of Muncie stampings. The VIN stamp has what looks like an obliterated previous stamp under it. And the ghost stamp under the C in the Trans stamp looks more like an old 0 stamping than a C. The texture of that whole pad looks wrong, almost like it is a "inny" instead of an "outy" texture. Now, I could be all wrong, but I have a few M22 trannys , they are an investment for me and I would question this one for sure.
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Re: 1969 Chevelle
Looks like a bounce to me.
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Re: 1969 Chevelle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks like a bounce to me. </div></div>
I concur. The born-with block in my SD455 has at least three bounces of the same VIN stamp, maybe four, if your eyes are really good. The existing casting surface and the way the surface flows into the stamped indentations look age-consistent versus a restamp where the indented areas would be "sharper" or cleaner. |
Re: 1969 Chevelle
How would you bounce a 0 into a C ? And what are the stampings between the characters of the VIN Stamp then? Just wondering.
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Re: 1969 Chevelle
My trans stamp for comparison:
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...6-imgp2552.jpg |
Re: 1969 Chevelle
Hi guys. To me restamping a block isn't much different than if you have an incorrect alternator, carburetor or starter and you go out and get a proper date coded one; its still not the one that came with the car, however the car is still correct none the less. I guess the argument would be the engine is the heart of the car; whatever, it is what it is. I saw someone recently replace the full floor, from the cowl back, both quarters, trunk lid, both front fenders and a door; this isn't even much different that a re-body. That tag on the Chevelle sure looks good to me and the restoration job is impeccable. IF I had that kind of money I would buy that car back, of coarse, it doesn't hurt to have all of the original documentation for it, photographs from 1969 when it was new and the original emblem from the grille and dealer sign off of the back. I'm getting to old to even clone a car but if I was going to, that would be the one; I loved that car. Doug.
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Re: 1969 Chevelle
Doug, as we discussed on the phone, and when you put it that way as stated above, I see your point. In the grand scheme of things in life, the re-stamp motor isn't life threatening. YES we replace plugs, wires ALTERNATOR & CARBURETORS. So why not the major components like block, trans and rear end??? My only thoughts on that is MAYBE the car hasn't had as hard of a life, been pieced together from scrapes laying around a shop or is "more original"? Sorta like a nice survivor being possibly more desirable then a resto car. There only original once!
In a case where a high value car (such as this Chevelle) the re-stamp or "matching numbers" only leads to one thing, HIGHER SALE PRICE. I personally look at cars that are "NUMBERS MATCHING" as born with parts and therefore more original and subsequently worth or valued higher. But the post from the restorer just rubbed me the wrong way. They have "possibly" mis-lead a buyer, yet LEGALLY covered there butts, when he posted: " Also to note that in the ebay ad it just states numbers matching. No one has claimed them to be born with." That statement just seems misleading to me? I think numbers matching is born-with. But whatever!!!! |
Re: 1969 Chevelle
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Re: 1969 Chevelle
So how does a vin stamp bounce in aluminum produce the much heavier impression over the top of the very light partial characters? A first very light hit and then the stamp bounce produced the very heavy stamp impression? That makes no sense. So if it is two double stamps then, the guy stamping the Muncie after assembly barely hit it enough to get anything other than the partial C, and then fully stamped it properly? Then the next guy stamping the vin during assembly also barely stamped the vin, only enough to get 4 lower partial letter curves, and then had to fully stamp the vin properly? Both guys forgot how to stamp aluminum on the same trans, anything is possible I guess.
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Re: 1969 Chevelle
Doesn't have to be a bounce. Could be a second assembly line attempt. Here's a photo of the born-with block in my SD Firebird. There are four separate VIN stamps of varying depths. (All the same VIN, thankfully).
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-block_vin.jpg |
Re: 1969 Chevelle
Hello.
My father was the second owner of the blue copo, that was sold in PEI. The first owner was in the service, as Summerside had an air force base back then. Sometime after dad sold it, it was wrapped around a telephone post. Also, at some point after dad had it, perhaps related to the wreck, the 427 engine and manual transmission were transplanted into a local Camaro. Quite a few years ago, a gentleman in Halifax wanted to put the pieces back together. He had the car, but needed the engine and transmission, which were still in the same Camaro. He bought the drivetrain, and supposedly put it all back together. I have not seen the car, but assume that a good restoration was done, as I heard a small fortune was spent bringing her back to her former glory. |
Re: 1969 Chevelle
Thanks for signing up and posting that info.
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Re: 1969 Chevelle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: quik9r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: P.J.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yes I probably saw the car every night at Harvys I remember Turk though. I was also there the night the white 67 Camaro
302 came in 4 speed 456 gears,The first one in Torotno I beleive.. Shook the windows when it was idleing beside the building.The guys name was Ron I beleive He gave me a ride in the car up the 400 shifted the car at 7800 rpm in all 4 gears csared the S--- out of me.WOW. The car did 1260s in the quarter with tires and headers. The fastest car at the time was not a chevelle it was a 67 Boeumount was owned by a JIM ????.Dark green No one knew what he did to the motor to so fast.Man that brings back lots of great memories. PJ PJ </div></div> That dark green 67 Beaumont was from Streetsville, Ont I believe, L88 with lots of work. Quik9r</div></div> There was a Green 1967 Beaumont SD around our area called "Poison Ivy." BBC, 4 speed, straight axle. Fastest car around here. He was a friend of my dad's. When I saw the description above, I automatically thought of this car. It was also my parents' wedding car! |
Re: 1969 Chevelle
Welcome Clarkie [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]
Dan |
Re: 1969 Chevelle
The Blue COPO Camaro is still alive and intact in storage!
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Re: 1969 Chevelle
Mr motion was the billys car you are reffering to. I knew him well.That was a belmont car if its the same car.
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Re: 1969 Chevelle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clarkie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: quik9r</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: P.J.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yes I probably saw the car every night at Harvys I remember Turk though. I was also there the night the white 67 Camaro
302 came in 4 speed 456 gears,The first one in Torotno I beleive.. Shook the windows when it was idleing beside the building.The guys name was Ron I beleive He gave me a ride in the car up the 400 shifted the car at 7800 rpm in all 4 gears csared the S--- out of me.WOW. The car did 1260s in the quarter with tires and headers. The fastest car at the time was not a chevelle it was a 67 Boeumount was owned by a JIM ????.Dark green No one knew what he did to the motor to so fast.Man that brings back lots of great memories. PJ PJ </div></div> That dark green 67 Beaumont was from Streetsville, Ont I believe, L88 with lots of work. Quik9r</div></div> There was a Green 1967 Beaumont SD around our area called "Poison Ivy." BBC, 4 speed, straight axle. Fastest car around here. He was a friend of my dad's. When I saw the description above, I automatically thought of this car. It was also my parents' wedding car! </div></div> Welcome Clarkie. Al &#128515;&#128515; |
Re: 1969 Chevelle
Man , I would love to see some pics of that !
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