Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

I think that before the science of trim tags evolved, many folks changed trim tags on all kinds of cars. The originals were lost or tossed and a reproduction put on to reflect what the restorer wanted. Now trim tags are, with out a doubt, harder to fake than an engine block.
I owned a '69 Pace Car that burnt in a fire, the trim tag melted. If anyone rebuilds that car, they'd have to replace the trim tag with a reproduction due to the loss of the original. They could include all of the original data, but it would be a reproduction on an original Pace Car with the original engine (what's left of it). It would probably raise lots of questions.

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

"....It would probably raise lots of questions...."

As it should! A car that got burnt in a fire, lost it's tag, and got rebuilt - has a story to tell that will answer the questions.

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

If someone removed the winters casting mark on the aluminum heads ,does that mean the car isnt real???? You guys are forgetting that alot of people took off cowl tags to make the firewall and cowl area look cleaner,and others took them off to sand blast the body and they got misplaced . If this car is a canada docs car[or a US car with buildsheet],ill take it over any undocumented real tag car.There is a guy in CT that sells trim tags on ebay like they are jujubees,if anyones car went thru his hands in the past, theyd have a car with no tag for sure.I assume the way he got them is that he bought cars and sold them without a cowl tag,since 10/15 years ago noone even looked at them and wouldnt know if they were missing . To assume the car isnt real because a meaningless tag was changed is not being fair to the seller unless you know for a fact that something else is going on.

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

uh-oh...we agree again, Chuck.

SS

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

Nobody is saying that the car is not real, just asking for an explanation as to 'why' it has a fake tag. If the story is that the firewall was smoothed.... it was a racecar.... the original was lost.... whatever the reason, it's usually better to give the explanation up front as opposed to having the car go through this!

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

Why was an "X" code used if the car was built in the first week of December? According to CRG, the x code started in the 2nd week of Dec. Here is a link to CRG website:
X code facts

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think this thread has already got out of hand by a couple of individuals , they know who they are, the way i see it, is the owners of these fabulous rare cars have nothing to prove to anyone on this site. If you have a pocket full of money and want to buy a car of this caliber , go see it and I am sure you will get the whole story and proof on both cars , if I owned these cars i would not respond to all the wannabe car detectives with no money to purchase either of these cars,if you put your money where your mouth is, then, you would expect the owners will disclose all the information you would need to purchase such a high dollar rare car.there seems to be a few people on this site trying to get to the bottom of something for no reason ,just my opinion .

[/ QUOTE ]

I can think of 225 thousand reasons to get to the bottom of it.For that kind of coin I would be asking lots of questions especially on here and especially when a whiff of smoke is in the air.With statements like "wannabee detectives with no money to purchase either of them"It seems like there is an effort to put out the flames as well as fan them??.It's a gorgeous car nonetheless but it's at the point where correctly done clones are to me becoming more attractive at a third the cost,and no questions asked. Who the heck knows where this market is headed I think the top was a year ago and certainly would not want to be a broker flooring big ticket merchandise right now..but if I was it sure makes sense to have a third basemen doing damage control-can you dig it? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/headbang.gif

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why was an "X" code used if the car was built in the first week of December? According to CRG, the x code started in the 2nd week of Dec. Here is a link to CRG website:
X code facts

[/ QUOTE ]

thats the dead give away on that tag

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

So now you know that the tag isn't a replica of the original, cause it got smashed, melted or some other cockomany story. Its a made up tag. At best someone added the X66 number to the original info, at worst its a completly made up tag that bears no relationship to the original.

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

[ QUOTE ]
OK....I'm getting lost again. Somewhere in this thread someone points out a green COPO that has a fake trim tag. Somewhere in this thread is a link to the old thread on the same COPO. In the old thread the car was re-united with it's orig trim tag and engine ? If so where is it's orig trim tag ? Is this even the same car ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Charley , That COPO was discussed briefley in a thread over a year ago . Richard Englsh was selling a Shelby and he mentioned his fully documented " green with delux interior copo" . I beleive it is the same car. Both you and I participated in that thread and I asked Richard if it was a COPO I had heard about in my search for a 69 COPO for myself. Richard did say in that thread that this car had " quite a story" and mentioned his willingness to start another thread to discuss the car but I am not sure if he did or not.
I passed on the car only because I really want a car with no stories and I did not feel cofortible with this particular car. Not saying anything is wrong with it just saying I was looking for something that was an a known car with everyone on the same page as to pedigree and at the time I did not see enough information for the comfort level I was looking for. Here is a link to that thread should you wish to review.
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/show...fpart/all/vc/1

I agree with Mark. Fake trim tag for sure but the 12A date also hurts any argument that the tag is a replacement for a damaged tag as the info on this fake was not included on a 12A tag. Has anyone heard any explanation on why these cars have fake tags ?

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

No ChevyThunder we are all still waiting for a reply!! we all know one of the owners is a memeber on this site. so lets just sit patient and wait for a response!

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

[ QUOTE ]
uh-oh...we agree again, Chuck.

SS

[/ QUOTE ]

Like a green ls6 convert that was proven to have a restamped motor in it?

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

Steve,A bit off topic but im in dire need of some good xram pics,im told Jeff has your car in hawaii and would be willing to send some?

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

That L-89 is a pretty amazing car. I think that if I were interested in owning it I would settle for examination of the cowl and firewall vins. With the GM docs to back up the vin I could overlook a missing tag. It's great to know the history of these cars but just isn't possible in many instances. I've tried to track my cars and have history on most but not all and some of it is just hearsay anyway. I don't personally know this car or its owner but that paperwork represents an awesome combination.

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

Am I missing something? If somebody is interested in the car,why not phone Matt in Hamilton?

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

[ QUOTE ]
That L-89 is a pretty amazing car. I think that if I were interested in owning it I would settle for examination of the cowl and firewall vins. With the GM docs to back up the vin I could overlook a missing tag. It's great to know the history of these cars but just isn't possible in many instances. I've tried to track my cars and have history on most but not all and some of it is just hearsay anyway. I don't personally know this car or its owner but that paperwork represents an awesome combination.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to agree....if the body matches the paper this would be a cool car. Uncovering the background is also useful to determine value. People will put the car way down on their desirable list if there is persistent stories that haven't been addressed and look for another IMO. Not that L89's are a dime a dozen.

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

[ QUOTE ]
There may not be a line waiting to buy one but an L89 documented is gonna fetch some serious money still..real deal cars are still real money imho.

[/ QUOTE ]

So true ! Also, I know Richard and Phil to be very honorable and very good people. Not to mention the outstanding work they do.

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

Phil,
Yes the L89 looks amazing but as you well know not all cars are as they appear, especially some of the Canadian cars. The Canadian import sheets are great documentation and also incentives to save otherwise unsalvageabe cars.
With the right knowledge one can make a lost ownership claim In Canada for vehicles that don't exist in the record databases, such as the 5 ZL1s registered last year. Canadian paperwork is great but lets not forget its only a record of what came in to Canada many years ago. With the ability to get vin plates, trim tags, etc. sometimes all you may have in a rare car that is real is the paperwork!
In regards to the L89 in question I would like to see the vin tag, firewall stamp and the sheetmetal dates, it is original sheetmetal as described? Of course the original owner would solve all these issues. Unfortunately there is no record of him as of yet.
As usual, buyer beware without all the facts

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

Mark,
Well said and thanks for speaking up. This is one of the things, which make this such a great site!

I do not know the owners, restorers or even the car, in question so my response is not directed at them.

I just can't believe how naive some people can be. While "air" cars are not limited to Canadian doced cars there certainly has been a preponderance of them recreated in Canada, over the years.

While is seems that I may be in the minority, I'd rather have a car with a pedigree and verifiable history than one with no/questionable history and a stack of docs.

The car should be evaluated/stand on its own with docs as support.

While it would be ideal for all these cars to be "Survivors" with complete docs, the brutal facts are that such cars are a very select percentage of the total population.

Also, Since when is it not OK to ask a valid question regarding a car which is publicly for Sale? Since when do I have to post my balance sheet or financials in order to ask a valid question?

I have purchased more than one car from different members on this board which did not have an original trim tag.

Some reasons were known up front and easily explained while other reasons were not found out till years later.

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

[ QUOTE ]
.... The car should be evaluated/stand on its own with docs as support.....

Also, Since when is it not OK to ask a valid question regarding a car which is publicly for Sale? Since when do I have to post my balance sheet or financials in order to ask a valid question?....

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm gonna faint, I'm agreeing with Stefano!!https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif And some people think these threads divide us https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think this thread has already got out of hand by a couple of individuals , they know who they are, the way i see it, is the owners of these fabulous rare cars have nothing to prove to anyone on this site. If you have a pocket full of money and want to buy a car of this caliber , go see it and I am sure you will get the whole story and proof on both cars , if I owned these cars i would not respond to all the wannabe car detectives with no money to purchase either of these cars,if you put your money where your mouth is, then, you would expect the owners will disclose all the information you would need to purchase such a high dollar rare car.there seems to be a few people on this site trying to get to the bottom of something for no reason ,just my opinion .

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is it that every time someone points out questionable things on PUBLICLY ADVERTISED cars, there is always someone that questions how much money the people asking the questions has? Here is a news flash for you WANNABBC, there are 4500 registered users on this site...I bet a bunch of them have a "pocket full of money" and coincidentally they are probably the ones asking the questions. Just my opinion.

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
.... The car should be evaluated/stand on its own with docs as support.....

Also, Since when is it not OK to ask a valid question regarding a car which is publicly for Sale? Since when do I have to post my balance sheet or financials in order to ask a valid question?....

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm gonna faint, I'm agreeing with Stefano!!https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif And some people think these threads divide us https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

The end of Days must be near if you and I agree on something https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

I would have thought that you fainted back a few threads when Deuces were not Super Cars.

13.50s on skinnies thru the exhaust will give any new "factory" Mustang a run for the money. Including the Parnelli Jones/Saleen.

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

your news flash is well taken , but if you read my post, all I am saying is ,I think the questions are being directed to the wrong people If I was wanting or had the funds to purchase this car I would contact the owner personally not publically on this forum then research from there , i guess everybody does things a little differrent

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

am i the only one that is still waiting for a response from the owners???

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

[ QUOTE ]
Maxx, If it's possible can you show your tag from from your 1821 mile unrestored 1969 z28/rs.
Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

Attachment shown above is the only shot I have at this time. Why would a 69 car have a front spoiler and not a rear spoiler? Were all 1969 camaro standard front grilles painted silver by the factory?? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

[ QUOTE ]
Attachment shown above is the only shot I have at this time. Why would a 69 car have a front spoiler and not a rear spoiler? Were all 1969 camaro standard front grilles painted silver by the factory?? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


All non RS cars got silver grille except for SS equipped cars which received black. All RS equipped cars received black grilles except for those painted black, which received silver grilles.

Z28's followed the above protocol as well:

Standard Z silver grille
RS/Z Black grille
RS/Z painted black would have a silver grille

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

The much discussed Canadian L89 Camaro here does not appear to have come through Belmont Chev when it was new... It was not ordered by Belmont Chev.

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

How can you say that when the GM docs posted on the first page say otherwise?

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

One simple call to George at GM of Canada would tell us all were it was from.

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

I believe the docs to be legit so I want to know how Charles can make that claim?

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

[ QUOTE ]
How can you say that when the GM docs posted on the first page say otherwise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Everyone looks at the performance cars with great interest today. However it should be remembered that these cars were a very small part of the overall volume at a dealership. These were special cars that were handled by only one or two people when it came to picking specifications and ordering units. Even today there is clear understanding of what was ordered due to the relatively small number of cars involved. The L89 is not in the 'memory bank'.

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

that was my thought. just to be clear Im not discounting the yellow car.
say you knew someone in Canada who in 1969 who bought an L89 car and proceded to wreck/destroy/scrap it, it would be possible to use an old registration to get the vin, order the Canadian paperwork, order a repop vin tag and recreate a documented car. you knew the car was destroyed in 1969 or whenever so there wouldnt be a conflict with another car with the same vin.

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

Who's "Memory Bank" Charles ? Is this gonna be 20 questions ?

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How can you say that when the GM docs posted on the first page say otherwise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Everyone looks at the performance cars with great interest today. However it should be remembered that these cars were a very small part of the overall volume at a dealership. These were special cars that were handled by only one or two people when it came to picking specifications and ordering units. Even today there is clear understanding of what was ordered due to the relatively small number of cars involved. The L89 is not in the 'memory bank'.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the car was not ordered through Belmont, then why is the dealer listed on the GM of Canada paperwork?

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How can you say that when the GM docs posted on the first page say otherwise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Everyone looks at the performance cars with great interest today. However it should be remembered that these cars were a very small part of the overall volume at a dealership. These were special cars that were handled by only one or two people when it came to picking specifications and ordering units. Even today there is clear understanding of what was ordered due to the relatively small number of cars involved. The L89 is not in the 'memory bank'.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the car was not ordered through Belmont, then why is the dealer listed on the GM of Canada paperwork?

[/ QUOTE ]

It is possible that the car was originally ordered through Belmont but sold somewhere else. I don't believe this car is something a dealer would order without having a buyer for it. Central Chev Olds would have done it but not these guys.

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

[ QUOTE ]
...say you knew someone in Canada who in 1969 who bought an L89 car and proceded to wreck/destroy/scrap it, it would be possible to use an old registration to get the vin, order the Canadian paperwork, order a repop vin tag and recreate a documented car. you knew the car was destroyed in 1969 or whenever so there wouldnt be a conflict with another car with the same vin.

[/ QUOTE ]

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smirk.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

[ QUOTE ]

If the car was not ordered through Belmont, then why is the dealer listed on the GM of Canada paperwork?

[/ QUOTE ]

Or are you claiming the GM of Canada paperwork is fake, Charles?

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

[ QUOTE ]
Who's "Memory Bank" Charles ? Is this gonna be 20 questions ?

[/ QUOTE ]

There already seem to have been a lot more than 20 unanswered questions posted here.
The person who ordered the performance cars at Belmont Chev does not recognize this yellow L89 as being one of the cars that the dealer received.

Re: Yellow Canadian L89
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Who's "Memory Bank" Charles ? Is this gonna be 20 questions ?

[/ QUOTE ]

There already seem to have been a lot more than 20 unanswered questions posted here.
The person who ordered the performance cars at Belmont Chev does not recognize this yellow L89 as being one of the cars that the dealer received.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well if you are that person then thanks for the insight but it is still possible that the car was sold to another dealer before it even saw the Belmont lot. Could it be possible that the car was delivered and sold when you just happened to be on vacation? Again, I do not question the GM of Canada docs posted on the first page.