Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not saying you or yenko.net put it there just that it seems it should'nt be there unless every 396 Nova yenko sold is on this list.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why remove it from the list? We don't even know exactly why it is on the Yenko sheets to begin with....You need to dig deeper to find out why or how they were ordered and what was the initial plan for these cars..They are part of the Yenko docs for a reason....Why the knee jerk reaction to discredit the list or cars without knowing the whole story?

Also,please clarify which lists....Yenko.net or the papers from Canonsburg....... I feel both hold true as they are....Until further docs or history is uncovered to prove otherwise..Like the first owner did in the case of the red Nova....Nobody knows it all https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/scholar.gif


Steve

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would still like to see one document proving the car was indeed made a 427

[/ QUOTE ] And show us paperwork that proves it's a 396 if there is any outr there.

This is actually turning out to be very interesting...crap situation but interesting.

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

You would think that most if not all 67,68 Yenko Camaros and 69 Yenko Novas sold outside Canonsburg would be 427 converted cars, Cause why would any Dealer buy the same car that they could from the Factory. So the only thing selling these cars were the idea of getting a 427 Camaro or Nova.
Just my .02 cents.
The "MOF" https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

Good point!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

Ok, I looked up my notes from when I talked to Vince Emme on the phone in 1992.

My notes from the conversation goes that the car was sold in June of 1969 within a couple weeks of delivery to Yenko Chevrolet.

Now, the car was a 04B Build on the trim tag, so I don't know when it would have been delivered to Yenko.

Doesn't look like the car sat for a long time before being moved through SYC.

William Dyer

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, I looked up my notes from when I talked to Vince Emme on the phone in 1992.

My notes from the conversation goes that the car was sold in June of 1969 within a couple weeks of delivery to Yenko Chevrolet.

Now, the car was a 04B Build on the trim tag, so I don't know when it would have been delivered to Yenko.

Doesn't look like the car sat for a long time before being moved through SYC.

William Dyer

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know what you are saying. The car was bought in May and it never went to SYC. It was sold through Yenko Chevrolet. There was no paper work from SYC what so ever.

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

The June date is probably the 'titled date', which usually lags behind the actual sale date. The titled date is what is listed on the VIN search results from the PA DOT.

You are correct, there is no sYc paperwork, I was mistaken in my early posts bec/ I was thinking of another car that does have the sYc letterhead. After researching several more SuperCars sold out of Yenko, they all have Yenko Chev. paperwork.

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

By the summer of '69, these cars weren't moving off the lots very fast. I had plenty of time to choose between the Nurse Camaro and the Beare Chevelle. Typically insurance was around $400 for a Chevelle like ours. I think it was more a matter of most people not being able to afford the cars in the first place. You weren't buying $4K cars unless you were fortunate enough to have a GM job or something comparable. By late summer, I imagine Yenko would move these cars any way possible. They probably didn't care what engine the cars left with just as long as they were gone. By August, the dealers would know that bigger and better was coming out in the fall. GM was talking 454 Corvettes, Camaros, and Chevelles. Who would want a 425 hp '69 Chevelle or Camaro when they could have a 450 hp 454 shortly. I know that it irritated me a little when I found out what was coming down the pipe line. Not now. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/laugh.gif

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

My Dad and Uncle both remember this car, my Uncle even road in it back then. He thought David Dorsey owned it, my Dad and Uncle both said it was definitly was a 396/375 not a 427 Yenko (they said it ran GOOD). There were some hot cars in the Southhills of Pittsburgh back then. My Dad's first new car was a 65 Impala with a 396/425 motor (pretty rare) and it was not an SS, his friend Harry had a 65 Z16 Chevelle he bought new.

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

Harry Cook?

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

Yep Harry Cook, My Dad (Stephen Kotula) put a cam and 427 Tri-power set up on the car after Harry blow-up the original motor and had a warranty one installed. The car didn't have posi from the factory, he had the dealer installed one about a year later (the soonest the dealer could get it). My Uncle is Chuck Chovanec, I work for him. Was the Nova David's or Tad's? Sincerely Brian Kotula

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

seriously, the best place to research this car is in the town it ran in. From what I've heard about the 37 Novas on the list, only one has a 427 notation next to it, so you can't just say since it doesn't say 427 that it's a 396. Then you'd be claiming that the other 36 weren't converted.

did kevins car come from GM with the 427 in it or was it converted by Yenko?

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

seriously, the best place to research this car is in the town it ran in.[ QUOTE ]
From what I've heard about the 37 Novas on the list, only one has a 427 notation next to it, so you can't just say since it doesn't say 427 that it's a 396. Then you'd be claiming that the other 36 weren't converted.

[/ QUOTE ]

did kevins car come from GM with the 427 in it or was it converted by Yenko?

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

Prior statement in an above message: "The only reason I can think of is that they did convert it to a 427 or 454 (depending on the delivery date), and then sell it less stripes and badges so their employee can get it insured and race it in the 396 class without anyone at the track knowing it was touched. Make the paperwork out saying it's a 396 for his insurance company and financing."

As to the above, is there any proof/surviving cars of this theory? I think this idea is far fetched as far as this 69 Nova is concerned. You have the original owner and now his friends saying it was a 396. Why can't that just be accepted?

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

[ QUOTE ]
Prior statement in an above message: "The only reason I can think of is that they did convert it to a 427 or 454 (depending on the delivery date), and then sell it less stripes and badges so their employee can get it insured and race it in the 396 class without anyone at the track knowing it was touched. Make the paperwork out saying it's a 396 for his insurance company and financing."

As to the above, is there any proof/surviving cars of this theory? I think this idea is far fetched as far as this 69 Nova is concerned. You have the original owner and now his friends saying it was a 396. Why can't that just be accepted?

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe it is accepted that the car was indeed a 396. This is quite a shock, and it will take a bit of time for everyone to get on the same page. These cars made it onto this 'list' for some reason, we just don't know how/why!

Do any of you guys out there in P-burgh know a Tom Farr or Joseph Bongirono?

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

I don't think this is the 1st case of this happening with a car. (being sold without being modified) How many Yenko Stingers went out that way? From what info we can find there were a 100 more or less corvairs sitting on Don's lot and he would sell them how ever you wanted them. So what would make anyone think that the nova's would be any different? The main difference is you got a tag with the Stinger.

Would it have made things better or worse if Don had kept putting tags on all his SPECIAL cars?

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

Sorry for a lengthy posting but here's a couple thoughts...

Reading this thread reminded me of my days in the car business and how our dealership had another separate 'holding company' we would often 'sell' the vehicle to even though it didn't move from it's spot on the lot. . This was done so the dealership could take advantage of manufacturer incentives offered for reaching total number of certain models or grand totals of all units 'sold' in specific time periods...also sometimes for specific tax and accounting reasons too. .

In our case anyway, when the car was actually sold to the end user/customer, the paperwork was the same dealership stuff but one key thing differed...the 'in service date'. . This is the date the manufacturer considers the vehicle sold and the warranty begins ticking away...even though the vehicle still sits on the lot as a new car. . This date thing was seldom mentioned to the customer, hopefully never noticed by anyone and was occasionally a problem if the customer had a legit warranty concern and the manufacturer's warranty had actually just run out. . These cars and other vehicles 'with issues' were on our own lists to recognise the situations and 'warranty' was often covered internally as we didn't want customers to know what was going on. .

As much as I understand, this practice is totally legal and a common situation among car dealers also I don't think things are any different today? .
When buying cars I am still careful to check and clarify with dealerships what the 'In Service/Warranty Date' is! .

This whole blurb is not to say Yenko could have been doing anything crooked but to consider how and why Yenko Chevy could've 'sold' the units to Yenko SC before they were actually needed for conversions...it could be a similar situation where Yenko Chevy could meet sales goals, gain manufacturer incentives or take advantage of tax situations also a place to land vehicles w/ issues? .
If one of these vehicles happened to be sold to a customer before a conversion was ever done but after being passed on to YSC, it would have been on the YSC list, unmodified but with different warranty coverage? .
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif
~ Pete

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

Good point. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif Interesting to say the least.

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

There is no question that some of the 37 Novas were converted to 427 cars. There are some well documented examples. Vince Emme said years ago that 30 of the 37 were converted to 427s. Unfortunately we don't have his paperwork, but certainly some of the Yenko sold cars were not converted. It maked sense that the distributed cars were converted, no reason to get a 396 Nova shipped in from Yenko.
Many Yenko Camaro orders were being cancelled mid-year. One can only imagine how hard it was to sell 427 Novas given the insurance issues performance car buyers were facing.
Mark

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

This is a very interesting topic to say the least and could become very bad for some people involved,and I feel bad for the owners that bought this car in the last 2-4 years thinking it was a 427 Nova. Transferring these cars over to YSC would have helped Yenko Chevrolet sales #'s, and it being a late car with the 454 cars coming it could have just been sold through YSC and not tranferred back to Yenko Chevrolet, or they could have done some slights mods to it, headers,tach,stripes, wheels and sold it as a Yenko Nova and it be on the list of 37 YSC Novas, either way its a Yenko Nova, just not a 427 Yenko Nova, as the original owner states and that should be the definitive word barring original docs to document a car, I don't see why the original owner would need/want to lie because he has no financial gain or loss in this car. There are people on here screaming that since this car was on the list of 37 that it "had" to be a 427 car and rightly so if they are one of the people that knew 4 years ago that this car was a 396 instead of 427, trying to cover their a** because of the probable lawsuit coming from a few owners of this car for some serious misrepresentation. This is still a neat/unique car being a L78 Nova from Yenko Chevrolet and it being on the list of 37 as a YSC Nova. Didn't Brian H have a Yellow 69 YSC Nova with stripes,a L78 with a tri-power set up and it was on the list, correct me if I am wrong. The current owner and past owners of the car since it was discovered it to be a 396 will have a legal avenue back to the people that intentionally misrepresented this car. I can see why Ed C. does not certify these cars anymore. This is a sad situation to see but I can see how it can happen with the money that these cars command, greed has taken the place of preserving these rare monsters for others to see and just the pure love of the hobby, this is another situation where a few leave a bad taste in everyones mouth. I have been lucky enough to have been around some of these rare cars in a more personal setting where I could go right up to them, touch them, sit in them when Randy Miller owned a ZL1, 2 69 YSC 427 Novas,4 69 YSC Camaros, 1 69 YSC Chevelle, because it was a definite priviledge to have been able to go 2 miles from my home and see all this in one place, and I thank Randy for allowing me to have access to his cars and was the perfect gentlemen and glad to show them to me probably when he didn't have the time to do it, but took the time because he knew that I would not be able to see those type cars again anywhere else all in one place, and to Randy thank you! When I went to his garage to see all these great cars and I knew what all the cars were, how many were made,etc, but the 2 69 YSC 427 Novas carried a certain mystique above the rest and on the same level as the ZL1 Camaro, as both being brutally/deadly powerful and fast. Thanks to those in the hobby that keep it pure for the love and preservation of these awesome cars for the future for others to see and experience, didn't mean to rant, but this is how I see it, just an opinion.

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

Well said JTH. Sh _ _ does not flow downhill, it goes backwards. The "list" thus cannot be trusted anymore. The muscle car market was exploited. Sorry to see it happen.......

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

Good rant ! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

[ QUOTE ]
The "list" thus cannot be trusted anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is not a fair statement. The list is a great starting point and additional documentation should be pursued to ensure the pedigree of the car (and no Ed C's certification is not good enough! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...thumbsdown.gif) I am reasonably certain your opinion of the list would change if you located a car on the list!

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

MIKE A,
I COULDN'T AGREE MORE. THE WAY I SEE IT IS THE 37 YENKO NOVAS ARE 396 OR 427 CARS SO THERE IS A 50/50 CHANCE. THE ONLY TRUE WAY TO DOCUMENT IS PAPERTRAIL, OWNER HISTORY OR IN THIS CARS CASE THE ORIGINAL FAMILY SPOKE UP AND CONFIRMED THIS. JUST MY .02 CENTS... KP

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

------I have a question that pertains to the SYC 427 Novas. Why does everyone say that they are brutally fast??? Fast yes, but no faster than a similar Camaro, right???. A Yenko Camaro or a COPO Camaro had the same drivetrain, similar weight, and suspension, and yet these Novas are always touted as being "brutally" fast. The funny part is that even Don seemed to think the same thing if I recall. Im not knocking the cars at all as I think they are the coolest of all Dons masterpieces. I guess Im just confused as usual........Bill S

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

Bill I was referring to how Don Yenko described the 427 Novas when he built them, but when you compare L72 Nova specs to L72 Camaro specs, HP and weight, they should be a even match on paper. The ZL1 Camaro is the most brutal/lethal stock production muscle car ever made besides a Shelby 427 Cobra, here is an interesting fact about the 427 Cobra, it is labeled as the deadliest street car ever as 86% of street accidents were fatal!

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

With a few extra options, a big block Nova or Camaro could actually weigh more than a similar Chevelle with base equipment. The L78s were and still are touted as killer as well. I've had two and even with headers and tuning would be hard pressed to get into the 12s. They can perform but do need help. From my experience the L72 probably did feel brutal compared to the L78. Years ago magazine writers took manufacturers' hype and ran with it. Still fun cars to drive though. The older they get the faster they were. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

From what Warren told me when I was at his place, He seemed to think they only converted at most 3 Nova's. He knows for sure there were 2 and possibly a 3rd one.

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

I would swear that I remember seeing a red 69 Nova SYC 427 at Stauffer Chevrolet in Scranton in 1969. Word was out they had 1, and everyone would ride there to peek in the window and whatever. I think it had black stripes and black vinyl top. ??? NOT on the list, although the list is incomplete.

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

What is the status of this 69 Nova now. Is there litigation?

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

Bill: a Nova is just a *tad* lighter than a comparable Camaro, but it's more about *where* the weight is on a Nova...the longer rear overhang of the Nova helps get it all moving.

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

[ QUOTE ]
The ZL1 Camaro is the most brutal/lethal stock production muscle car ever made besides a Shelby 427 Cobra, here is an interesting fact about the 427 Cobra, it is labeled as the deadliest street car ever as 86% of street accidents were fatal!

[/ QUOTE ]

wow, probally the most debatable statement revolving around musclecars! i'll put that label on a 68 S/S Dart. but thats all for another thread!

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would swear that I remember seeing a red 69 Nova SYC 427 at Stauffer Chevrolet in Scranton in 1969. Word was out they had 1, and everyone would ride there to peek in the window and whatever. I think it had black stripes and black vinyl top. ??? NOT on the list, although the list is incomplete.

[/ QUOTE ]

What makes you think the car you saw at Stauffer is not on the list?

FWIW, it is on the list, it is a 427 conversion, and as of right now is the only car that has sYc paperwork describing it as a 427 - with mag wheels! This car is listed in two sYc bulletins dated mid '70 that was distributed to other dealers to let them know what was still available. The car was eventually sold, and raced, and found in Moscow, PA. It now resides in a collection in the NW - and it was NOT a copo like greg joseph states in all the mag articles.

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

WHICH ONE IS IT ON THE LIST? LAST 6 OF THE VIN? WAS IT RED WITH BLACK VINYL TOP?

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

Yep, Garnet red, but I don't think it had a v/t. The VIN# 393985 - which, depending if you go by the vin or body #, could be the first one of the 37. But, we won't go there https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

I'll try to post a pic.

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h6...vaSuydam-1.jpg

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

In response to Keith's last post: When new the 68 Chevelle L78s which I was most familiar with having tuned several that raced at the strip ran well into the 12s when equipped with good headers, at least a 4.10 rear and slicks. The best ones ran 12.60s and most ran 12.70s and 80s. This was at our local strip which had an altitude of 1200 ft. My own 68 had a 350 hp 396 and was stock except for an L78 cam, headers and slicks ran a best of 12.78 @ 109. Rob, I always thought the Novas did NOT hook as good as the Camaros beacause of 3 inches extra wheelbase all of it in the passenger compartment. This seemed to put more weight on the front end and also made a longer moment arm with the extra length to transfer weight to the rear tires. I don't have Excel or I would go to the NHRA site and look up the shipping weight for a 69 L78 Nova and similar Camaro. Do you have Excel? All of their classification guides are in that format. If you know this info please post it. I do know that most of the current A/S NHRA Chevies are Camaros, although the Nova can fit into the class most Novas run B/S.
Although not related to this discussion, all of the good running A/S Cars are 396s but the A/SA cars run 427s. Let me know what you think. Frank Payne

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

Frank: Camaro is 8.67*375=3251, Nova is 8.74*375=3277...

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

[ QUOTE ]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h6...vaSuydam-1.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

Love that picture, Marlin https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif That is what I would consider a 'period correct' race Nova https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

Pretty cool eh? Thanks to Kevin Suydam for that one, you don't see very many pictures of '69 Yenko Novas from back in the day, this is one of the best - love the hood scoop!

Do you think there is a yellow yenko camaro just behind the decklid of the Nova??

Re: 1969 Yenko Nova
 

Frank Payne, In my opinion you are right on. Love the novas but why build a BB nova for NHRA when the camaro is a better choice. ALL (I know a bold statement) BB camaros running in A/S are 375 horse cars. A tad lighter, aluminum heads without a penalty and rev much better than their big brother 427 cars. I don't recall seeing anybody at least in DIV-1 running a 427 in A/S. But....guys experiment all the time in Stock Eliminator. Ed Bednaz runs A or B Stick with his nova in DIV-1. Always a contender but I never saw that car in the nines with the weight out of it. He uses the 396 motor. Very fast, very competitive and a good driver! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif