Starter gave up the ghost last night
 

I posted this on Camaros.net also, but the traffic has been light there lately. Any comments are appreciated.

So I was out for a rip last night and stopped to get gas. When I went to start my 69, it acted like the battery was dead or I had too much advance. After trying to jump start it and swapping batteries with my son, I figured it was starter heat soak. So, I had my son tow me across a parking lot with his Mustang so I could pop the clutch. It fired right up so I could take it home. Funny looking scene I'm sure. Thankfully it was dark... :wink2:
So now I'm faced with what to do for a starter. I have two mini starters. The first one is the stock one from my 454. The second one is an a/m mini starter that I got from a friend, but it's an unknown. As long as it works well, is there any reason I would want to use the a/m one over the factory? Do the teeth look right for a stock style flywheel on the one that says 9706?
Also, with these mini starters, do you think I'll need a heat shield going forward?
Thanks.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/905/4...803bcbd9_z.jpg

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/979/4...3d52a194_z.jpg

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/955/4...136e0bc8_z.jpg

The GM starter from your 454 is far superior to the modified Nissan 300zx starter. You can buy this starter for cheap and they seem to work well. https://www.ebay.com/itm/LUCAS-Start...NZeFyb&vxp=mtr

Use GM starter bolts 12338064

I've got a Tilton on my 427 and I've never had a problem with it. No heat shield.

I had good luck with this:

http://www.robbmcperformance.com/pro...y_starter.html

You can put the solenoid in any position. Switched to here after problems with one of the name brand mini starters

I'd love to run a Tilton. That's what I have on my LS6 in the 79 Z28. I just don't see the need for buying something else right now when I have two good starters. I'm just trying to decide which of the two to run. You can change the position of the solenoid on the a/m mini starter I have in the pic also.
So McCune, why do you say modified 300zx starter? Do you mean because it's Japanese or it's so similar to one? You really think the GM factory starter with 200k miles on it would be better that the other one?

The modified mini A/M starter started life as a 300 ZX starter and they took a solid block of aluminum and machined to fit the Nissan starter , changed the pinion and bolted it to Chevy block. The GM starter is better than the Nissan Hitachi starter in my opinion. The gm starter also fits a 1000X better. I am not sure of the condition of your GM starter but you and get a replacement for 36 bucks.

Awesome. Thanks for the info. For $36, I might just buy a new one. I thought they were a lot more for some reason.

I put the link for the 36.00 starter in my first response and the number for the starter bolts you will need.

I'll check it out. No access to ebay right now. Thanks again.

I know on my 69 big block Nova with 2 1/8 Hooker super comp headers .. I had heat soak issues with the starter & installed a ford starter relay & it definitely helped , also didn’t have any other wires to mess with just a jumper to the solenoid & cable ...

You can't wire a GM new style permanent magnet gear reduction(PMGR) starter like that but it definitely worked on the non permanent magnet starters.

I'm sure mine was heat soak, but I'm pretty surprised. I have plenty of clearance between the headers and the starter and the headers are ceramic coated. Here's a pic.
I went to install the OE GM starter this morning and I realized it only had two posts. They don't have the "R" post anymore for the points distributor. The mini starters are the same. Now I'll have to do a little re-wire because I have the "R" wire triggering a relay to power my Pertronix III unit. I thought about going the Ford relay route, but I'd rather not add anything more if I don't have to. I have one sitting on my bench, but when it comes to my 69, less is more.
I did end up ordering one of those $36. GM starters McCune suggested. How can you beat that? It even includes shipping. It's a reman, but I'm alright with that even though the one I just pulled out was an AC Delco reman. In the last few years, anything I've touched that had AC Delco on it turns to crap. I'm done with them. It's just a name now. No quality from what I can see.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/961/4...53195a5f_z.jpg

They make a solenoid with a R terminal for the the gm 6449 starter, they are used on marine applications. Here is the solenoid. https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Starter...YAAOSwiylW~q2q

Excellent. Maybe I'll go that route. Please check out the other thread that I just posted. It might make it not necessary. Thanks.

My solenoid showed up last night, but of course a 10 min starter swap turned into a couple of hours along with a few cuss words. I swapped the new solenoid on the new starter and installed it. I thought it was odd that I heard my Pertronix relay click when I hooked up the battery. I sat in the driver's seat and saw my brake light on. Hmm... Let's try to turn it over. Not even a click. Dang... I know, I switched the R & S wires right? Switched them once. Nope. Poked around cursing a little. Turned out that the battery cable was turned and touching the R wire somehow. Fixed that. Ok, let's start her up. Nothing. Dangit! Walked away for a few. Came back, pulled the starter to test it. Worked for a minute then nothing. WTH? Wait a minute, that's not just paint. That's an aluminum starter! Friggin' ground. Made up a nice ground, installed everything and whalla. We've got fire. Long story long, some new starters need a separate ground...
So now I'm sitting here in my office, looking out the window at my 69. What a beautiful morning for drive in.
Thanks McCune for all the help. The new solenoid was the way to go.


Something else to add... Installing the GM mini starter is so much nicer than the old iron. They probably weigh 1/2 as much and are half the size. The engine spins over nicer than I could ask for too.

That starter grounds to the engine block, the aluminium housing has zero to do with it. I hope you bought the bolts I suggested. Glad it up and running.

I'm not sure why it wasn't grounding then. I know aluminum is conductive, but I figured that's why it wasn't grounding. I dunno, but she's working now and has a better ground... I did remove the paint from the starter mount after I painted the block too, so it's not that.
I already had the bolts from when I removed the original starter when I pulled the engine out of the van it was in. They have the knurling.

So was there anything wrong with the original starter that went out on the test drive or was it the same issue? I’m glad to hear you got it worked out.

Jason

That's a good question, but I don't think it was the same issue. That was a stock style starter and I was even using the starter brace that bolts to the block. That alone would have been a good ground. I'll have to bench test that starter and see what's up. It will probably work on the bench, but I don't have a way to load test it. It was a replacement/rebuilt starter anyway, so I'm not too worried about it. I have an original on my born with motor sitting in the corner.

One more thing to add on the install. I had to clearance the bellhousing dust shield on the bottom slightly. The mini starter nose is a little bigger/shaped differently than the older stock starter. Not a big deal, but it was something else...