Re: 69 Zl1 Corvette
 

It seems the 600hp lightweight Corvette combination is a handful for someone who lacks the driving ability of such a car.We agree!
So Chevy had this approach to make the car undsirable for the street.First no radio will come in the car and secondly( and most important)the car'scooling system won't handle the city traffic.The suspension spring rates are also increased and this makes for a harsh ride.
What chevy really did was design the car for the amateur road racer. It has flared fenderwells for wide racing tires. Do the 2 existing cars have flared fenderwells? Above Imformation was taken right out of article.

Re: 69 Zl1 Corvette
 

There were a couple of feature articles on the white Tech Center ZL-1 Corvette back in 1969. It was not a production car. The fender flares were shipped with L-88s, not installed. They interfered with the body drop in production.

There were supposedly 2 ZL-1s built; only the yellow car is documented. The white coupe is purportedly an L-88 that was "dealer converted" to ZL-1 specs. I've heard so many stories about the other one I've lost count.

Re: 69 Zl1 Corvette
 

I heard 3 were built.One was destroyed by Chevrolet.
Only those two survived.
I have a Chevrolet Zone letter to dealers dated October 24th,1969 saying:

"St.Louis Plant has a 1969 Corvette,(3,000 miles) with ZL-1 High Performance engine for sale at company car discount.Call Zone if you are interested."

I believe this to be the Yellow ZL-1 Corvette.A great time capsule piece.

[Edited by mr70 (08-04-2001 at 08:38 PM).]

Re: 69 Zl1 Corvette
 

There is an "East Coast"collector that owned one of the two cars. I will ask him for some specifics.

69 Zl1 Corvette
 

I have a original Popular Hot Rodding date July 1969.Pages 20 thru 23 has article and pictures on 69 ZL1 Corvette,shows picture of white 69 ZLI with factory fender flares,do you know how many exist and who has them?

Re: 69 Zl1 Corvette
 

I believe there were 2 built and sold to the public. The YELLOW ZL-1 CORVETTE is owned by Roger Judski, and the WHITE ZL-1 CORVETTE is owned by Kevin Suydam (known as "Supercars" on this board).

Re: 69 Zl1 Corvette
 

William, I own a white ZL1 Vette. I don't know the ZL1 you are referencing as a L88 to ZL1 dealer conversion. I disagree with the statement that the Yellow one is the only one documented. I know you are only repeating things you've heard though.

Anyway the history on my White ZL1 vette as an original GM ZL1 Vette has been known since its delivery to the original owner in 1969. In other words it didn't materialize out of thin air. It was drag raced by the original owner for the first year and a half after he took delivery. I have the contract between the original owner and the owner of the Professional Racing team, as well as their affadavits stating it to be a GM factory installed ZL1. The original owner of this ZL1 Vette traded it away, after only owning it the year and a half; but not knowing it was one of only 2 built. He said it was headed circle track racing complete with the next owner having installed Roll Cage, Fuel Cell, and Flares. The notarized affadavits from the original owner and the owner of the Race Team attest that my ZL1 was a GM factory original ZL1 Vette evidenced by the window sticker in 1969, (not dealer installed). The original owner is Jack Cheskaty, who is still alive and currently is the US Treasury IRS Director of the Rocky Mountain region of 5 states. He provided his notarized affadavit of my ZL1 Vette on his official US Treasury letterhead. He did this at a time when he did not own this ZL1 Vette and had no monetary gain in doing so. No one in this high of a Government Position would make a notarized statement on his official letterhead unless it were absolutely true. Any person who is in doubt of this man's statement, is perhaps in need of an Income Tax audit.

There is a Magazine article (I'm not at home right now to be able to post what issue, as it is in the ZL1 file) in which Zora Duntov and Jim Perkins visited this ZL1 Vette at Otis Chandler's Museum, several years before I purchased it from Otis. The article has a photo of Zora sitting in this Vette etc, and discussion by Zora and Jim Perkins about this ZL1 as they knew this was one of the ZL1 Vettes. Kevin.

Re: 69 Zl1 Corvette
 

The "white ZL-1" I'm thinking of was at Bloomington circa 1982, the only time I attended. The owner was present and extremely evasive when asked if was an original. Some years later I saw a feature article on it (or another) someplace. This one was an L-88 originally. When the owner learned of the ZL-1 he bought an engine and swapped.

No intention to diminish your car; you evidently have the other one. We did a ZL-1 Camaro many years ago and talked to a lot of people in the process of finding an engine. I heard all the stories out there about the other ZL-1 Corvette.

Re: 69 Zl1 Corvette
 

I have also been collecting info on the ZL1 Corvettes. Besides the production yellow and white car I have found articles and pictures of Zora's white test mule that appears to be a 1968 body. A Monaco Orange ZL1 used by Chevy as a drag racing test car showed up in an article in Motor Trend Oct 69 called THE 10 SEC TRIP. An article in Sports Car Graphic Oct. 69 called GENERAL MOTORS MISSING MODEL YEAR shows two ZL1 Corvettes at a 1970 press preview. The photos are black and white but one car looks white with a wide stripe down the center and the other is a dark color. They may be the same 2 white and orange ZL1 test cars but were "fixed up" for the press preview because the 70 Corvettes were not there. Martyn Schorr (Cars magazine editor) has stated that he remembers a black ZL1 Corvette test car. There was also an interesting quote that was in some of the magazines supposedly from Zora when asked about the ZL1 Corvettes he said in using his dialect "Were six cars made. Two escaped. Four changed inside and sold to employees."
There was a guy selling a 68 L71 white Corvette with what he said was a prototype ZL1 stripe done by GM
here are some links
http://www.corvetteforum.net/c3/supe...Oct69/zl1a.jpg

http://www.sharkwerkes.com/sharktank...o/68proto.html


[Edited by JoeC (08-05-2001 at 12:07 PM).]

Re: 69 Zl1 Corvette
 

I've heard of 2 other ZL1's. One I saw at SC-Atlanta several years ago. Block was VIN stamped.
The other was owned by a guy in FL that had the original block in the garage.
Not sure if either of them have paperwork.

Re: 69 Zl1 Corvette
 

Kevin what William may have been referring to was an article in Vette Nov 1985 by Marty Schorr. "what is somewhat confusing is the option list which also includes an L-88 engine at $1,032.15. Could it be that this car was originally delivered with an L-88 engine and then converted to Zl-1 status by the dealer. Jack Cheskaty bought the car with 100 miles on its clock..."
Mag also shows a dealer invoice from Paulos Auto Co.with the L-88 on line 7 and ZL-1 on line 11. Cheskatsy bought the car from Gordon Wilson Chevrolet in Salt Lake city.
Great car. Terry (a man with not enough time and too many magazines)

Re: 69 Zl1 Corvette
 

Terry, I have all those magazines too. My ZL1 was not a dealer conversion. It absolutely was a ZL1 from Chevrolet. Jack Cheskaty states emphatically, unequivocally that the Chevrolet window sticker stated ZL1. Jack states, quote: "The ZL1 option on the original Chevrolet window sticker essentially doubled the price of the car and there was no mistaking that!!!" He bought it from the smaller dealer Gordon Wilson in Utah which acquired it from Paulos Chevrolet. The NICB report I have confirms it was shipped to Paulos from the factory. Then it sat for many months before Cheskaty bought it. The outrageous price of around ten grand was the reason it didn't sell for months. The 100 miles on the odometer were a few test miles by tire kickers, and driving from Paulos to Gordon Wilson's.

If you go to the web site for the yellow ZL1, you will see that it has both the RPO's L88 and RPO ZL1 listed. Kevin

Re: 69 Zl1 Corvette
 

Kevin that makes sense. Do you know whether your car was originally ordered by someone who backed out or was it set up to build dealer traffic. I remember the Blue ZL-1
RS Camaro at Otis Chandler was loaded and used by the dealer to build traffic until someone walked in and bought it (storey from Jerry the curator)
Once more, great car and thanks for the extra detail. Terry

Re: 69 Zl1 Corvette
 

Just curious...have the 2 ZL-1 Corvettes EVER been side to side since they were sold? What an awesome site! Seems to me that Collinsville would be just about half way... https://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/wink.gif

Re: 69 Zl1 Corvette
 

Rob, They were together at Bloomington about 12 years ago. I would really like to go to Collinsville this year, but have family Labor Day vacation plans with other family and friends. I have a pretty understanding wife with my car hobby; but I'd better not jeopardize that by taking off during this family vacation. Some day I've got to make it there though, Kevin

Re: 69 Zl1 Corvette
 

Kevin:

Believe me, I TOTALLY understand the family thing! It seems like it takes an act of Congress just for me to get to the shop! But, family comes first, everything else second.

I have yet to see either of these ZL-1 Corvettes...does Roger ever travel with his? I am assuming he is a regular Bloomington attendee?

Re: 69 Zl1 Corvette
 

Kevin - more stripe questions. Do you know if Chevy has a RPO number or a part number for a stencil kit for the ZL1 stripe? I don't see a stripe RPO on Rogers ZL1 info. Do you know if this is a true story on the white 1968 L71 Corvette with the prototype ZL1 stripe done at the factory? Did your ZL1 originally have the same stripe as the yellow ZL1? I believe you said that the dealer added the Motion style stripe but was it Paulos or Wilson's? Maybe you should add something about the Motion stripe to your web site description. I see on other Corvette discussion boards that some people think the car is a "Motion ZL1" or that it has a factory stripe that was also used on Motion Corvettes. I think people see the Motion Corvettes, the yellow ZL1, and the white ZL1 and get confused by the stripes.

Re: 69 Zl1 Corvette
 

Joe, there is no RPO for a ZL1 stripe. My car was built Nov/68 and the yellow ZL1 was a late production car which had no RPO for a stripe either. Cheskaty said the stripe was on my ZL1 when he bought it new from the dealer, so it was either factory or dealer applied. If it was dealer applied it would be apparent that Paulos copied B/M; or if factory applied, then B/M copied Chevrolet. Chevrolet did have a similar stripe on the prototype ZL1 as you point out. My ZL1 did not come from Baldwin Motion though. Kevin

Re: 69 Zl1 Corvette
 

Kevin,
The prototype stripe car I am talking about is a white 1968 L71 with a ZL1 stripe done at GM tech center or at least that is what they claim on the web page. The story behind this car is that it was the prototype car for the ZL-1 stripe, used by GM Design in 68 before the real ZL-1 was released. The car was originally ordered by a GM employee but never titled, driven, or registered and was then sold directly from the GM Tech Center. The guy has the GM "Request for Vehicle Purchase" from the Tech Center as well as a copy of the original options sheet which has an option for "Kit ZL-1 Stripes". He also has an old picture of the car. here is the link

http://www.sharkwerkes.com/sharktank...o/68proto.html

Re: 69 Zl1 Corvette
 

The stripe that appears on Roger Judski's car is indeed listed in the Assembly Instruction Manual for the 1969 Corvette... The very last page (in the RPO section) if I'm not mistaken.

All of the dimensions for the stripe are detailed on this page. I don't have the AIM in front of me, but I'm a bit curious as to when the page was added. I know that the car Kevin owns is a November 1968 build while Roger's car is a September 1969 build... Quite a spread between the two. It will be interesting to see when that "stripe" page was added.

Regards,

Stan Falenski

Re: 69 Zl1 Corvette
 

Stan I have a copy of that GM factory drawing you are speaking of for the ZL1 Stripes like Roger's. It is dated about ten days after the build date of my car. Kevin.

Re: 69 Zl1 Corvette
 

My memory may be fading with age, but it seems I read years ago that the yellow ZL-1 at one time was seized from a drug dealer in the southeastern US then sold at auction in Florida, it seems to me that the same article had referenced that the other ZL-1 was owned by one of the Unser brothers, as I wondered why he would not have bought the second when it was up for auction? Any of this fit with the history of these two cars?
Motown https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: 69 Zl1 Corvette
 

You must have seen me reading these old threads! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif The archived info on this site is priceless! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/worship.gif

Re: 69 Zl1 Corvette
 

Frank,
You just mentioned in a PM to me that you were glad to see me back so some good controversial discussions could be fired up to get everyones blood flowing again, be careful what you ask for.........
Motown https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: 69 Zl1 Corvette
 

You know it is funny but, I can remember so vividly seeing a Blue '69 cpe. with a window sticker showing the ZL-1 motor setting at a bodyshop here in Tulsa OK. back in the spring of '69. It had a blue interior too. I tried to find out who owned it but nobody knew for sure. Wish I had took pic of it so everybody would believe me. It didn't have any stripes on it but perhaps they were installed by the dealer when it got to the final destination.

I am sure about the color as I had a same color '68 400 hp turbo 400 cpe that I had picked up from the local salvage pool and it was still in the bodyshop at that time but almost finished. Because of the color of the coupe being the same as mine, it caught my eye and I stopped and looked it over.

It was still cold in the mornings and this was a Sat and the place where it was setting in their parking lot, was not open.

I drove back by two or three times and it was still there and then after 1 pm it was gone? Never saw it again or persued it any farther. Wish I had.

Re: 69 Zl1 Corvette
 

I have read the post's about the L-88 and the ZL-1 option codes. Remember L-88 was a package not just a motor. The L-88 package was required before the ZL-1 engine could be installed. Just as an L-71 was required before an L-89 could be added. Each package had prerequisits for the next stage of performance. ZL-1 did not include the brake and suspension package that an L-88 did. So the L-88 code was the base platform to install the ZL-1 motor. Don't look at an option code as simply a motor. Study all the requirement's to satisfy the option code.

Hope this helps.

Mike

Re: 69 Zl1 Corvette
 

Hey kevin it sounds like that car causes you alot of trouble, so being the kind sort that i am i would be glad to take it off your hands and end all this heartache.............no need to thank me, just tring to help https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/burnout.gif

68 Z11 camaro aspect
 

One of the Three Best Rare Muscle Car Books - Amazon.comwww.amazon.com › review
... to be part of the Otis Chandler collection but you can see it on the internet if you search on Kevin Suydam's collection). It also didn't include the L-88 Corvettes.

Resto Profile - 1968 Yenko Camaro | Hemmingswww.hemmings.com › Stories
Kevin Suydam's 1968 Yenko Super Camaro is not only one of 64 specially modified by Yenko Chevrolet that year, it's one of a kind. YS-8023 is the only '68 ...

In the 80's we were visiting family in the Grapevine, TX area and being a young gearhead I was always having to look through the local trader mags. I remember a ZL-1 Vette being listed in the Auto Trader magazine in that greater Dallas area. I bet too if you were to ask John Maher he could tell you if he saw a blue one with his orange one. He says there were 7 along with his.

ZL1 Production Records
 

I posted this on CorvetteForum, but since this thread sent me an update alert today, I figured I'd cross post this here as well.
---

The following internal GM reports summarize production totals through September 1969. The Daytona Yellow ZL1 was ordered September 7, 1969 and completed assembly per the trim tag on September 11, 1969 (N11). I don't have a reference as to what GM's official production date was for the Daytona Yellow ZL1 (presumably either September 11 or September 12, 1969).

Here is a copy of the two documents and my analysis of these two documents:

So what are your thoughts on the Maher MO roadster automatic and his 1st hand account of seeing 7 alongside his car at Gulf Research?

I would like to know which carb was on the MAHER ZL1 Corvette seeing as the Camaro assembly plant did not have the correct carbs at the end of December.

Is there any information as to when the FIRST ZL1 engine assembly was built at Tonawanda?

Given that even under the direction of ESTES and his HOT ORDER for the Camaros it took a couple of weeks, am I off base in believing that Scheduling for the Corvette ZL1 build would take a couple weeks at best?
Meaning that the earliest would be approx the same time frame as the Camaros were built... end of December given the Dec 9th ECL change?

So.... Lets throw a wrench in the works. Do you think Duntov didn't have enough "pull" to get an engine (s) built "out the back door" installed in a car for top racers?? We are talking at a time in history when counting was done by a human not a computer, also not as traceable.....
Didn't one manufacturer run one car out the front door and the same car back down the assembly line to meet homolgation numbers for NASCAR?

PS... I'm a firm BELIEVER there was only two (2) ZL1's built. But the L88 # are a little vague...

Many special Hi Po cars were built to meet the racing requirements

NHRA required 50 cars for Super Stock class

SCCA required 100 cars for some classes and some like Trans Am was 1000

NASCAR required 200 cars for some and 6000 for others and had other rules

FIA and SCCA had some rules for parts that had to be pre-approved before racing

When FIA and SCCA approved the ZL1 engine for competition in the Corvette, it did not require a minimum number of cars built

here are pics to go with this thread

I think the yellow and white ZL1 Corvettes are acceped by most as production cars but seems to be some questions on the orange car

article on the orange car

http://www.superchevy.com/features/c...y-corvette-zl1

Need to add this about '69 ZL-1 Vettes.

https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=147328

A lot of info there.

Larry Cain post:

"I can remember so vividly seeing a Blue '69 cpe. with a window sticker showing the ZL-1 motor setting at a bodyshop here in Tulsa OK. back in the spring of '69. It had a blue interior too. I tried to find out who owned it but nobody knew for sure. Wish I had took pic of it so everybody would believe me. It didn't have any stripes on it but perhaps they were installed by the dealer when it got to the final destination."

I've seen John Maher's '69 ZL-1 in person in the 80's at a car show in Pittsburgh. Interesting car. He said it was a Gulf Research vehicle. Hard to think that it wasn't an original ZL-1, but what do experts say about it?

That Super Chevy article is the same thing John told me in the early to mid 90's. I'll have to find the pics I took of it back then. He also told me he had 13 engines in storage as he raced dirt track V8 late model cars. He'd pull the engine out of the vette, freshen it, install it in the dirt track car and purchase (given?) a new engine for the vette. His friend Burr Corbett is still alive and can back up everything John has said. Burr has known the car since day 1 (having mounted its' 1st set of slicks). Burr was also the lead Corvette judge for our local Autumn Leaf Festival (it attracted 15-20 vette's for judging).

First Corvette RPO ZL1 Availability
 

Per annotations on Chevrolet's internal NPC "Notice of Production Change C69-39" documentation, the first date that a ZL1 engine assembly was available for production installation at the St. Louis Corvette assembly plant for a Corvette with option RPO ZL1 was December 9, 1968.

Further, the separate internal Chevrolet document "Notice of Production Change C69-39, Supplement 1" indicates with annotations that the first day parts were available for building a Corvette with a M40 automatic option for RPO ZL1 was also December 9, 1968.

In the absence of any other internal Chevrolet documentation, the data from these NPC documents indicate it appears that on—or within days—of December 9th, 1968 the first Corvette with option "RPO ZL1" was built. Further, based on this documentation, any Corvette built prior to that date which may have had an aluminum ZL1 type engine installed would not have been with the "RPO ZL1" option code. Given the Daytona Yellow ZL1 is well documented to have been built in September 1969, these would be the two bookend RPO ZL1s.

NOTE: All internal Chevrolet documents referenced above have been uncovered at GM's Heritage Center within the last two years.

Thank you, rynoshark!


If i understand you correctly, internal GM documents show that:


- Only two (2) 1969 Corvettes were built with "RPO ZL1" option code, correct?


- The two (2) cars must have been built between 12/9/68 and September 69, correct?




Couple other questions for the forum, if i may:


- Is there a surviving copy of the window sticker, or dealer invoice, for the white car?


- Is there a surviving "tank sticker" or "Corvette Order Copy" (factory assembly sheet) for the white car?


Thank you, one and all!