Value question - 1969 Trans Am
 

Bad time for selling cars, but, a great one for buying.
Lets say there is a 'Day 2' numbers matching 4 speed TA for sale. Better than average driver, but not show quality.
The 'Day 2' piece is that a previous owner has added A/C, power windows and Cruise Control. All of this work was done by a Pontiac dealership (so it 'looks' like it was done at the factory), and all original parts were kept with the car. Not sure about paper work, but I know it has PHS docs.
What is it worth in today's market?
Thanks
Tas

Re: Value question - 1969 Trans Am
 

Tas:

It sounds like it would take very little to un-Day 2 the T/A. I'm assuming the AC is some type of aftermarket unit and the firewall is un-disturbed. PHS is all that you need for the car to document it. If the body is all there and presentable and as you say the drive-train is original, the T/A is worth a minimum of $50K. A driver quality car has high side of about $70-75K. Remember the Ram Air pans, Carburetor and hood are extremely difficult parts to find, if not impossible (for example: I was told by Legendary that the hoods are worth $15-18K). These are great cars, extremely rare and rock-solid investments and the four speed cars are the most desirable. No matter how nice an automatic T/A is, I have never seen them bring much more than $75-80K. Good Luck, Ed

Re: Value question - 1969 Trans Am
 

Ed
Thanks for the input
The AC, power windows, cruise control and rear defog are all Pontiac parts - owner that did this work had a Pontiac dealership and these were added to look as if the car came with them from the factory. All that was done in the early 80's during a restoration.
Talked to current owner. Car has 36,000 miles, M21 with 3.55 posi. Only non original item under hood is the water pump and he has the original, just needs rebuilt. AC blows, but not cold. AM/FM works, but 8 track is not working. Original hood is still on the car....
Man, I'd like to bring this one to meet my Camaros....just not sure I can pull it off

Re: Value question - 1969 Trans Am
 

Really hard to nail down a price because there are so many variables, but the $50K range for a driver is about right, $75K for a 4-speed with all the parts, over $100K for a good resto, $125K+ for a restored RAIV car, $1 million+ for one of the 8 ragtops.

Sounds like you found a great car though. Just a note, everything is repro'd for the 69 Trans Am now, so well done clones are easy to make. The upper and lower Ram Air pans are repro'd in steel, the 69 Trans Am hood is repro'd in steel, so all the previously hard Trans Am parts are now plentiful and cheap. Of course, original parts are always worth more....

With only 36,000 miles, sounds like a great find. Just a note, cruise control was not available with the 4-speed, but it sounds like it was dealer installed.

By any chance, was this car once owned by Dave Doern?

Re: Value question - 1969 Trans Am
 

I'm not sure if it was owned by Dave. I dont know any previous owners names at this point. Where does he live? I know the car was on the west coast for a long time.

Re: Value question - 1969 Trans Am
 

Dave was from around the Chicago area, but I lost track of him about 1997. He owned many rare Pontiacs, including a 1969 Trans Am that ended up in books, posters, etc. back in the 1980's. He loaded that Trans Am with virtually every available option (using all NOS parts) back in the 1980's, including power windows, rear defog, 8-track, tilt wheel, cruise, power antenna, and the seldom seen AM/FM Stereo 4-speaker radio. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/burnout.gif

Re: Value question - 1969 Trans Am
 

Does it have white rubber trim around the nose area?

Re: Value question - 1969 Trans Am
 

Sounds like it could be the same car.
It has the power antenna, power trunk release, power seat and fold down rear seat on the deluxe interior. The interior was changed from blue to black.

Re: Value question - 1969 Trans Am
 

Any idea what publications it was in?

Re: Value question - 1969 Trans Am
 

[ QUOTE ]
Dave was from around the Chicago area, but I lost track of him about 1997. He owned many rare Pontiacs, including a 1969 Trans Am that ended up in books, posters, etc. back in the 1980's. He loaded that Trans Am with virtually every available option (using all NOS parts) back in the 1980's, including power windows, rear defog, 8-track, tilt wheel, cruise, power antenna, and the seldom seen AM/FM Stereo 4-speaker radio. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/burnout.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Dave Doern, have not heard that name in awhile. I met him in the 80's when he was president of ,I believe, the local POCI chapter. He sourced me, from butler autoparts, 2 htp rear quarters for my 71 lemans sport convertible. He took me to a storage building in Skokie where he had some COOL stuff. The 2 I remember most were a 1985 black trans am (think kitt) with a factory aquired SD 455 in the engine bay. It fit like factory right down to the stickers on the cowl. He said a connection at Pontiac got him the original block.He also said that car was stupid fast with a wicked top end because of the 5 speed in the modern TA.
The other car was an olds, that he said was built for the head of olds or his wife. Anyway it was a sweet factory 442...................wagon!

Neat guy, I would love to know what happened to him and his cars.

On the TA sounds like a good one. Get a fresh PHS and while other stuff would be great, that is all you need.
Hope you get it........I got one. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

JOHN

Re: Value question - 1969 Trans Am
 

Dave's car was used during the 1980's whenever someone needed a photo of a 69 Trans Am. Unfortunately, Dave mistakenly had the white rubber gaskets, that go behind the headlight surrounds, painted white instead of leaving them black. Other than the incorrect white rubber gaskets behind the headlights, Dave's car used to be easily identified because he had those short-lived Goodyear Wingfoot tires (from around 1980) that had a white pinstripe.

I took photos of his car at a cruise night a long time ago, I'll see if I can dig them up. I believe he also had a 3-spoke Trans Am style steering wheel (but not factory), and a 1970 style dome light that used double switches/target style lights.

His car appeared in some books back in the 1980's, and on this poster (attached). You can see the Chicago skyline behind Dave's car...

Dave also had a 1989 Turbo Trans Am Pace Car, one of the cars that actually paced the Indy 500, with strobe lights, etc. He also had a 1994 Trans Am 25th Anniversary Firehawk Convertible, I believe the only one made.

Re: Value question - 1969 Trans Am
 

FYI, I don't believe the reproduction Ram Air parts look anything like the originals especially, the hood. At least I have not seen one that does. The underhood ducting isn't even close to the original. Good luck with the T/A, it sounds like a great car. If you decide not to do it... please let me know about the car. I already have one but two wouldn't be a crowd. Ed

Re: Value question - 1969 Trans Am
 

[ QUOTE ]
Dave was from around the Chicago area, but I lost track of him about 1997. He owned many rare Pontiacs, including a 1969 Trans Am that ended up in books, posters, etc. back in the 1980's. He loaded that Trans Am with virtually every available option (using all NOS parts) back in the 1980's, including power windows, rear defog, 8-track, tilt wheel, cruise, power antenna, and the seldom seen AM/FM Stereo 4-speaker radio. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/burnout.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, this sounds like Dave's former Trans-Am. Does it have a black Deluxe interior and a power passengers side seat??

Re: Value question - 1969 Trans Am
 

It does have the black deluxe interior with a fold down back seat.
I know it has a power drivers seat...not sure about the passenger. I've actually never heard of a power passenger bucket available for a '69 Firebird.

Re: Value question - 1969 Trans Am
 

FYI,I sold my numbers matching RA III T/A last year for 100K.Frame on resto meaning we did not do the underside of the car.Only thing missing was the correct carb.The repo RA pans are perfect and the the new parts place all metal hood is REALLY nice.Im doing a clone right now and have all the repo parts and compared them before I sold the real one.Tom

Re: Value question - 1969 Trans Am
 

If it's a real 3.55 car, I'd be willing to bet the tranny is a M20.

Re: Value question - 1969 Trans Am
 

Unfortunately Dave has passed away due to cancer.

I was just at a car show at a Chicago Mall on Labor day (09/02/2013). I met with some Pontiac gurus. Dave's name came up in our conversation. I was told that he died due to cancer, but I have only heard this from the one person. I assume it is true.

I was at Dave's shop a few decades ago when Dave was building his 1969 Trans Am. I do remember that he wanted to put every option on the car. He had a 1969 Firebird convertible sitting outside. He was taking the factory air conditioning off of the Firebird convertible and installing it on the Trans Am.

He had previously installed factory air on his 1973 Trans Am Sd-455 with a manual transmission. He also previously had installed factory air on his 1974 Trans Am SD-455 with a manual transmission. In case you did not know, Pontiac did not offer air conditioning on the SD-455 if it was equipped with a manual transmission.

I also remember that back in 1983 he installed a SD-344 in a black 1983 Trans Am. He also aded the ground effects package that was only available on the Daytona 500 Pace Car that year. He wanted to make sure that the centerline of the crankshaft of the SD-455 lined up with the centerline of the original 5.0 Liter engine. He made some special motor mounts to accomodate this feat. He also had to notch the underhood insulation hear the alternator so that he had clearance.

My most memorable moment with Dave was the first time that I went to his shop. He had some binders on the shelf. They contained all of the Car Distribution Bulletins and every memo send from the Zone Office to the dealers. He had binders for every year from 1969 through 1975. It was great to see the original memos to the dealers for the 1969 Trans Am as well as the original press release. It is also very interesting to see when various options went on hold status and got released from hold states (such as the SD-455). He let me take the binders home with me and photocopy every page. These documents are some of the most valuable I have for the Trans Am.

Re: Value question - 1969 Trans Am
 

Sorry for the typo in the previous post. The SD-344 should be SD-455.

Re: Value question - 1969 Trans Am
 

Wow.... Good read on an old thread.

Did b4camaro ever acquire this T/A?

Rich