COPO VALUES IN GENERAL
 

Since joining this site I have been watching what are both asking prices, sales prices, and suggested prices of these cars. I am assuming that as in the Mopar world a few years ago that the pony cars are typically bringing more money than the intermediates?

Are these current prices up, down, or stable from the past three years? I don't recall them being this high from watchin the Scottsale auctions then, but maybe I just wasn't paying attention.

I don't know if Chevrolet has published or if there is a list of dealer sold COPOs for numbers, but if so, what are the production number differences for comparision of lets say a 1969 COPO hardtop Camaro 427/425 steel block hardtop car vs. a hardtop 1970 Hemi Challenger @287 units or a hardtop 1970 Hemi Cuda @652 units?

Re: COPO VALUES IN GENERAL
 

As with almost all other muscle, collector and exotic cars the prices are now lower than they were demanding in 2006-2007. As such, they are still highly elevated over the early 2000's even at this point.

As for your question about the COPO's - dont get me wrong and dont think I am trying to insult you but do you ever read anything on this site? I think if you took 5 minutes to read about COPO cars that you would realize that there is virtually no paperwork available on them other than the GM Canada and ZL1 records. Everything that is known about them is coming from whatever papers or memory that people have of that period. The only thing that is known is the approximate number of MN & MO 427 blocks that were cast and the estimate derived from that of about 1000 COPO cars.

Re: COPO VALUES IN GENERAL
 

I'll let the COPO experts discuss current market, but will comment on comparing the '69 COPO Camaro to a 70 Hemi Challenger or Cuda. BTW, I own both Mopar and Bowties. Really different animals mostly because of the RPO (Mopars) vs the COPO (Camaros). It has always surprised me regarding the former huge price differential (x18mo. ago) betweeen the regular prod order Hemi E bodies (anyone could order one) vs. a select few in the know who knew about the COPO ordering process. I believe there were about 1,000 or so COPO '69 Camaros. Currently it appears, to my casual observation https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/tongue.gif , that a no stories, documented COPO Camaro is as strong or stronger than a comparable '70 Hemi E body. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: COPO VALUES IN GENERAL
 

Yes, I have read A LOT in the short time I have been a member here. However I have never seen anything that conclusively said there were no documented list of how many were built. This IS however a lot of reference to the fact that there is no conclusive way to determine if many of these cars ar REAL. Maybe YOU are confusing these two different things?

Is this "guestimated" 1000 cars for 1969 COPO Camaros ONLY or all COPO 427 cars of all years and all bodies?

I too am surprised at the price difference between the Camaros and the E bodies. I can't really see any difference weather they were available through the regualr dealer order process or the G.M. COPO process. The bottom line is the number built or these HP cars that really determines there values today.

I have another comparision I will bring up later but don't want to confuse things were discussing here.

Re: COPO VALUES IN GENERAL
 

The guess on the potential COPO build comes from the documented 427 engine production totals from the period.

Re: COPO VALUES IN GENERAL
 

So, anyone care to give a valuation of a #1 condition 1969 COPO hardtop Camaro with a steel 427/425 car based on recent verified sales price at auction or by reporting dealer?

Re: COPO VALUES IN GENERAL
 

I've have a few in stock. Make an offer and we might be able to determine what the current market value is today.

Re: COPO VALUES IN GENERAL
 

[ QUOTE ]
I've have a few in stock. Make an offer and we might be able to determine what the current market value is today.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now THAT is a salemans answer!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: COPO VALUES IN GENERAL
 

I see a few available now in the mid $100's - this was unheard of just a few years ago.

When you value these cars alot goes into what value can be attached to it. Most of the value is derived by the presence of original born with drivetrain and then grows from there. Documentation is the key to $$ with any COPO - the more you can document and verify the more you will get for the car. Also, the history of the car will also be a determining factor in setting the value of the car. One last factor is the options the car came with and the delivering dealer. Once you factor all of these together you can get a proposed value of the car but the true value can only be determined when the buyer arrives with the cash and the sale happens.

Re: COPO VALUES IN GENERAL
 

HI THE MAGIC NUMBER IS ????? 150,-175,

Re: COPO VALUES IN GENERAL
 

Sold! You can have the Vitar COPO at the bargain price of only $165,000.00.

Vitar COPO

Re: COPO VALUES IN GENERAL
 

So many variables on these but I think the right car should break 200k. Good docs with great color and options aren't that easy to find. I would guess 50k difference between a FG
auto and a RG 4spd.
My old DY, white interior 4spd will be at RS this month. Might get an idea from that one if it sells.

Re: COPO VALUES IN GENERAL
 

I am a little surprized at these pries based on what I have been gleening from previous threads on this site. I thought the pries would be higher. Maybe I am confusing these with the prices of the aluminum engin cars?
1970-71 Hemi E body hardtops autos have been selling in the $150K range with about a 5% add for 4 speed. I thought the COPO camaros were urrently selling for onsiderably more.

Now I am going to ask about another current valuation but in a new thread so as not to onfuse things.

Re: COPO VALUES IN GENERAL
 

I don't want to start an argument over Chevy vs. Mopar.
Looking at production numbers is a good way to start when you are trying to value something.
Also you have to look at the "fan base" and I would say without question the most popular brand back in the 60's and 70's was Chevrolet.
So, you might have the same production numbers but you might have more Chevrolet lovers out there.

Re: COPO VALUES IN GENERAL
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't want to start an argument over Chevy vs. Mopar.
Looking at production numbers is a good way to start when you are trying to value something.
Also you have to look at the "fan base" and I would say without question the most popular brand back in the 60's and 70's was Chevrolet.
So, you might have the same production numbers but you might have more Chevrolet lovers out there.

[/ QUOTE ]

No one is trying to start an arguement about this. I am simply making a comparision of the two.
I don't think that what was popular in the day has a whole lot to do with what people will pay for a car today. There are MANY hobbist/collectors out there today that are not necessarily brand loyal including myself. This is one of the big reasons for the big jump in Mopar prices a few years back. When it was basically Mopar people buying them the prices remained lower. Suddenly when many collectors realized the low producion numbers compared to GM and Ford products they started looking at and buying them.

I make the comparision between these cars because they are both pony cars with similar engines and similar production numbers.

Re: COPO VALUES IN GENERAL
 

The COPOs should really bring more than the Mopars based on the fan base and the fact that every E body can be IDed by the vin and very few COPOs have docs.

Re: COPO VALUES IN GENERAL
 

[ QUOTE ]
The COPOs should really bring more than the Mopars based on the fan base and the fact that every E body can be IDed by the vin and very few COPOs have docs.

[/ QUOTE ]


HUH??? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif
I don't understand your rationale' with that statement?
Yes, a Hemi E body is "documentable" by the V.I.N. which should certainly trump a "maybe" car that someone wants big money for.

Re: COPO VALUES IN GENERAL
 

You're hanging out on the wrong forum...This is the sYc site, "dedicated to the promotion and preservation of the Chevrolet dealer built Supercars and COPO cars"... and around here a mopar isn't "trumping" a COPO or any other Chevrolet Supercar.

I grow tired of these constant "what it's worth" arguments anyhow.

Re: COPO VALUES IN GENERAL
 

[ QUOTE ]
You're hanging out on the wrong forum...This is the sYc site, "dedicated to the promotion and preservation of the Chevrolet dealer built Supercars and COPO cars"... and around here a mopar isn't "trumping" a COPO or any other Chevrolet Supercar.

I grow tired of these constant "what it's worth" arguments anyhow.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not an arguement but rather an observation.

Yeah, I know what kind of a web site it is and the brand bias and I consider the source on those comments.

I am a CAR GUY, not a Mopar or a Chevy guy. I have owned MANY of both and simply like ALL old muscle cars, just some more than others.

When I joined this site I thought it was non-denominationalhttps://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gifand expected it to be just what the name implied a "supercar site" for all brand name supercars. It is a little confusing with the BIG "Super Car Registry" but then a web address of yenko.net, which I didn't notice for some time as i simply saved it to "my favorites" when I came across it. Too bad something like that doesn't really exist that everyone can just get along on and discuss ALL super cars without bias.

Re: COPO VALUES IN GENERAL
 

I simply meant that COPOs are rarer than Hemi E bodies. Although the production numbers are very close most of the COPOs can't be positively identified and every Hemi can. The Hemi engine makes the dif. Without it the values wouldn't even be close. I really like the V codes but in alot of cases they won't bring half the money of a Hemi.

Re: COPO VALUES IN GENERAL
 

I knew this was a Chevrolet oriented website when I came here. But part of what makes this site great is the depth of knowledge contained in it. Got a question about a Mopar? It's here. A Buick? It's here. Can't find it on your own? Ask. Somebody here knows. This site has probably one of the broadest knowledge bases on the internet, from Tri-5 Chevrolets to ...cough... late model Mustangs, and every American high-performance car in between. And that's what makes it one of the best car sites out there.

My two cents.

Re: COPO VALUES IN GENERAL
 

[ QUOTE ]
The Hemi engine makes the dif. Without it the values wouldn't even be close. I really like the V codes but in alot of cases they won't bring half the money of a Hemi.

[/ QUOTE ]

and if the camaro has a 396 it's worth 1/2 of a hemi cuda,

Re: COPO VALUES IN GENERAL
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The Hemi engine makes the dif. Without it the values wouldn't even be close. I really like the V codes but in alot of cases they won't bring half the money of a Hemi.

[/ QUOTE ]

and if the camaro has a 396 it's worth 1/2 of a hemi cuda,

[/ QUOTE ]

http://smiliesftw.com/x/facepalm.gif

Re: COPO VALUES IN GENERAL
 

That's an interesting comment to a fellow SYC member. Not to be disrespectful, but if there wasn't Mopar or Ford guys or those cars to be compared to...then the Copo's would not be worth as much as they are. It would be a pretty boring day at the strip. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: COPO VALUES IN GENERAL
 

Right from the Home page..

"The PREMIER Supercar site

Dedicated to the promotion and preservation of the Chevrolet dealer built Supercars and COPO cars."

....But alot of people that own or have owned these cars...have also owned or do own other brands....

...Hmmmm? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/scholar.gif

Re: COPO VALUES IN GENERAL
 

[ QUOTE ]
That's an interesting comment to a fellow SYC member. Not to be disrespectful, but if there wasn't Mopar or Ford guys or those cars to be compared to...then the Copo's would not be worth as much as they are. It would be a pretty boring day at the strip. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to disagree with you on this comment. I do not think that there is any parallel in value considerations between the COPO cars and any other brand offerings. The cars stand on thier own and what happens with other cars does not have any affect on thier value. What does affect thier value is the economy and what buyers can or are willing to pay.

Re: COPO VALUES IN GENERAL
 

my only point was what makes a cuda valuable is the hemi, same as what makes a copo special is the 427.

as a owner of numerous mopars, and a few chevy's , incl a copo as well as a BM , i'll state what i always say when i am at a mopar gathering...

i luv mopars, but when i wanta go fast, i take out a chevy.. and i don't say it to bust balls, its the truth...

Re: COPO VALUES IN GENERAL
 

I'm a Chevy fan as most are on this site. My comment was intended to allow a little space to those who may own other brands than bowties. Of course pricing is driven by economy and the willingness of someone to open up their pocket book, but the muscle car craze has generated and thrown all supercars into this high priced arena. I think the Big Three all help keep the interest and pricing of these cars up in the stratosphere they are in. Just my 2 cents https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif

Re: COPO VALUES IN GENERAL
 

rockn69, if you go to the main forum page, you'll see there is an entire section called "Other Muscle" that was created for non-Chevrolet cars and discussion, and its no secret many members own and are interested in other makes of cars besides Chevrolet. No one's ever been told not to discuss other makes on this site. But it should be noted that Chevrolet based supercars are the top dogs here, always have been...always will be.

Re: COPO VALUES IN GENERAL
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm a Chevy fan as most are on this site. My comment was intended to allow a little space to those who may own other brands than bowties. Of course pricing is driven by economy and the willingness of someone to open up their pocket book, but the muscle car craze has generated and thrown all supercars into this high priced arena. I think the Big Three all help keep the interest and pricing of these cars up in the stratosphere they are in. Just my 2 cents https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Pat,

I`m lov`n your passion https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

Dan.

Re: COPO VALUES IN GENERAL
 

Some comments since my last post addressing others.

My original purpose for this thread was to learn the true values of these cars today. I also wanted to compare them to the best comparible factory built car of the day . The Boss 429 could have been thrown in as well but I don't think they made anywhere near the numbers so I did not include them. I know there is another forum for other muscle but this thread has more to do with the COPOs than other muscle.

I think that WIW posts do a lot for a web site. They often either bring people to the site to post that know of an unknown car or possibly do the same with others that have been here for a while and are laying in the weeds.

These muscle car prices have PRIMARILY been driven by their h.p. and their reputations on the race tracks. The body styles do play a role as well and when you mix the two in a FACTORY combination it really brings on the interest/value.

Yes, a Hemi powered E body jacks the price up, but that is all a COPO Camaro is as well, just the addition of the big engine and what came with it, take that away and it is just another Camaro.

Generally I compare muscle cars from make to make based on the factory h.p. ratings and usually the pricing is close. There are a few exceptions. When we get into the 425 h.p. and above cars, the true h.p. is often hidden in those factory ratings for insurance purposes of the day. They are rated at rpm ranges that are not the true potential of that engines.

For the most part six pack Mopars are 1/2 or less than a hemi in the same body with the exception of the 1969 six pack Bees and RRs as the price of Hemi cars in those body styles has slipped more than the values of the 69 six pack cars.

For the short period of time I have been here I will agree that there seems to be a vast amount of knowledge of all makes which is nice to see.

Regarding the comment of which make is faster I would not BEGIN to open that arguement here other than to say that is what dragstrips are for. We all know that there are so many varables with the old car magazine test of the day that any of the cars being tested could have been beaten by it's factory competitor on any given day. This is what makes this hobby so much fun.

Re: COPO VALUES IN GENERAL
 

great discussion guys - gotta love this site! Just my two cents - but I (and I believe many others on this site) love the late '60 through early '70s US muscle car era. That's why I collect cars from that period. Hemi Challenger, COPO Camaro, A/C Cobra, and '67 GT500 are my favorites - that's why they're in my garage. When you see them sitting side by side - it's a great sight. COPO Camaro will always be my favorite of all though!

Re: COPO VALUES IN GENERAL
 

With the COPO Camaros, the values can be a broad range depending on original drivetrain, paperwork, know history, etc. Assuming you are referring to a car that is original drivetrain with paperwork and a proper restoration, I would guess the COPO 427/425hp cars are still in the $200-250K range. I really don't have any recent sales information though so it's a guess based on asking prices. COPO cars with non original drivetrain or no paperwork seem to be under $200K but again that's a guesstimate. There's really no reason to compare them to any other make/model of car because it comes down to supply and demand. Maybe if anyone knowing of any real recent sales could chime it the price window might be better defined.

Re: COPO VALUES IN GENERAL
 

I personally think the Hemi cars are great cars but over inflated.

Correct me if I'm wrong but it was a lot easier to get a Hemi back in the day than it was to get a COPO?

Re: COPO VALUES IN GENERAL
 

there are several on ebay at this time.not sure about if there real or not but there are some on there for value ideas.

Re: COPO VALUES IN GENERAL
 

150k - 250k for a non Yenko depending on whether or not it has the Sports Car Conversion, D80, gauges etc...
Setting aside the engine and a few major items, without having a fairly extensive base of knowledge about the minute details of COPO's, a person could overlook one in a micro second... however if you know the numbers all you have to do is look at a Mopar TT.

Re: COPO VALUES IN GENERAL
 

Boss 429's are right in the thick of this debate, with production of 1358 (859/499-69/70), a big special motor and an iconic bodystyle. All 4speeds so we don't have to worry about that variable. They're currently in this price structure as well, with $150K buying a good car without a lot of needs, but likely with a NOM block and in a common color (White or Grabber Blue). $200K+ for killer cars with original engines, and to get beyond that you probably would have to have a time capsule black or red S-motor (so-called NASCAR spec motor the first 272 cars had) car with perfect history.

Though I agree that the market drives these similar cars to similar levels, I bristle a bit when people try to formulate equations based upon production and horsepower ratings. Boss 302's and '69 Z/28's shouldn't be valuable with these criteria. Less than 300 advertised hp and 20K production do not equate with $50K-$100K examples. Just demand and supply.

And people have to like the cars. Copos, Bosses, and Cudas are pretty cars. Hemi Darts are awesome, but not pretty, and not practical to even hit a cruise night in.

Finally, IMO you have to forgive a LOT about E-bodies to step up and pay the big money. I loved looking at these cars since I was a kid. Wanted a Challenger since I first saw Kowalski popping pills and burning rubber on a midnight showing of Vanishing Point. Finally got my first drive (in a RED 440 6 PACK, no less) in '93. I was very disappointed:( The doors that rattle for 5 seconds after you close them, the interior made out of too few pieces of molded plastic, etc. I've never gotten over it. I'll probably never own a 70/71 Cuda or Challenger because of my failure to allow great style and killer drivetrains to overcome the rest of it. (No offense to E body owners. You have beautiful cars. I just won't be buying them https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif)

Re: COPO VALUES IN GENERAL
 

We sold a few Hemi Cudas last year all were 4 speeds.

The low was $165,000.00 for a driver quality Hemi up to the Mid $200,000.00 range. The Hemi Cuda we had at Russo and Steele last year was a no sale at $235-$240,000, range plus the buyers premium.

We also currently have a very original Survivor Cuda for sale which will be running across the block at Russo and Steele in a couple of weeks, so we might have a chance to feel things out on that one.

Comparable L72 9561 COPO Camaros have been and are bringing close to these prices today. Tomorrow may be different.

Yenko L72 9561s fetch approx. $75-$100k more, car for car and ZL1 9560 COPOs fetch approx. double the Yenko number car for car.

With that said generalities are just that, and when the supply demand equasion is out of whack either way, you can have wild price swings up or down.

Re: COPO VALUES IN GENERAL
 

Have you sold or know of any '71 Hemi E bodies that have sold recently-specifically Challengers??

MB

Re: COPO VALUES IN GENERAL
 

I sold a Low Mileage MINT original body Black 71' Hemi Challenger 4 spd Mr. Norms car with TONS of original documentation last year.. for I beleive $235k which I thought was fair money for a non shaker car with a warranty motor.

I currently know of a couple 71's for sale around the 200k range. I would say the market is 175k to 275k depending on the car, color and options and add about another 100k on top of that for a 71' Cuda IMO. And those are price where you could find a buyer I know some guys are still asking insane money but they arent finding buyers.