ZL-1 block versus Can-Am block?
 

A hot rod acquaintance has a 1969-1970 vintage Aluminum BBC motor. He claims it came from Bill Jenkin's shop many years ago and has just been rebuilt. I assumed it was an over-the-counter ZL-1 block but he referred to it as a "Can-Am" block. Are these the same blocks? If not,what are the differences?
He said the Can-Am block was used by Jim Hall in the Chapparal program.
Any thoughts?

Thanks- DandyDon

Re: ZL-1 block versus Can-Am block?
 

Off hand, the Can Am block should have a larger bore (sleeve) size -- 4.440-inches versus 4.25-inches for the ZL1. The original Can Am engine was built with a short stroke (3.47...I think, but I'm getting old) for a final displacement of 430 cubic inches, but that changed quickly.....a 4.0-inch 454 crank produced a 494. And as we all know, there's "no replacement for displacement" <g>. IIRC there are other differences, but that's the big one.

Wayne

Re: ZL-1 block versus Can-Am block?
 

Jenkins did run CanAm blocks...is there truth to where it came from?.
What's the casting #?.
Is there a provision in the block for a mechanical fuel pump?.
Lance 'midyr' on this site may be able to share some insight as he ran a few of these blocks back in the day and ended up w/ what was left of Geo. Eaton's CanAm stuff..

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif
~ Pete

Re: ZL-1 block versus Can-Am block?
 

I don't think the Can-Am blocks had any provisions to mount a fuel pump on the block either.

Re: ZL-1 block versus Can-Am block?
 

I don't think they have side motor mount bosses. From what I can remember on them. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: ZL-1 block versus Can-Am block?
 

The motor that was in my 70 Camaro was a Can Am motor. Dave libby told me that it was. The pictures taken in 1970 prove that. The block had no winters flake on it and has a fuel pump where the fuel pump mounting boss is. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

Re: ZL-1 block versus Can-Am block?
 

From CRG.... http://www.camaros.org/copo.shtml talking about ZL1 production engines vs Can Am engines.

[ QUOTE ]
In production form, the engine differed from Can-Am configuration. The dry-sump oil passage was eliminated and provision for a mechanical fuel pump added. Production tooling was developed for the block (castings #3946052/53), cylinder heads (#3946074), and intake manifold (#3933198). A new aluminum water pump was to be included (and at least one and perhaps two Camaros were built with it), but last minute testing raised reliability questions.

Chevrolet continued to develop the Can-Am version of the aluminum big block for racing, progressing to a liner-less 390-alloy block buildable in displacements of 430, 441, 494 and 510 cubic inches. These did not have provision for a mechanical fuel pump. They were never used in production and few were produced.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.v8buick.com/images/smilies/bla.gif

Re: ZL-1 block versus Can-Am block?
 

Here's the block casting #'s and info I've collected..
Please feel free to add the missing & more info also clarify and/or correct any mistakes..


Can-Am blocks 68/69 - Reynolds
# 0-294550 = Linerless?
# 0-321270 = Linerless?
# O-326711 = 4.44" bore with steel liners (427 ci)

Can-Am blocks 70/71 - Reynolds?.
# O-399204 = 4.5" bore and steel liners (509 ci)
# O-495102 = 4.5" bore and no liners

ZL-1 Factory blocks - 1969 - Winters
# 3946052 (No 'O') 427 ci.

ZL-1 Factory blocks - 1997 & up
# 3946053 (No 'O') 427 ci.

# 3992038 (O?) * may be 4.44" bore w/ Liners - era?.

# ? - Yenko - Casting has YENKO
# ? - Yenko - Casting has Y E N K O
# ? - Yenko - Casting has Yenko Crest Logo

# 3946502 is the # quoted on the Guinn's Engineering site but the # is actually 3946052 as shown in their pics..

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif
~ Pete

--------------------
I like real cars best...especially the REAL real ones!

Re: ZL-1 block versus Can-Am block?
 

Here is a pic taken by Jon Asher in 1971. please note no winters flake & fuel pump boss. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

Re: ZL-1 block versus Can-Am block?
 

What's this ? https://www.yenko.net/attachments/453672-005.JPG

Re: ZL-1 block versus Can-Am block?
 

Kinda looks like some #s cast in alumium. Other than that have no clue. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: ZL-1 block versus Can-Am block?
 

I have a NOS GM Can Am camshaft that is also from Bill Jenkins shop. The most radical cam ever made by GM!

Re: ZL-1 block versus Can-Am block?
 

----Charley,,,Is the second 7 really a seven??? It is obviously different than the other 7. Just wondering........Bill S

Re: ZL-1 block versus Can-Am block?
 

I would say yes.

Re: ZL-1 block versus Can-Am block?
 

The true 'Can-Am' block is the unit Hot Rod magazine did a tech feature on in the Sep 1972 issue: no liners, no fuel pump.

Can-Am racers did not use the standard fuel pump so if an aluminum block has the provision it's not the Can-Am version.

Re: ZL-1 block versus Can-Am block?
 

If it works, this is the pic Lance 'midyr' posted here previously of some of the stuff he got from Geo. Eaton's CanAm team..

https://www.yenko.net/attachments/425...ec1969pic2.jpg

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif
~ Pete

Yenko can am engine
 

Here is some information on Yenko's ca am engine, I have owned this engine for 40 years, bought from an old drag racer, whose name is long forgotten. The engine now sits in my 1969 camaro, some call it a Yenko ZL1. It has the 4.44 bore with a 454 steel crank, ( near 500 c.i. ) The casting seems to read 3946052, same as a ZL1. I was told this is an early engine, that when Yenko bought the molds, chevy told Don to lose the winter snow flake, but forgot to tell him to change the casting number, which Do did changing it to 3946053. This engine has ZL1 aluminum heads, intake, with a 850 holly carb. pictures to comeAttachment 118460

Attachment 118461

Attachment 118462

Attachment 118463

Attachment 118464 soon

ZL1 blocks were cast by Winters under two part numbers; 3946052 & 3946053. Production ZL1 Camaros can have either. Yenko did not change it.

My friend has a complete disassembled '73 Can Am engine, aluminium bores, no mech. fuel pump provision. I can take pictures of any particular details if anybody wanted them.

I have had 2 big bore blocks and both were 052 casting and externally identical to a 4.25 block.

Jason

I have the Reynolds Aluminum Block that came from Grumpy's Toy IV that won the 1970 Winternationals and documentation/pictures from the Peterson Archive with this exact engine in the car. It is a 0-326711 block and what Bill was running at the time. I heard Bill didn't like the ZL-1 block and had something to do with heat transfer causing them to lose power as the day went on. I have been in contact with the current owners of Grumpy's Toy IV to see if they are interested in it before I put in my car. I would post some pictures, just not sure how to add them.

That is awesome you have that Reynolds Aluminum block. Agree Bill Jenkins has said he didnt like those ZL-1 Blocks because of bad core shift and the cylinder seal had bad blow by causing bad ring seal resulting in power loss. That is cool you are contacting the current owners if they are interested in that Reynolds block. Great story. Good luck and like hearing these stories.

To add to the story......So I contacted the folks that supposedly have Grumpy's Toy IV in Pennsylvania (Dale & Vicki) and sent them the pictures of the motor with the documentation that is was indeed the motor that was published by the Peterson Archive. I offered them the motor for what I purchased it for as I thought it should go to them. They let me know today that they wanted to pass on buying it. The potential value of a Jenkins car with the motor that won the 1970 Winternationals beating the Ronnie Sox car would put it in the stratosphere......I was shocked at their response!! Well, it is going in my Camaro where I intended it to go when I bought it. It is a Yenko built SCCA car, later turned into a drag car. This will be a good fit rather than the 1969 ZL-1 block that I was going to use. I will post a few pictures when I get it out of the crate.

That's really too bad. It would have been great to see it back in that car.

'

No need to feel bad as their car's a well known clone also actually a '67.:ooo:
The truth's been discussed in a few threads here over the years, this one w/ the most info...
https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=139335
:beers:
~ Pete

.

did you try to contact the owner of the 1970 Grumpy Camaro? maybe they will be interested

Bill used the 68 , the 69, and the 1970 Camaro in 1970 Pro Stock and match racing using many different engines Cam Am , ZL1, iron car blocks and truck blocks


Sometimes running multiple cars in one race

Well, that explains it. Thank you for the clarification and link Pete. I did see a few posts on other sites that said it was not Toy IV, but they kept responding and arguing that it was....I fell for it!! I am sorry I sent them a copy of the documentation/details I had on the block. I have not contacted the owners of the 69 or 70 cars. I think I would rather put in my car as intended at this point since I was unable to reunite with Toy IV.

I used to talk to Bill on a regular basis before he passed. I know he did not like the aluminum blocks at all. Even the cylinder heads. Those blocks have a lot of porosity in them just not compact enough. On the dyno your looking at a 10-12% loss

The car out in Pittsburgh is a fake. The whole story about Toy 4 was a ex SCCA car was fabricated. Its very easy to disprove the whole story by looking at original pictures of Toy 4 and compare them to the fake one from Pittsburgh. The easy way to i.d. the car is when Jenkins had the car and when Brooklyn Heavy had the car there was no full cage like the Pittsburgh car has that was claimed to be installed before Jenkins got it.

Agree, Bill said the Aluminum heads didnt put out the horsepower like the iron head then. Thinking heat transfer had something to do with it. Yes the aluminum heads were lighter, but loss of horsepower was down.

New owner of Grumpy's Toy VIII Interested in your block
 

I recently purchased the remains of Grumpy's Toy VIII. I'd like the opportunity to discuss purchasing this block from you.

Is this the TOY that was for sale with just the bars and dash pretty much? IF SO, glad to see you taking this on and bringing it back to life.

Congrads and good luck, John

That's the one. Thank you for the kind words, it might be a bumpy road ahead but there is a plan in place to do some really nice tribute stuff with this ol girl.

this chassis was for sale online and was said to be the remains of Grumpy's 70 Camaro

That would be her Joe. On the bright side at least I'm seeing her at her worst.

Grumpy, one ALWAYS sees the wife undressed before we marry them! This is the same, nothing hidden. Good luck

I wonder why someone would cut the body off like that.

The same question that's been asked hundreds of times before. Perhaps in the future I'll be able to answer that.

I found this in the Sep '72 Hot Rod.

Were there two?

Grumpy's 1970 Camaro PRO car was restored many years ago and consigned to Mecum Kissimmee 2011.