“Pontiac Performance Years” Brownshirts
 

Please be careful in challenging anything said on the “Pontiac Performance Years” Bulletin Board or you will not be allowed to post. One night not being able to sleep after a long day at work-I made my first post to the site. I challenged one member who is particularly viscous in attacking anyone or anything that does not subscribe to his belief that Pontiac is the Supreme Being.

I have read the board for years and found it amusing to see the ruthless diatribes against every other car marque or enthusiast, but this was my first time challenging the propaganda spewed from the site. As soon as anyone is challenged in a fair and reasoned debate they are immediately blocked by the administrators and censored from posting a response.

It is clear the administrators at the “Pontiac Performance Years” website refuse to offer a democratic debate for other viewpoints.This makes one all the more appreciative of “The Supercar Registry” where all varied opinion and reasoned discussion is tolerated and encouraged. RM

Re: “Pontiac Performance Years” Brownshirts
 

that board is garbage.

Re: “Pontiac Performance Years” Brownshirts
 

Well stated and I agree. I can't stand going there anymore, which is unfortunate since I love Pontiac's and used to really enjoy reading that site. There was one guy in particular who insisted on constantly demonstrating his ignorance regarding "5.slow" Mustangs. I finally posted a pic of Billy Glidden's black GT making yet another 7 second pass and stated "It's funny how, despite your obvious hatred, the 5.0 Mustang seems to be your standard of comparison." The post was quickly deleted.

I love all the eras and all the brands, so I guess I just can't understand why car guys insist on dividing themselves along marque, era, or some other equally silly lines. Between the government, the environmentalists, etc, we have plenty of potential legitimate problems without arguing amongst ourselves over silliness. There's a difference between being a fan of you favorite car, a little good natured ribbing among friends, and ignorant, hateful homerism.

Re: “Pontiac Performance Years” Brownshirts
 

DON'T LUMP EVERYONE INTO THE SAME CATAGORY.....Every forum has its HARDCORES....

I stick to the 70-73 Firebird section pretty much and I can tell you one thing for sure, PY is the most knowledgeable Pontiac Forum on the web PERIOD. The guys that frequent the 70-73 section are extremely helpful to all. I'm sure that the WELL RESPECTED NJ Steve will back me up on this one as he has become a mainstay of that section.

Re: “Pontiac Performance Years” Brownshirts
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Norwood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">DON'T LUMP EVERYONE INTO THE SAME CATAGORY.....Every forum has its HARDCORES....

I stick to the 70-73 Firebird section pretty much and I can tell you one thing for sure, PY is the most knowledgeable Pontiac Forum on the web PERIOD. The guys that frequent the 70-73 section are extremely helpful to all. I'm sure that the WELL RESPECTED NJ Steve will back me up on this one as he has become a mainstay of that section. </div></div>
I love the historical knowledge on that site. It seems as though the most knowledgable people in the Pontiac hobby congregate there. I just spent a couple hours there the other day re-reading Keith Seymore's thread about his dad's history with Royal, and the thread on Wanger's Blackbird. It's those hardcore guys that turn what should be enjoyable into a chore. I guess my feeling is, if you genuinely dislike a particular brand of car that much, just don't mention it period.

Re: “Pontiac Performance Years” Brownshirts
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Norwood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm sure that the WELL RESPECTED NJ Steve will back me up on this one as he has become a mainstay of that section. </div></div>

I would completely disagree: I am certainly not WELL RESPECTED. Just ask my kids! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/youguysrock.gif[/img]

Re: “Pontiac Performance Years” Brownshirts
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Norwood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm sure that the WELL RESPECTED NJ Steve will back me up on this one as he has become a mainstay of that section. </div></div>

I would completely disagree...

...I am certainly not WELL RESPECTED. Just ask my kids! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/youguysrock.gif[/img] </div></div>

You disagree with me or you agree with me? You are Well Respected on the board for sure. That kid thing is UNIVERSAL..LOL but they get better as the mature.

Re: “Pontiac Performance Years” Brownshirts
 

I was disagreeing about my well-respectedness. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img]

Re: “Pontiac Performance Years” Brownshirts
 

The sport of criticizing cars on that website has gone beyond any useful purpose. &quot;Shark Tanking&quot; of cars has moved to a juvenile level. I had a 73 Formula with an absolutely 100% original interior (it was nearly as nice as my 4,000 mile Formula) on ebay. After the esteemed panel finished their criticism of every aspect of the interior and exterior, I spent the next week trying to convince potential buyers that the interior had not been re-dyed, the glove box door was original, interior components faded at different rates, etc. Because they read it on PY, it must be true.

After the first Bloomington All Survivor Show, my 4,000 mile 73 Formula was given an award by the judges so, they got on their soap boxes and started writing the different ways that they could tell it wasn't original. Well, Steve Shauger was one of the judges and said the car was in &quot;As Delivered Condition&quot;. I won't even try to describe the pounding my Yenko TA took.

While I agree that everyone on the PY site doesn't operate in this fashion, many, many of them do. It makes for an unfriendly environment. I don't post there anymore.

Re: “Pontiac Performance Years” Brownshirts
 

Could you post the link that has disrupted your sleep?

Re: “Pontiac Performance Years” Brownshirts
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1969z280</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The sport of criticizing cars on that website has gone beyond any useful purpose. &quot;Shark Tanking&quot; of cars has moved to a juvenile level. I had a 73 Formula with an absolutely 100% original interior (it was nearly as nice as my 4,000 mile Formula) on ebay. After the esteemed panel finished their criticism of every aspect of the interior and exterior, I spent the next week trying to convince potential buyers that the interior had not been re-dyed, the glove box door was original, interior components faded at different rates, etc. Because they read it on PY, it must be true.
</div></div>


I remember that &quot;discussion&quot;! I even posted photos of the exact same dark saddle interior in my Gramma's 75 Firebird which we owned since new, and it still didn't stop the debate.

Your interior:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...8/IMG_1668.jpg

My interior:


http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...S7006292-1.jpg

(My carpet was replaced 25 years ago -I need to get the correct dark saddle loop)

Re: “Pontiac Performance Years” Brownshirts
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1969z280</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The sport of criticizing cars on that website has gone beyond any useful purpose. &quot;Shark Tanking&quot; of cars has moved to a juvenile level. I had a 73 Formula with an absolutely 100% original interior (it was nearly as nice as my 4,000 mile Formula) on ebay. After the esteemed panel finished their criticism of every aspect of the interior and exterior, I spent the next week trying to convince potential buyers that the interior had not been re-dyed, the glove box door was original, interior components faded at different rates, etc. Because they read it on PY, it must be true.

After the first Bloomington All Survivor Show, my 4,000 mile 73 Formula was given an award by the judges so, they got on their soap boxes and started writing the different ways that they could tell it wasn't original. Well, Steve Shauger was one of the judges and said the car was in &quot;As Delivered Condition&quot;. I won't even try to describe the pounding my Yenko TA took.

While I agree that everyone on the PY site doesn't operate in this fashion, many, many of them do. It makes for an unfriendly environment. I don't post there anymore.
</div></div>

Sorry to bring this here and I will not post on this after this.
1969z280, Here are links to the PY threads that are upsetting to you for all to read. I hope that people here read them. As I stated before the PY group is overall the most knowledgeable Pontiac group on the web, and yes they are a fickle bunch and they do love to find faults but they also give a good car its due. I can see why in your business of buying and selling these cars that you would want to steer people away from web sites that may hinder one of your sales, but they can also help in a sale as well. In the end it is the buyer that needs to decide if what he is looking at is real. Keep flipping them you seem to be very good at it.

As far as the Yenko goes you need to remember that on PY you are dealing with PURISTS for the most part. How many Camaro guys would compliment the instalation of a 455 Pontiac into a Z/28, not many I think. I loved the yenko and did get a good look at it in Rosemont.

Original thread on white car
http://forums.performanceyears.com/f...d.php?t=608218
Second thread on white car
http://forums.performanceyears.com/f...hlight=formula

This is the tread that you say hurt the sale of your white car, your kidding right?

http://forums.performanceyears.com/f...d.php?t=661386

As you may remember I had the opportunity to see and drive the 4000 mile car a few times so I do know first hand about this car, did I question it? I think any smart person would, I take it all with a grain of salt,
unless I know the car from new. Way too many people out there telling stories to make a buck.


Here it is in my Driveway sporting the wrong wheels, trim rings and center caps.
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...4/birds011.jpg


original thread on 4000 mile gold car
http://forums.performanceyears.com/f...d.php?t=539064

second thread on gold car

http://forums.performanceyears.com/f...d.php?t=568461


Steve I'm sorry but you might do a little Shark Tanking as well
http://forums.performanceyears.com/f...d.php?t=658090

Re: “Pontiac Performance Years” Brownshirts
 

I don't doubt that I have, but for the most part mine are constructive and usually complimentary.

On a 71 T/A from your link: &quot;Sitting kind of high on the springs. Wrong battery, rad cap. Missing blackout section on lower portion of nose, where the four mounting bolts are visible in the valance opening. Nice car otherwise.&quot;

[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif[/img]

Re: “Pontiac Performance Years” Brownshirts
 

Steve, that's my point. That's is what the &quot;Shark Tank&quot; is and for the most part those are the kind of comments that get posted. Please give me a link to where it just got down right dirty and people should be offended by what is said. For certain someone who Flips and use the boards as a spring board for their business.

I'm never selling my car just so I stay out of the tank. LOL

Re: “Pontiac Performance Years” Brownshirts
 

I keep meaning to take more pics of my car so I can throw it in the shark tank..... they'd probably rip it to shreads... Nothing wrong with constructive criticism.

I'm guilty of throwing a couple of cars in &quot;the Tank&quot;. I think it intresting to see what other people have to say about a car that is presented as being &quot;perfect&quot; or pumped up as being &quot;the best&quot;. I always get a good chuckle out of cars that are misrepresented.... or grossly overpriced.... and sometimes post them when I see them.

Re: “Pontiac Performance Years” Brownshirts
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Norwood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Steve, that's my point. That's is what the &quot;Shark Tank&quot; is and for the most part those are the kind of comments that get posted. Please give me a link to where it just got down right dirty and people should be offended by what is said. For certain someone who Flips and use the boards as a spring board for their business.

I'm never selling my car just so I stay out of the tank. LOL </div></div>

I've gotten a good amount of shark tanking on my car in 7 years but whenever it was constructive (such as relating to a component I did not know was incorrect) I am happy to hear it.

I also bite back, too - go look at when they made fun of my vintage white Trans Am plastic mudflaps I was going to install! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif[/img]

It all worked out for the best, though. The main guy who made fun of my mudflaps supplied me with a bunch of good parts over the years.

Re: “Pontiac Performance Years” Brownshirts
 

I also post in the 70-73 Firebird section. Extremely knowledgeable group of guys.....mostly, they are super focused on the &quot;correct&quot; side of the hobby...and its great because I learn so much about the details on these cars.
My car doesn't get a lot of comments (I have a build thread there) because its more a pro-touring style build, but thats fine...a few guys like to see what I'm doing.
Don't really post much in the Lobby area...or other areas.

Re: “Pontiac Performance Years” Brownshirts
 

Like any board you will get your bullies, but for the most part they are a group of passionate car guys who's depth &amp; breadth of knowledge is unmatched.

Ed, I'd have to agree - your cars have taken an unfair bashing over there!

Re: “Pontiac Performance Years” Brownshirts
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I've gotten a good amount of shark tanking on my car in 7 years but whenever it was constructive (such as relating to a component I did not know was incorrect) I am happy to hear it.

I also bite back, too - go look at when they made fun of my vintage white Trans Am plastic mudflaps I was going to install! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif[/img]

It all worked out for the best, though. The main guy who made fun of my mudflaps supplied me with a bunch of good parts over the years. </div></div>


Yes he is the Purist of the Purists, but he has mellowed recently. Just one of the many good guys on the PY board. In fact he did just send me that temp sender and it looks NOS and he asked me for nothing. Thank you for offering me your sender. A lot of that goes on under the radar on PY.

Re: “Pontiac Performance Years” Brownshirts
 

So I guess it was the &quot;Auto Enthusiast&quot; thread?

I didn't find anything extraordinary - just a bunch of people bench racing.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RM Schimel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Please be careful in challenging anything said on the “Pontiac Performance Years” Bulletin Board or you will not be allowed to post. One night not being able to sleep after a long day at work-I made my first post to the site. I challenged one member who is particularly viscous in attacking anyone or anything that does not subscribe to his belief that Pontiac is the Supreme Being.

I have read the board for years and found it amusing to see the ruthless diatribes against every other car marque or enthusiast, but this was my first time challenging the propaganda spewed from the site. As soon as anyone is challenged in a fair and reasoned debate they are immediately blocked by the administrators and censored from posting a response.

It is clear the administrators at the “Pontiac Performance Years” website refuse to offer a democratic debate for other viewpoints.This makes one all the more appreciative of “The Supercar Registry” where all varied opinion and reasoned discussion is tolerated and encouraged. RM
</div></div>

Re: “Pontiac Performance Years” Brownshirts
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1969z280</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The sport of criticizing cars on that website has gone beyond any useful purpose. &quot;Shark Tanking&quot; of cars has moved to a juvenile level. I had a 73 Formula with an absolutely 100% original interior (it was nearly as nice as my 4,000 mile Formula) on ebay. After the esteemed panel finished their criticism of every aspect of the interior and exterior, I spent the next week trying to convince potential buyers that the interior had not been re-dyed, the glove box door was original, interior components faded at different rates, etc. Because they read it on PY, it must be true.

After the first Bloomington All Survivor Show, my 4,000 mile 73 Formula was given an award by the judges so, they got on their soap boxes and started writing the different ways that they could tell it wasn't original. Well, Steve Shauger was one of the judges and said the car was in &quot;As Delivered Condition&quot;. I won't even try to describe the pounding my Yenko TA took.

While I agree that everyone on the PY site doesn't operate in this fashion, many, many of them do. It makes for an unfriendly environment. I don't post there anymore.
</div></div>
Think you will find that your car was vindicated a few times by people, or sharks.
The Shark tank is basically a chance for people to say what they are thinking anyways. Having restored a COPO and owned a early ( 68) low mileage Z-28, I have been picked apart, or rather my cars. The good part is that people step up, and correct those that are wrong. There are Judges that dont know what they are looking at. I was told a bunch of times my actual original engine in my 68 camaro was a chevelle engine stamped with my correct VIN on it, why, because, at the time nobody had seen the L-30 68 Camaros, and the ol RED book was wrong...
Py forums has alot of great people. Most are partial to Pontiac, yes, but still great folks.
Keep in mind, if we all were not at least a little stubborn, we wouldn't have accomplished anything!

Re: “Pontiac Performance Years” Brownshirts
 

Quote from PY..

&quot;I've really enjoyed reading the shark threads lately. They're a great learning tool, and when you come across a car like I did today--they help you appreciate attention to detail even more.&quot;

I remember NJSTEVE about to put his all chrome rear PONTIAC letters on his car, all clean and shinny... some SHARK came in and got him painting them white!! and they look fabulous...
Being all 100 original isnt for everyone, and even me at this point, but its very nice to know, and learn...

Re: “Pontiac Performance Years” Brownshirts
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 442w30</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I guess it was the &quot;Auto Enthusiast&quot; thread?

I didn't find anything extraordinary - just a bunch of people bench racing.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RM Schimel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Please be careful in challenging anything said on the “Pontiac Performance Years” Bulletin Board or you will not be allowed to post. One night not being able to sleep after a long day at work-I made my first post to the site. I challenged one member who is particularly viscous in attacking anyone or anything that does not subscribe to his belief that Pontiac is the Supreme Being.

I have read the board for years and found it amusing to see the ruthless diatribes against every other car marque or enthusiast, but this was my first time challenging the propaganda spewed from the site. As soon as anyone is challenged in a fair and reasoned debate they are immediately blocked by the administrators and censored from posting a response.

It is clear the administrators at the “Pontiac Performance Years” website refuse to offer a democratic debate for other viewpoints.This makes one all the more appreciative of “The Supercar Registry” where all varied opinion and reasoned discussion is tolerated and encouraged. RM
</div></div> </div></div>


Here is the link to the discussion

http://forums.performanceyears.com/f...21#post4366321

I have no problem with spirited debate, as a practicing trial attorney that is what I do for a living. However when only one side is allowed to express their viewpoint and the other side’s views are blocked by the administrator of the forum that presents a real problem. It only serves to diminish any level of credibility the site or forum has with its subscribers. It is an easy task to attack someone’s views-if the other side is left defenseless and unable to respond. This seems to be the rule of the day at the Pontiac Performance Years Bulletin Board. RM

Re: “Pontiac Performance Years” Brownshirts
 

I would be interested in what you are not allowed to say.

Re: “Pontiac Performance Years” Brownshirts
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Boss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Like any board you will get your bullies, but for the most part they are a group of passionate car guys who's depth &amp; breadth of knowledge is unmatched.

Ed, I'd have to agree - your cars have taken an unfair bashing over there! </div></div>


Boss did you read the threads on the cars? You think that is unfair bashing? WOW

Re: “Pontiac Performance Years” Brownshirts
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Norwood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would be interested in what you are not allowed to say. </div></div>
I was blocked from responding in any manner on the “Pontiac Performance Years” bulletin board until this particular discussion and criticism occurred. But now I see they have added my response from several days ago … I believe that my response was quite mundane anyway and not something that needed to be censored. But to each his own! RM

Re: “Pontiac Performance Years” Brownshirts
 

I enjoy PY along with other Forums including this one but like anything else it only takes one (a few) to ruin it for all. There every where just turn on the news. I'm sure you have one in your state too!

Re: “Pontiac Performance Years” Brownshirts
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Norwood</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Boss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Like any board you will get your bullies, but for the most part they are a group of passionate car guys who's depth &amp; breadth of knowledge is unmatched.

Ed, I'd have to agree - your cars have taken an unfair bashing over there! </div></div>


Boss did you read the threads on the cars? You think that is unfair bashing? WOW </div></div>

Not necessarily those posts Craig, but his cars in general have been picked and questioned to no end. He has a knack for finding nice original (often low mileage) cars that were built by men who often had a beer or two at lunch. Not everything is black &amp; white in our auto world.

I didn't come here to argue with you, it's just my opinion - you can share it or not.

Re: “Pontiac Performance Years” Brownshirts
 

several years ago,i was accused by several members of the PY board of being some guy called &quot;Jerry Bull&quot;.

this Bull guy came on the PY board impersonating a woman and basically made a fool out of a lot of people on that board,including some married guys.

i wish i was the guy.i am sure he is still laughing,as i was.

Re: “Pontiac Performance Years” Brownshirts
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: agtw31</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
this Bull guy came on the PY board impersonating a woman

</div></div>

Sure you're not confusing him with a moderator there?

Re: “Pontiac Performance Years” Brownshirts
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 442w30</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: agtw31</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
this Bull guy came on the PY board impersonating a woman

</div></div>

Sure you're not confusing him with a moderator there? </div></div>

Would that be blackcat?

Re: “Pontiac Performance Years” Brownshirts
 

Maybe . . . my tongue was in my cheek. Can't remember his/her name.

Re: “Pontiac Performance Years” Brownshirts
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: agtw31</div><div class="ubbcode-body">several years ago,i was accused by several members of the PY board of being some guy called &quot;Jerry Bull&quot;.

this Bull guy came on the PY board impersonating a woman and basically made a fool out of a lot of people on that board,including some married guys.

i wish i was the guy.i am sure he is still laughing,as I was.

</div></div>


Link please.......I would like to see this thread. I have been on PY for 10 years and 3000 posts and I missed this thread.

Re: “Pontiac Performance Years” Brownshirts
 

http://forums.performanceyears.com/f...21#post4366321

Wow - That was quite a brutal assault on Oldsmobile! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/frown.gif[/img]