Day 2 parts discussion
 

I'll get a thread started here to separate the Day 2 cars from the parts.

I ran into a friend and his Dad today at a car show. We started talking about the 62 Corvette I just bought and some of the little things that would make you believe the car was drag raced early on. One item that came up in discussion (that I never heard of) was early scattershields. My buddy's Father (Rick) spoke of scattershields that were actually bolted to the frame rails and just protected the drivers feet (top of the bellhousing if I understand it correctly)He also told me of a scattershield he had recieved from Chris (aka SIRVIVOR) that came from his 62 409 car.

Besides the traction bars on my car (matches the patina of the chassis), the car has 2ea. 5/8 bolts welded into the frame right in the proximity of the bellhousing.

Any pictures?
Thoughts?
Old catalogs?

This discussion has me interested. My car is missing the original transmission and center section (HMMMMMMMMMMMMM). Obviously, the car was abused. I am trying to put some of the clues together.

In advance, thanks for the time and effort.

Tim

Re: Day 2 parts discussion
 

I did find this on a Google search.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=312703

Anyone have one or at least good pics?

Tim

Re: Day 2 parts discussion
 

from a day 2 parts perspective, I have a chance to buy some 15 x 12 cragars to go on my challenger. They have mickey thompson indy profile n50s on them which match what used to be on the car.

Any guess on tire age?: dot code is CY6ETA35290

I read that the last digit is likely the year, but they could be 70 or 80 vintage, or even 90?

also, how do you really tell old cragars from newer ones? I am assuming the chrome plating back in the day was better than what you get today.

Re: Day 2 parts discussion
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: black69</div><div class="ubbcode-body">from a day 2 parts perspective, I have a chance to buy some 15 x 12 cragars to go on my challenger. They have mickey thompson indy profile n50s on them which match what used to be on the car.

Any guess on tire age?: dot code is CY6ETA35290

I read that the last digit is likely the year, but they could be 70 or 80 vintage, or even 90?

also, how do you really tell old cragars from newer ones? I am assuming the chrome plating back in the day was better than what you get today.



</div></div>

Post a pic as it's really hard to tell what you have. I can tell by the kickup in the lip and center section features. If the lug nut area is fog painted they are pre mid 1980's. All Cragar wheels before then were fog painted a very light silver in the lug nut pockets.

1. Cragar never made 15 x 12's unless special order and that was extremely rare as you had to order directly from Cragar and wait forever and it was very expensive. Most likely 15 x 10's and the seller is guestimating on the width or measuring outer lip to outer lip instead of in between the lips which would be hard since tires are on them.
2. Cragar chrome is 500 percent better today. It was pretty lousey back in the 60-80's. Crappy actually.

If the M/T have in white letters SS (soft compound)on the sidewall they are newer.
Hope this helps.

Re: Day 2 parts discussion
 

I have the wheels now, I just have to return them quick if I am not going to buy them.

the chrome is consistent in the lug area, and not toned down. there is light pitting in the back of the wheel, but the chrome on the front of the wheel is perfect for my day 2 ride. actually it looks awesome, just ever so light pitting starting on one spoke, and the hub cap has one pit starting. . they are 12 inch wide.

If I can date the tires, I can date the wheels, I am assuming both came to be at the same time. the s/s on the tires is white like you say (must be newer). picture comes tonight. I did call mickey thompson, and they said the are really old tires (could not decipher the old code), likely 80s or a 90 tire at best, but cant tell. they said as soon as I drive them, they will crack under load.

Re: Day 2 parts discussion
 

Attached are pics of a pair of NOS hubcaps I just picked up and the gentleman told me to the best of his memory they have been sitting in his shop for over 20 yrs, (look at the old box). As you can see these do not have the trade mark insignia in a small circle that all the newer cragar's seem to have, maybe this will help identifying the year.

Re: Day 2 parts discussion
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: black69</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have the wheels now, I just have to return them quick if I am not going to buy them.

the chrome is consistent in the lug area, and not toned down. there is light pitting in the back of the wheel, but the chrome on the front of the wheel is perfect for my day 2 ride. actually it looks awesome, just ever so light pitting starting on one spoke, and the hub cap has one pit starting. . they are 12 inch wide.

If I can date the tires, I can date the wheels, I am assuming both came to be at the same time. the s/s on the tires is white like you say (must be newer). picture comes tonight. I did call mickey thompson, and they said the are really old tires (could not decipher the old code), likely 80s or a 90 tire at best, but cant tell. they said as soon as I drive them, they will crack under load. </div></div>

The soft compound S/S series tires came out in the early 80's (still being made to this day)and they still made the real N50-15 regular rubber tires into the very early 90's then stopped. Instead of S/S they said 50. Legally they tell you they will crack but depends on how they were kept = plus they want to sell you new tires. I would not drive 500 miles to a show but crusing locally would probabaly be alright. I know a guy with a mid 70's set of N50's (Kelly Springfield) and they are still going strong and he drives the car to shows all over the place. I have 4 sets of N50 pro tracs from the same time period and they are still soft with no cracks or dry rot.

If there is no trace of silver paint in the lug nut pocket they are probably post mid 80's.

Re: Day 2 parts discussion
 

Nice score Jeff. Those look just beautiful. Do you have some Cragar SSs to put them on?

Re: Day 2 parts discussion
 

thanks, that helps on the decoding, I have the copyright circle on the caps. so I am leaning towards 1980/1990 vintage at this point, using the last number (0) in the dot tire code, and the copyright circle on the cap. I would think 65-70 would be the older wheel vintage period.

Re: Day 2 parts discussion
 

I've seen skinny Cragar wheels without the unilug dated as late as 1982. Yes, the chrome was not that great early on. Don't recall right now when it started being done in Mexico. Anyone have a set of them for a point of reference?

These wheels here i never dismounted, but suspect the caps were simply put on by a previous owner from a newer set.

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/w...n7/cfront1.jpg

I've also owned unilug wheels that were dated 1978, and they were 15x8. If I knew this, then I forgot it now, but when did the unilug start being offered? I know early ones had an aluminum insert. Have a few, just don't have a pic handy.

Those caps you posted seem to be great examples of the early generation. No &quot;R&quot; and the blue color is lighter (and not as consistent) as the later ones.

For a while, I was on an acquisition grabbing as many of those as I could. Lost count after 2 dozen. Despite what the part number reads, be careful of what you buy. I've had a few which did not like to fit the old wheels. Ended up splitting a few when I tightened the screw. My point being that they can be NOS for a reason- like poor fit.

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/w...xTx/cragar.jpg

Although you can't see the dates on the wheels when tires are mounted, I still like the sets I have dated form 1969 and older. I'll try to post a pic of dates tomorrow.

Re: Day 2 parts discussion
 

Cragar has had 3 versions of unilug wheels. The first was called varilug,1971-1972 ish, and used little aluminum rings behind the wheels but those were weak so they came out with thick 3/4&quot; thick adapter plates but these were a pita to keep centered behind the wheel when installing it. The &quot;one piece&quot; unilug we all know today came out in mid 70's around 1974.

Cragar was making Cragars in Mexico in the mid 70's. I have a set of NOS 15 x 10's stamped made in Mexico 1976 and the chrome is very nice but have a set of 14 x 6's nos made in USA in the early 80's and the chrome is good but not as good as the Mexico chrome.

Besides the generaly crappy chrome, early Cragars had alot of castings defects in the cast center sections and the rims also were not plated that well.

All speed parts are better made today as people are more picky and they have better casting technigues. Old intakes from Edelbrock and Weiand were horrendous in terms of casting defects if you ever compare them to todays versions

Re: Day 2 parts discussion
 

----Im curious as to weather the whole Crager wheel was made in Mexico or only the part you saw that was stamped &quot;made in Mexico&quot;???......Bill S

Re: Day 2 parts discussion
 

Figures you would have the in depth info. That is why you are an asset here. Welcome back!

Re: Day 2 parts discussion
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: olredalert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">----Im curious as to weather the whole Crager wheel was made in Mexico or only the part you saw that was stamped &quot;made in Mexico&quot;???......Bill S </div></div>

The whole wheel was made in Mexico. Cragar made them in both the US and Mexico. I have a bunch of nos Cragars and some of the boxes say made in Mexico and some made in USA. I don't necessarily think they made them in Mexico to save money as some of the wheels I have are made in the US after the Mexican ones. Maybe they used Mexico at the time to meet demand??


Chrome is also way different than early Cragars. New ones are more shinier/deep and use a
darker chrome if you compare them side by side. Early ones used a &quot;white&quot; hexevelant chrome which I believe has been banned in the US for some time but a version of hexevelant chrome is still available IIR. I can't remember the official name of the chrome they used so that term might be incorrect but it is no longer available in the US. White hexevelant chrome was an industrial chrome they used on sink fixtures and curtain rods etc.

I learned about white hexevelant chrome the hard way = $$$. Had Pauls Chrome and also Stockton wheel replate some wheels-the color comparison was like an Oreo cookie versus the nos wheels I had. The new replated chrome was shinier and better but it would have been noticable on the car if I used my NOS rears. If you have all four replated most people would not notice or not know there was a difference from the originals anyway

Re: Day 2 parts discussion
 

Good info whitetop! Much appreciated.

Re: Day 2 parts discussion
 

x2 on that whitetop.

Re: Day 2 parts discussion
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mockingbird812</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good info whitetop! Much appreciated. </div></div>

Valuable lesson learned. $800 plating fee from Pauls for 2 wheels( I wanted the best show chrome) $175 welding fee from Stockton and $60.00 shipping. Wheels returned from Stockton and I was happy with them. Couple years later placed them on a sunny day on my back deck along with mrecently acquired NOS 15 x 10 rears and it was Ohhh fudge....

http://cdn.buzznet.com/assets/users1...6170620051.jpg

Had another set replated by Stockton who said the chrome would be correct..it was not but more correct than Paul's but still off. Took my nos ones to Custom Chrome in Medina Oh and said&quot; Can you match this chrome?&quot; and the platers said &quot;yeah but I would have to send them out to a 3rd world country whose frogs have 3 eyes&quot; and he gave me a short lesson on banned chrome in the developed world

So disgusted ended up selling them to a guy dirt cheap and he had his used rears replated to match the fronts. I probably should have done the same thing but just didn't care anymore. Out of site out of mind.

Re: Day 2 parts discussion
 

[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/haha.gif[/img]

Re: Day 2 parts discussion
 

Arn't you guys glad Day-2 Dave is back? The man!

Re: Day 2 parts discussion
 

You ain't just a woofin' Sammy! The true el Presidente of all things Day-Two!

Re: Day 2 parts discussion
 

Lets work on Eddie. He can't keep all those cars as showroom. They never were meant for that! Don Yenko would be mad at him!

Re: Day 2 parts discussion
 

----Thanks Whitetop! Thats interesting stuff. What part of Ohio are you from? Im from Medina and dont remember Custom Chrome, but have been gone from that area for many years. Actually I dont remember any chrome platers from that area, but then at my age the memory does slip just a bit......Bill S

Re: Day 2 parts discussion
 

Thank you VERY much. Just this past weekend I was talking to a friend about older Cragars vs. the newer ones. I had no proof on my observations, now I have something to send him regarding this subject. Thank you again!!

Re: Day 2 parts discussion
 

Bill, Custom Chrome is on Rt. 57 in Grafton...Best platers around hands down!


Steve

Re: Day 2 parts discussion
 

whitetop, I bow in your general direction. Man you know your stuff. I had no idea there was the potential for different looking chrome out there. wow.
that really helped as one would think some nos wheels up front would blend with new wheels in back.

on a side note, for cragar lovers, cragar STILL will make custom offets for any SS wheel. If the 80s/90s 15x12's do not fit perfectly when I test fit them here soon, I will be on the path of a custom offet. Only $50 per wheel charge. new chrome.

Re: Day 2 parts discussion
 

Yes, they do custom offset. Be sure to specify that you want unilug centers. Maybe the 80/90 designation is enough. The non-unilug setup now takes traditional acorn lug nuts and ruin's the look I have grown to love.

Somthing about those mag wheel shouldered lugs with the chunky washers that just looks right, compared to the well and acorn lug sits in.

http://www.jegs.com/images/photos/200/260/260-61614.jpg

http://www.jegs.com/images/photos/20...-61C511242.jpg

Re: Day 2 parts discussion
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: black69</div><div class="ubbcode-body">whitetop, I bow in your general direction. Man you know your stuff. I had no idea there was the potential for different looking chrome out there. wow.
that really helped as one would think some nos wheels up front would blend with new wheels in back.

on a side note, for cragar lovers, cragar STILL will make custom offets for any SS wheel. If the 80s/90s 15x12's do not fit perfectly when I test fit them here soon, I will be on the path of a custom offet. Only $50 per wheel charge. new chrome.

</div></div>

Couple of years ago Cragar changed their wheel mold and went to a flat spoke on the SS. You can see it in this pic. Kinda looks like the old AMT model kits that had Cragars, that while called Cragars you knew they where not right. The originals had a curved spoke. Besides coloring the new ones are not even close to the originals. If yuo are a stickler for original, very good used and new ones with the curved spoke are still on the 'bay every so often but you have to be patient.

http://www.jegs.com/images/photos/200/260/260-08152.jpg

Here is an old set..you can see the curvature on the spokes. Of course 99 percent of the people out there don't know there is a difference and to be honest don't care.

http://cgi.ebay.com/set-vintage-Cragar-S...=item4cf950510e

Re: Day 2 parts discussion
 

Here is a good shot of an early nos Cragar with the fogged in painted lug nut pockets. All early pre mid 80's Cragars were this way. The new ones have a deep rich chrome in the lug nut pockets and too me look too blingey.

Some of the nos Cragars I have have more paint and some less less in the pockets.

http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/...ICS/5ac3_1.jpg

Re: Day 2 parts discussion
 

well its a bummer the mint wheels I test fitted are sticking out 1 inch past the lip. I wanted it to stop at the lip. time for a custom offset.
http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/o...9/DSC08409.jpg

Re: Day 2 parts discussion
 

well they do NOT look bad!

Re: Day 2 parts discussion
 

Ain't that what air shocks are for? It'll give you that wide-track ride! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/3gears.gif[/img] Can't let the Poncho guys have all of the fun! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Day 2 parts discussion
 

she still has the air shocks (74? vintage)

http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/o...9/DSC08378.jpg

here is the '1 inch too far pic'

http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/o...9/DSC08404.jpg

kevn suydam has a good example of how I want the car to end up looking in the back.

http://corvettes-musclecars.com/gall...+Cuda.jpg.html

Re: Day 2 parts discussion
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: black69</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

here is the '1 inch too far pic'

http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/o...9/DSC08404.jpg



</div></div>

I actually think it looks nice.

I still think you have 10&quot; rims. M/T N50's tread width are about 11 3/4-12&quot; wide give or take. If the rims were 12's the rim would be ballooning out past the sidewall/tread because the outside lip would be about 14&quot; wide and it appears not to be doing so in your pic.

The rims outside edge appears to be equal or slightly less of the tire tread of 12 inches. You also do not have much negative (reverse) deep dish offset. If those were 12's your tires would be way into the rear leaf springs and most likely would have needed a shock relocation kit.

I have 10's on my car with N50's and they have the same exact look as yours. My 10's measure 12' outside lip to outside lip.

Cool Monroe shocks-def 70's vintage.

Re: Day 2 parts discussion
 

Leave it IMO.

Re: Day 2 parts discussion
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: [email protected]</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Leave it IMO. </div></div>

Yep, and the tires look fine to use.

Re: Day 2 parts discussion
 

I agree that the look on the car Suydam has is very tasteful.

http://corvettes-musclecars.com/gall.../Hemi+Cuda.jpg

http://corvettes-musclecars.com/gall...1/scan0001.jpg

I actually am a fan of the Mopar look when you move the spring pearch inboard, run a real fat tire and keep it within the wheel well.

I think my wife's 1971 Duster had a 10&quot; wide wheel in the stock wheel house. Ran a set of N50's and it was tight. Later went to the 295/50.

You can't go wrong with having another set of mag wheels for your car. I say get a set with the inboad off-set you want and hang onto these too!

Re: Day 2 parts discussion
 

As Bad-Ass &amp; Tuff as a fat-tire'd Challenger looks (I like it!), those tires will just throw up so many small rocks and other debris that you won't believe how bad the lower quarters will get peppered with paint chips back there. Especially with tires that have a little softer compounds. Just a little FYI.

Re: Day 2 parts discussion
 

thanks for the compliments, guys
the car did come back to life, when I put those monsters on it. It spent most of its life that way.
When I slipped the stock G60's back on, it was like I felt like I did the car a dis-service.

long live d2. or d3 for that matter.

white top, oh cragar jedi master, the wheels measure out rim to rim 11.5-12&quot;. u too suspicious, say grasshopper [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Day 2 parts discussion
 

My hemi Charger with its original set of 1970 Cragars that the original owner put on back in January of 1970.
They are 15x4 front and 15x7 rears with the original 1972 Parnelli Jones L60x15s (hard as hockey pucks now). [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img]

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...ragars11-1.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...gars1111-1.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...cragars1-1.jpg



Instead of replating them I just blacked out the flakey lug area with some carefully masked barbeque-black spray paint. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img]

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...rgars111-1.jpg

Re: Day 2 parts discussion
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: black69</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

white top, oh cragar jedi master, the wheels measure out rim to rim 11.5-12&quot;. u too suspicious, say grasshopper [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif[/img]



</div></div>

Did you take a tire off the rim and measure it? If you never took off the tire it is very difficult to get a true rim measurement.

Here is a 10&quot; rim and the outside lip of the rim is 11&quot;. Your tread width is 12&quot; + or - so your outside rim should be 13&quot; outer lip to outer lip based upon mine being 11&quot; but in the side picture the outside rim outer lip looks further in than the tread width but then again I never did do well in physics so that might explain it [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif[/img]

http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/...S/IMG_2153.jpg