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ZL1 @ $410,000.00
It looked like the car below but I never heard "rebody" or EXTENSIVE creative sheet metal replacement during/before bidding. I did see the (very) small print under one of the photos on the poster board. This is great news for clone and rebody owners.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...n_DSCF2908.jpg |
Re: ZL1 @ $410,000.00
There you go Chris with that big wooden spoon to stir the pot.
I just have a hard time with spending that kind of money on a car with a VIN swap with that whole Federal law breaking. To be honest if there was some sort of way to get the Feds involved with the process and get it doccumente as legal I might be okay with it. I don't know where I would draw the line on sheetmetal repair then. |
Re: ZL1 @ $410,000.00
I'd be willing to bet, everyone who bid on the car knew how the car was restored, and didn't care. They didn't throw cash like that around without reading all the "small print"
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Re: ZL1 @ $410,000.00
Scroll down to watch it go across the block,and see the winning bidder on camera at the end.
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/01/21/b...et-camaro-zl1/ |
Re: ZL1 @ $410,000.00
I dont think were suppposed to talk about this car or your posts will be deleted, right Steve????
Brian |
Re: ZL1 @ $410,000.00
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Re: ZL1 @ $410,000.00
I'm waiting for the new proud owner and his first post on this web site, " Hi all. Just wanted to stop by and say hi. I own ZL1 #9"
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Re: ZL1 @ $410,000.00
I heard the auctioneers describe the car as being restored using NOS parts and a complete GM body shell on the Speed Channel broadcast. it was hard to hear any other details as the Speed crew were talking about ZL-1s and you had to listen around them. Sounds like George was true to his word about making sure the car was accurately described. Kudos to him.
To me the price achieved is far below what the car would have received if it wasn't a rebody and reflects good information about this particular car being available in the marketplace. |
Re: ZL1 @ $410,000.00
Hopefully the buyer's the same guy who just scored the '70 Coronet 6-Pack/'71 Hemi GTX deal and all works out in the wash?.
Regardless of $ reached or actual value, I'm disappointed w/ the way things went specifically the presentation/phrases used in the supposed rebody disclosure.. Although the recent threads here went awry I was still holding on to the strong words about how this car's issue would be dealt with but now feel somehow duped after what seems the complete opposite has actually taken place?. Who is the author of this below description that accompanies the above footage of this car rolling through the BJ auction anyway?. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif[/img] ~ Pete PS - For about the same dough here today a fella could have put Kim's Gibb/Harrell Camaro AND Red Alert in the garage!!! ------------------------------------------------------- "... Summary: Outstanding total restoration of one of the rare factory ZL1 '69 Camaros. Very well documented including owner history from new and a very positive Cuneen Report. Recent service and detail to be as new and surely one of the best in existence. Details: An outstanding example of one of the original COPO ZL1 aluminum block 427 Camaros, this particular car is #9 of the total production run of 69 cars produced. This car is very well documented from its original delivery to Fred Gibb Chevrolet of LaHarpe, Illinois, the dealer that spearheaded the original concept of an all-aluminum motor ZL1 Camaro.Included with this car is an amazing collection of historical documentation including the Dealers Shippers copy of the original window sticker, the customer copy of the original bill of sale, a copy of the Chevrolet MSO and much more. Having been through a very expensive, cost-no-object restoration, this particular ZL1 Camaro is "one of the finest in existence", exactly as it states in the accompanying Cuneen report by Ed Cuneen of COPO Connection. Only the highest quality components were used in this restoration with a strong emphasis on New Old Stock pieces instead of more readily available reproduction items. A GM factory assembled body shell was used to correct the extensive body modifications performed during this cars long term drag race history. Look beyond the show-quality paint, beautifully-fitted body and flawless-trim to see one of the most top notch Camaro restorations in the world. The workmanship employed to complete this car is the best you will find and the direction to recapture assembly line correct details is evident throughout the entire car, in particular with engine compartment and chassis assemblies. The Cuneen Report that is included with this car features extensive photography and a certification of numbered and coded components. While this car has been driven only a few miles since completion, it has been mechanically sorted and performs flawlessly with no issues needing attention. Offered here today by collector George Lyons of Erie, Pennsylvania, this 1969 ZL1 Camaro is stunning, highly documented, correctly restored example from this historic run of just 69 cars..." |
Re: ZL1 @ $410,000.00
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeff Murphy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I heard the auctioneers describe the car as being restored using NOS parts and a complete GM body shell on the Speed Channel broadcast. it was hard to hear any other details as the Speed crew were talking about ZL-1s and you had to listen around them. Sounds like George was true to his word about making sure the car was accurately described. Kudos to him.
To me the price achieved is far below what the car would have received if it wasn't a rebody and reflects good information about this particular car being available in the marketplace. </div></div> Amen Jeff! |
Re: ZL1 @ $410,000.00
I heard the same thing. I recorded the days of coverage and re-watched that segment and though hard to hear, due to the guys talking on TV coverage, it sounded like the car was accurately described.I would think all those interested in the car would have heard the info loud and clear.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeff Murphy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I heard the auctioneers describe the car as being restored using NOS parts and a complete GM body shell on the Speed Channel broadcast. it was hard to hear any other details as the Speed crew were talking about ZL-1s and you had to listen around them. Sounds like George was true to his word about making sure the car was accurately described. Kudos to him. To me the price achieved is far below what the car would have received if it wasn't a rebody and reflects good information about this particular car being available in the marketplace. </div></div> |
Re: ZL1 @ $410,000.00
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pxtx</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There you go Chris with that big wooden spoon to stir the pot.
I just have a hard time with spending that kind of money on a car with a VIN swap with that whole Federal law breaking. To be honest if there was some sort of way to get the Feds involved with the process and get it doccumente as legal I might be okay with it. I don't know where I would draw the line on sheetmetal repair then. </div></div> Exactly. The significance of swapping a VIN from a wrecked body to another is an elephant in the room. As far as the rebody description being clearly read by the BJ announcers, I could not hear that on TV due to the SPEED channel commentators talking over him. (I replayed it several times) Usually if there is a problem with a side view mirror screw or a trunk sticker put on crooked, Steve Magnante would mention it, as he would wrong color, multiple repaints, incorrect engine, etc. I guess he didn't get the memo on this car. If the seller was as honest as he could be and met his obligation to be truthful then all is well. Forget I mentioned it. Putting away the spoon now.... [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif[/img] |
Re: ZL1 @ $410,000.00
I thought the 410k price was very low for a ZL-1. Now i know why.
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Re: ZL1 @ $410,000.00
Watching at home, I recorded it and have the ability to mute of the sounds of the speed guys and just listen to the sound track coming from the block. The guys at BJ did mention that a GM shell was used in the restoration. I then reversed the process and muted out the sound track coming from the block and just focused on what Speed said about the car and they completely missed that. Too bad it would of made for some interesting comments........
With the full disclosure of what it really is, I would say that was some strong money for that car. I have been out of the loop for awhile and when I saw the price for the car I could not figure out why it was so slow which caused me to spend 30 minutes or so rewinding and making the sound adjustments. The car was on the block for nearly 10 minutes. This morning I logged into the site for the first time in a while and saw the previous threads about it.......should of checked here first.... |
Re: ZL1 @ $410,000.00
I feel that the car was not accurately described with a full disclosure that is not left or open to interpretation. The first sentence of the following statement is easily understood "Only the highest quality components were used in this restoration with a strong emphasis on New Old Stock pieces instead of more readily available reproduction items". However, this statement is being deceiving at least in my opinion "A GM factory assembled body shell was used to correct the extensive body modifications performed during this cars long term drag race history". This doesn't factually state that the car was re-bodied just implies a GM shell was used to correct the damage / modifications done to the car over the years. This meaning to me that a GM body was used as donor parts car, i.e. floors, rails or trunk floor, etc.
It should have read " Another complete GM body was used to restore this vehicle instead of repairing the original body because of the extensive body modification done during its race history. |
Re: ZL1 @ $410,000.00
replacing ((some metal)) is typical but moving tags that another conversation
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Re: ZL1 @ $410,000.00
How did they deal with the two hidden VINs on the firewall?
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Re: ZL1 @ $410,000.00
More than likely the old firewall was incorporated into the new shell so the hidden vins would be there as well as the trim tag not having to be removed so they would be acting in accordance with the law would be my opinion.
Remember the 69 RG Z28 RS that was sold to Ron Pratt a few years ago that was claimed to be an original car and was later revealed the trim tag from the original car was removed and replaced on a donor body? The real Z was wrecked and buried but someone removed the tag and sold it to the restorer who then tried to pass it off as a real car that BJ sold for 135k approximately....how do guys feel that this is any different? This ZL1 had plenty of paperwork proving that at one time the car was real, albeit the firewall but it appears that the large majority of this ZL1 was NOS... Thoughts? |
Re: ZL1 @ $410,000.00
Hi Tom...I guess my thoughts are that George let the prospective buyers know exactly what the car was...it was clearly stated on the board that was in front of the car.
Knowing George, he would have also discussed what he found out about the car AFTER he bought it....which was somehow missing info from the person he bought it from. After all...George didn't do the VIN swap. If people want to raise a stink, then go after the person who did the swap, not George. What I find even more amazing is the BS that people pull without disclosure. Remember the Silver Deuce that had the VIN's switched and the hidden VIN on the cowl welded in? There was no disclosure on that...and it only came to light when some discovered the switch. Then folks disassociated themselves from the person responsible. George sold his car with full disclosure of what it was...can that be said about most? |
Re: ZL1 @ $410,000.00
the 65 mustang gt 350 barn car was definitely messed with. The motor has a fresh coat of paint on the motor. So much for the story book?
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Re: ZL1 @ $410,000.00
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mr 707</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the 65 mustang gt 350 barn car was definitely messed with. The motor has a fresh coat of paint on the motor. So much for the story book? </div></div>
I'm pretty sure that tha announcers said the guy pulled the engine a lot of years ago to rebuild it. He never got around to it until just recentley. The engine was rebuilt, re-installed in the car, then sold. So it was reported the engine was the only thing fresh on the car. |
Re: ZL1 @ $410,000.00
The motor was rebuilt by the original owner and I am sure it will scream. I used to look at that car in the back of the shop when the original owner had it up in Fresno California back in the 80s. Whom ever bought that 65 Shelby paid good money for a great car that allot of people wanted and knew about in the area. There was a boss 429 Mustang with 9000 miles that was stored in the same shop for years also.
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Re: ZL1 @ $410,000.00
The more this thread progresses the more disappointed I feel..
Along with that, the more Chris' statement about this sale being great news for clone and rebody owners rings true!. Regardless of his returning here or not, I'm disappointed in myself for believing the owner's surprised realization of the truth about his car and how he was deceived when buying it also his words about how he was going to proceed as a seller himself as all genuine.. More foolishness on my part, I also believed many on this site who know better could admit the truth about this car being the rebody it is has not been made clear with the presentation and clever statements that bring more questions to mind than clarify anything.. The verbal description of the car when it crossed the block seems like the text posted previously so if this is what was being used as reference is probably none other than exactly what has been forwarded by the seller also approved by the auction company for release?. Not specific to this sale but it's statements such as this that would mean the most in court if ever necessary later with any sale so not surprising how they have little clarity and are bantered about also whatever lives online post auction is modified at a later date or even scuttled completely.. Hidden facts need a reason to be hidden or they'd just be facts!. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif[/img] ~ Pete |
Re: ZL1 @ $410,000.00
The car was disclosed as a rebody by the announcers right BEFORE the bidding and was also disclosed on the display board right in front of the car <span style="font-weight: bold">ALL WEEK</span>. In addition to that, the car was disclosed as a rebody ONLINE here on this site and I am sure on the Camaro site as well MONTHS before this auction even took place. How much more friggen disclosure of a certain fact do you want before you are satisfied? If they buyer didn't know it was a rebody after ALL THAT then its on him (the buyer)... <span style="font-weight: bold">NOT</span> the seller.
-Matt |
Re: ZL1 @ $410,000.00
Good quote, right on the money in my opinion.
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Re: ZL1 @ $410,000.00
It doesnt matter how big or small it was displayed on the board, I think if you are going to spend that kind of money you should read everything written including between the lines.
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Re: ZL1 @ $410,000.00
Matt,
You South Jersey guys sure have a way with words! JB |
Re: ZL1 @ $410,000.00
I think you will find that the high bidder knew what he was buying ....
and the final price was $410,000 PLUS THE BUYER'S FEE..... ..... so what does that come to? [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif[/img] |
Re: ZL1 @ $410,000.00
$451,000.00
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Re: ZL1 @ $410,000.00
At least 41K on the buyers side not including the sellers side....so that put the purchase price at 451K......I agree with John, while it's obvious that the decision was made to phrase and display it in a way that was not so obvious to a newbie per say but let's face it, it was disclosed. We all could read between the lines and know what that means. Not too many people who are new to this are going to jump into a ZL1 without knowing anything about it. You aren't going to plop that type of money done without doing any research unless you are a fool, and, as the saying goes.... you and your money will be soon parted. The average Joe is not going to get into something like this without doing his research. The information was available to make the choice..... and someone chose to pay 451K for this one.
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Re: ZL1 @ $410,000.00
I agree that George did everything needed to disclose the history of the car. The last thread was closed down and if this keeps up, I'd guess this one will be as well. As others have said, any interested buyer would <span style="text-decoration: underline">KNOW</span> what he would be bidding on. As for the guy who bought a bidders pass and decided to bid on it because his girlfriend said, "I like <span style="text-decoration: underline">that</span> one!", he is entitled to part with his money based on other concerns than the history of the car.
What the friggin H-ll do you all want from George???? Should he have stood up in front of the car and yelled, "This is a Re-Body! Don't bid on it if you want a REAL one!!!!!"????????????? I'm beginning to think that's the ONLY thing that would make some of you happy. Let it GO guys! It took at least 2 people to bring the price where it went. Were they BOTH fools or did they know what they were bidding on????? Verne [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/headbang.gif[/img] |
Re: ZL1 @ $410,000.00
I agree ... Time to move on boys . KP
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Re: ZL1 @ $410,000.00
From now on.... everybody that sells a rebodied car should spray paint in big letters R-E-B-O-D-Y on the side of the car to make everybody happy. Of course those people would need C-R-Y-B-A-B-Y tatooed across their forehead....
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Re: ZL1 @ $410,000.00
No one pays 400K for a plain Jane looking camaro. Even though the car looked fantastic no fool is paying 400 K for that car unless its rare, period. And you all know it was bought for less money than most ZL1's are worth, so the results were fair as could be. Some of you guys really are ridiculous and not professional with your comments towards George. The bidders new exactly what the car was.
As far as the DMV reg's and rules, that to me lies with the person doing the rebody. |
Re: ZL1 @ $410,000.00
Some of you guys really are ridiculous and not professional with your comments towards George. The bidders new exactly what the car was.
Could not agree more. [/quote] |
Re: ZL1 @ $410,000.00
Could it be that "we are starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel"?
Are the really rare cars being so sought after that the prices are starting to go back up? When they do... do you think the z/28's and SS cars will go up first.... or will the very limited cars be the first to start rising? [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif[/img] .................. This car had great documentation... Good for George. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img] |
Re: ZL1 @ $410,000.00
Gee sounds like i have said this before and my POST gets pulled and LOCKED UP. You people amaze me. Congrats to George and Barrett Jackson. Think it is time to move on...
The "MOF" |
Re: ZL1 @ $410,000.00
i didnt hear any comments to that effect. they said fresh barn car.Then 1 announcer said it look like the engine was just painted. I mean i dont care but????
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Re: ZL1 @ $410,000.00
I asked before, but besides the VIN plate, is there a single part on this "ZL-1" that is from the original car ?
In my opinion, if nothing is original besides the VIN, this car went for way too much money. Maybe I'm still living in the past or because I don't have a money tree in the back yard.... |
Re: ZL1 @ $410,000.00
Why not ask George privately through a PM or an email?. It would seem that he should be the best person to answer your question with the most accuracy.
Asking that question on a public forum is like asking the public if JFK's assassination was a conspiracy. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/sick.gif[/img] |
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