1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

Any thoughts or known history on this car as to authenticity and REAL #'s matching? Have never seen a deluxe interior car without a console. With two big options like L89 and JL8 I want to be sure before I consider this car. All comments are very much appreciated.

L89 at Mecum Kissimmee Auction

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

Not sure how rare but my 68 z is deluxe interior without a console. I would check over on camaros.org & see if it's in their database, but you'll probably need the vin if no one recognizes the car..

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

The 1,500 mile black RSZ also has a deluxe interior with no console, stripe delete too. I would like to see the paperwork on this L89, killer car if real.

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

If this car is real the sell number is going to be large!
With nothing more than beauty shots little if anything can be determined from the photos... call a competent person to look it and the ORIGINAL paperwork over with a fine tooth comb.

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

124379N690139
Nice, but all the docs are fake. JL8 wasn't available by then.
Haven't seen a tag pic.
http://www.autotraderclassics.com/classi...sationId=249425

Same as always: always question a black car.

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

"Same as always: always question a black car".....Or an L89.

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

" Its impressive factory documentation includes the Protect-O-Plate, broadcast sheet, invoice sheet, window sticker, delivery check list and owner's manual."

I would call that fraud if all the docs are fake.

Unlike most of the fake docs, this one has a real person and a real address. Most seem to be non-existent addresses that cannot be traced.

Coounty records of the property here: http://www.pcpao.org/?pg=http://www....33699481003105

Kenneth Wright did live at the address on the docs, or at least he owned it. He died in 2009, and case was probated. So, it is possible that he was the original owner of the car and that the current owner purchased it from the estate.

Summary of probate docs here: https://ccmspa.pinellascounty.org/Pu...CaseID=1837513

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

What is it with l89's and fake docs. Its giving these cars a bad name.

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

I wonder what Dana mecum will have to say about this revelation!

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

I figured it was the same one with all the fake docs that was in Florida however without concrete proof I didn't want to tarnish someone else's car. I thought the auctions were trying to police themselves a little better. Then again I guess that is why none of the fake docs are shown on the auction sites.

I have customers who call me with this car and that car asking if it is real, so much time is wasted messing with a bunch of crap that is so wrong I laugh when I actually take a look at them. It irritates me that people want you to spend time and money to come look at fake docs in person when I could eliminate the vehicle from my clients scope by merely seeing the docs. Then again some people would rather have an incorrect aged window sticker than to admit they don't have one. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: weranc55</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is it with l89's and fake docs. Its giving these cars a bad name. </div></div>

No it doesn't give any car a bad name, it does however give the crooks creating these cars bad names, and it will eventually catch up to them.

This does however reiterate a GREAT POINT made by many before me...
IF YOU ARE NOT AN EXPERT AND CANNOT AFFORD TO LOSE THE MONEY THEN HIRE A REPUTABLE ONE.

ANOTHER I LIKE IS IF YOU CAN NOT DETERMINE WHO IS THE SUCKER IN A DEAL THAT IS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE... LOOK IN THE MIRROR.

Fake Paperwork is extremely difficult to get perfect...

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

&quot;so much time is wasted messing with a bunch of crap&quot;.....My sentiments exactly. I stopped looking for one for that exact reason.

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: the427king</div><div class="ubbcode-body">&quot;so much time is wasted messing with a bunch of crap&quot;.....My sentiments exactly. I stopped looking for one for that exact reason. </div></div>

Thank God BWAG took pics of my 69 the night it was delivered to his dealership. A real L89 Camaro that has never been apart. Now, if he only kept the engine when they yanked it for a Booth-Arons L72!

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r...th_image-9.jpg

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

Didn't know GMAC finance was even around in 69, LOL

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

They were. I paid the payments on my new 69 428 Catalina at the local G-mac office.

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

I wonder why there are so many fake/questionable cars that allegedly originate from Florida? Couldn't have anything to do with the fact that much of the fake paperwork originates from a certain scumbag in Florida, could it?

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

that certain scum bag has been faking paperwork- protecto plate- booklets- window stickers for along time ((80s )) There isnt a protecto plate i trust because i know they found hundreds of original(( booklets)) in boxes in out of business chevy dealships. When the prices of corvettes(( 1967 435s) when to 100k in the late 80s thats when this problem came to the hobby.

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

1. paperwork, 2. Ownership history, 3. Certifications......I wonder how far back the ownership history (with good phone numbers) goes on the subject car?

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

Well, he claims to have purchased from the original owner. That first owner would have to be the name on the POP, Kenneth Wright.

<span style="font-weight: bold">From the AutoTrader ad:</span>
Since restoration of the entire car, it has been driven less than 10 miles. Mileage at purchase of car was 33,700 (exempt on Florida new title) <span style="font-weight: bold">I am the restorer and second owner.</span> This one has all the correct nuts and bolts and has passed the test of all scrutiny. Search till your heart's content, you will not find another one like it. Jack O'Donnell Contact me by phone only 352-610-4136

Would like to know who did the docs for him.

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

Well hells bells! Now I see the problem with this car. One of the guys working on it is wearing a furd shirt.

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

Looks like that address is now a Boat storage facility....

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

The AutoNation Chevy store is at that same address. A friend of mine was the aftermarket sales manager there and I was in the building 5 years ago. AutoNation bought up a lot of dealerships in the early 2000s.

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kwhizz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks like that address is now a Boat storage facility.... </div></div>

You are correct.

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

Also find it funny that the last vin out the door in September was 692602 and yet this vin (690139) was ORDERED on October 28. Quite a trick.

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

Typical of L89 cars.......

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

Odd stuff with dates. 6 months after JL8 was available. I am going to auction tomorrow. Should have left yesterday. Minus 10 wind chill appeared again

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

I can't speak for the car but I can speak for the lore surronding the owner,
&quot;Kenny Wright&quot; who stunk &amp; didn't bathe according to a local restorer.
The local restorer was chasing after the hoarding nutcase to shake out three rusted projects that had been sitting out in the front yard for 40yds. In fact, as the story goes, the restorer cuts a deal with Kenny all agreed, &amp; before the restorer could return with the cash, Kenny had taken a note to the restorer's local shop fence, &quot;Sorry changed my mind&quot;. So no cars ever for the restorer but the case for this guy Kenny having a number of intersting big block cars (that he bought on time, new from the local Jim Quinliin Chevrolet in Clearwater, FL) is strong. Eventually Kenny up &amp; died &amp; the girlfriend sold off the cars, maybe 5 years ago. A buyer up in the Brooksville, FL area secures a few of the really good ones. The black JL8/L-89 car was one of them. I've seen the car final fininshed for Mecum at the SAME restorer's shop who missed out on the three cars out in the front yard years ago (two were a butternut camaro 68 L-35 car &amp; a 1970 big block camaro)I've also seen copies of the orginal Jim Quinlinn docs (in the resto shop with the car) &amp; they all show matching Kenny Wright signature's that are impressive, regardless. The dealer invoice in particular is impressive in authenticy &amp; looks legit. Interestingly enough I ran across the location of a small block Z street legend, by chance, snooping around &amp; asking questions. So I located his house &amp; the not running 1968 Camaro tunnel rammed rocket was still in the garage. I once vistied the car/owner 32 years ago &amp; what a bizarre step back in time this was....... I saw the car in its' then prime when the then feared 35 YO owner was crisp &amp; ready to throw it down on the street. I eventually questioned him about Kenny Wright (after talking at length about his car &amp; parts) &amp; he said, &quot;Yep I knew Kenny, he had all big block camaros over there; I was the small block king, but we never raced&quot;.

So the restorer accounts for the original owner &amp; his front yard cars, not knowing off what was out back. There were more cars out back &amp; the buyer of the black JL8/L-89 car was reported as hopping the back fence to get a look under the hood of the non running/tarped car super car. After lifting the ajar hood &amp; seeing the AL heads,the buyer quickly closed the hood, hopped back over the fence, rushed back out front to close the deal before the others showed up with their money/offers. It was that hot a local car topic at eventual go time. People had been hounding Kenny non-stop for years. He might have been been a stinking idiot who didn't take a bath &amp; let his cars go, but, the guy had plenty of insight to order the cars he did (buying them on time),putting them up, knowing all along he really had something special.
Then the grilfriend went on took the money &amp; run.......

And that's all I know:)

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

1. How about filling out a profile with a real name?
You can look at mine. Anonymously coming on a forum and &quot;vouching&quot; for the validity of a car is questionable at best.
2. How would you know that the &quot;copies of the orginal Jim Quinlinn docs (in the resto shop with the car) &amp; they all show matching Kenny Wright signature's that are impressive, regardless. The dealer invoice in particular is impressive in authenticy &amp; looks legit.&quot;??? What were you comparing them to? Yes they look legit to the untrained eye.

3. Can you explain how a car that had already rolled off the line in Sept was <span style="font-weight: bold">ordered</span> on Oct. 28?

4. By the &quot;restorer&quot; you mean Edward J. O'Donnell?

5. Girlfriend's name? BTW just being someone's girlfriend doesn't entitle you to sell the car. Are you talking about Cindy? It also doesn't jive with Mr. O'Donnell's story that he bought the car from the original owner.

I am calling BS until I see a copy of the signed title from Kenneth Wright to Edward J. O'Donnell. Seriously, if I had purchased a one owner L89, I damn sure would have run a copy of the title before turning it in for transfer to my name. Anyone who didn't do that would be a fool.
If the car has been in Florida since new, it should be easy to trace the title.

The facts (so far):

1. This car did not come with JL8, not if it was ordered on Oct 28, long after the JL8 option was discontinued.
2. This car rolled out of the factory in Sept., but was somehow special ordered Oct 28.
3. This car did not come with the ducted hood or there would be a hole above the fuse block hole.
4. This car did not come with a tach, as it clearly does not have the gauge package, and without the other gauges, it would have a smaller (17/32) hole below the fuse block for the tach wire.
5. This car did not come with a rear spoiler. Pictures in progress clearly show a hole in the RR quarter for rear antennae, something that was not available with rear spoiler.

Would like to see a clear pic of the engine stamp, partial vin stamps on the engine and trans, and the trim tag.

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

hey dblclutchkid,


R U da guy wit da hemi in da river?? or da ZL-1 tow truck??
....or U da guy dat was gonna take 40 bikers and go buy dat der Yenko Camaro?


seriously, I'm just kidding... I hope the story is all true !!! Would be an awesome car !!!

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

The Blacked out tail panel is a nice touch. Must be for real L89 Cars only.

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

124379N690139
If the auction house pays no heed to whether a car's real or a fraud job, who and how do they come up w/ these auction estimates...195,000-225,000 in this case?
Previous thread...
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/550874/Re:_This_one's_got_it_ALL!
The stinky guy story was cool, sounds like Kenny was a real car guy!
[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img]
~ Pete

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

Doesn't change that the docs for the car aren't real..........

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

I looked the car over today and saw copies of the docs. Build sheet looks perfect, no torn edges, nothing missing. No spring marks either. I saw the block stamping and the vin is by the filter. I have seen several stamping in the past and here. Other cars here I used my phone for a picture and blew it up so you could read the stamp. This car was the clearest vin stamp I have seen in this location and I didn't have to blow the picture up.

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

the mecum discription says it also has the window sticker????

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Billohio</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I looked the car over today and saw copies of the docs. Build sheet looks perfect, no torn edges, nothing missing. No spring marks either. I saw the block stamping and the vin is by the filter. I have seen several stamping in the past and here. Other cars here I used my phone for a picture and blew it up so you could read the stamp. This car was the clearest vin stamp I have seen in this location and I didn't have to blow the picture up. </div></div>

Bill: Can you get (and post) a clear pic of the trim tag?

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Billohio</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I looked the car over today and saw copies of the docs. Build sheet looks perfect, no torn edges, nothing missing. No spring marks either. I saw the block stamping and the vin is by the filter. I have seen several stamping in the past and here. Other cars here I used my phone for a picture and blew it up so you could read the stamp. This car was the clearest vin stamp I have seen in this location and I didn't have to blow the picture up. </div></div>


I'm not saying this is the case with this Camaro, but FYI.

I inspected and researched a proposed 1969 L89 Camaro a while back. Turns out that the Camaro was a real and more popular L78, which was decked, properly rebroached and stamped with the original date, but for the L89 code and of course the correct date coded aluminum heads were added. So everything lined up, parts, patina date codes and originality, including the original engine with the original VIN stamp.

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

Similar to the supposed L89 that was originally an X11 taged small block and the original trim tag was modified to X66. It was done so well it was impossible to tell.

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

And the tag:

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

Nice... [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/no.gif[/img]

Re: 1969 Camaro L89 with JL8 option at Kissimmee
 

Amazing, all the trouble they went through to fake this car, &quot;original (deceased) owner&quot; window sticker, trim tag and they FORGOT to put the D80 on the tag. I am guessing the spoiler option is shown on the build sheet. I haven't seen a copy of the build sheet. Spoilers are shown on the aged window sticker as well as the order:

HEY: dblclutchkid, are you as impressed with the trim tag as you are that &quot;original&quot; dealer paperwork.