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Motion Nova ???????
Hello all, I am a newbie here but a car guy for the last 40 years....I have owned about everything you can imagine and have personally restored hundreds of car for myself and other people... enough about me, but I wanted to at least introduce myself before touching on this very controversial subject...
Recently my cell phone rang and it was a person that I have know for a while, he offered up for sale to me a car that was well know to a lot of you guys and has been all over the internet car blogs for over 10 years... I will tell you all out front it was more about helping a person in desperate need than buying the car.... I had no interest in the car and recently sold off my last muscle car and was taking a break from them... After a lot of drama and poor weather the vehicle showed up at my shop, keep in mind like all of you I had never seen pictures of the 1968 Nova or any of the paperwork. Well I have it now and have had some time to go thru the research and paperwork and the car...I have talked to several people who are thought to be associated with the car over the years. in my opinion it is still a maybe car...here's why!!!!! THE LETTER dated 2003 is definitely a maybe letter, the person who signed the letter(from my recent conversation) is an exceptionally nice person that loves to discuss his life and his hobbies and careers, he will not discuss this car or the person that was associated with the car for all those years. It seems that story is pretty intense and one that is best not discussed...As a matter of fact he is the person that recommended this site to me... THE PEOPLE that were associated with this car in its prior years are older gentlemen and they have memories of the car but some of these memories are definitely clouded by the 45 years that has come and gone since this car was built... THE RESEARCH that was done is detailed but not put together very well and some is very confusing at best... THE CAR is a body with some of the accessories that were said to be associated with the cars that were converted and or built by Motion Performance in that time frame, there are key pieces of it missing, the engine and transmission are not present now...There is among some of the paperwork an original build sheet that does confirm the cars original as built by GM configuration... The FUTURE of the car for now is a trip to the eBay site with a reasonable reserve on the car so I may accomplish my goals: 1. Get my original investment back on the car. 2. Put the car in someone's hands to complete the research & restore it, and once and for all put the subject to rest, it is a very time consuming process that I just don't have the time to complete since I have a business to run that takes a considerable amount of my time up... My intent is not to open old wounds and or bring up people or sore subjects that may offend anyone....but after doing some quick internet searches I ran into the original string on this site and a lot of you in my opinion were left hanging with no closure, I don't know that I have offered up any closure, but more the next chapter of a story in a car drama that may never be solved for sure.... Mike https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics..._full_size.jpg |
Re: Motion Nova ???????
Sorry, I'm not following... You bought a car with a story, and plan to resell it, so posted this pic in the hopes of....?? [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif[/img] Not sure I remember this particular car, maybe give us a little more info or a link to a prior thread?
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Re: Motion Nova ???????
The discussion of this car was on this site and many other sites and there was a lot of conversation about it... "motion nova ????" was the post here, the pervious owner had a lot of ties to this site and others that talked about the first 1968 nova done by motion performance, it was thought by many people to be this car. The maybe letter was to my knowledge the first and only one every done on a motion car....
I am not in any way advertising this car for sale or offering it up for sale, I am just passing along the updated version of the story that so many people took a strong interest in, if that makes any sense... I for one read all the post after obtaining the car and thought there were a lot of people that were left hanging and never heard anything more on the car... the car was found and the post were started as far back as 2000.. My only purpose here is to offer up the next chapter of this car up to anyone that may be interested in hearing about it. Mike |
Re: Motion Nova ???????
I understand now, thanks for the pic!
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Re: Motion Nova ???????
Is that dan's car?
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Re: Motion Nova ???????
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: luzl78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is that dan's car? </div></div>
That was my first thought |
Re: Motion Nova ???????
It was the car that Dan P. owned, now I own it. Mike
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Re: Motion Nova ???????
Dan's car that the motion either mechanic or painter, I cant remember which, supposedly remembered? I think many people wanted to see what that person gave to Dan but that never happened.
What type of info did you get about/from Dan on that subject? I'd like to see more. Rich |
Re: Motion Nova ???????
There is a lot of history in that car!
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Re: Motion Nova ???????
Hi Rich,
I was given a lot of research material including the original letter that was written by Joel, I wont post it, since it is more unflattering to Dan, but it is definitely a maybe letter about the car...keep in mind when the letter was done in 2003 there wasn't much if any real research done on the car prior to requesting the car be certified...and the person requesting the information can be a little to passionate about things !!! I was given a hand written letter from a Herby White of Whites Sunoco, undated and not well put together, who knows when it was done, I was told there is a picture from when he signed it at his nursing home but I don't have it... I was given contact information on the Painter, I personally talked to the painter great guy with a strong memory of the car and he remembers all the details of doing the paint work, including color change, replacement of vinyl top and who dyed the interior and most importantly who owned the car and who it was done for.... I was given the contact information on the mechanics from motion, I didn't not talk to either of them.... I was given the contact information of the best friend of the original owner, who remembered the car and the owner, but seemed to be distant and later it was confirmed that the original owner may have had a sketchy past since, how does an 18 year old buy and new car and send it straight to a shop and spend several thousand dollars more on the car... Keep in mind they are not young people and to say the least there memory from 45 years ago were taxed, but by the discussion we had, there was a car and this maybe it... only the true title history from NJ and a confirmation letter from Motion would make it "a for sure car !!!!!!!" I didn't push any of these people I listened to there stories, I have no dog in the fight the car is what it is, a maybe car, I haven't spent 14 years of my life trying to prove it and wont... on a scale of 1 to 100 with 100 being the least important thing in my life this car ranks 115... Not trying to be mean but there wasn't a ton of money involved in the deal and I was more interested in helping a person in need out... and Dan is surely in a bad place right now... I neither have the time or the desire to chase down the people and to restore this car at this point in my life... As for the car, it has some really neat cool stuff what I would call "day 2" items on it, it does have the build sheet and is a well optioned SS car originally...That need a whole lot of love to bring it back to it s former glory, whatever that glory was!!!! Mike |
Re: Motion Nova ???????
Thanks for the update Mike - sounds like you're just informing the community that you have purchased the car. All of the other info about the car is apparently unchanged with no further clarity?
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Re: Motion Nova ???????
"I was given the contact information of the best friend of the original owner, who remembered the car and the owner, but seemed to be distant and later it was confirmed that the original owner may have had a sketchy past since, how does an 18 year old buy and new car and send it straight to a shop and spend several thousand dollars more on the car..."
The above quote sounds like the story was it was bought at a dealer and then taken to Motion for conversion. Not being a new converted car sold at Baldwin will hurt it's value. With the NCRS coming out with the dealer records soon you will be able to find out where it was sold new. " and Dan is surely in a bad place right now..." I hope Dan is OK or will be OK. |
Re: Motion Nova ???????
At best the car was a conversion, it was sold new at Wallace Chevrolet and as rumor has it. take directly to motion for a conversion, and it is or was or maybe the one that was discussed in the published book discussing the first car 1968 Nova done by Motion.
As for Da, he is struggling, his home is in foreclosure, he has a final evection order posted and has been order to vacate, he has health issues pertaining to diabetes that has been acting up. He is currently staying in a house with no heat, can't really get out for food and has no money to support himself.. he has a strong will and a real love for these cars but sometimes he doesn't come across the best to everyone and his love cross's the line sometimes to stocking people.... I have tried very hard to help him as best as I can but he has to take the needed steps to make things better, I truly think he thought this car was his savior and he held it way to high in that esteem.. its great to love the cars but other things in life are way more important, for a long time now he has wished that he would leave this life, I think he struggles from other issues that no one really knows of and I think once he lost his connection to his business and the car guy community he has given up on things... Mike |
Re: Motion Nova ???????
Very sad about Dan - let's put him on the prayer list guys.
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Re: Motion Nova ???????
Will do (Dan on the prayer list) and thanks for the updates and helping a fellow car guy out Mike. Even in disagreement, we all have that in common.
I've got a Camaro in much the same state as this Nova, only after being paid Joel gave a "maybe" on the car and then refused to give any paperwork at all. I repeatedly requested something in writing, even a no. I wonder if Dan's issues and a "maybe" had anything to do with that no paperwork policy from Joel on a maybe Car? It sure would be great if the NCRS records were available for this car and showed the dealer. Someone probably has pulled a NICB at some point, which would at least (somewhat) confirm the dealer? Rich |
Re: Motion Nova ???????
My understanding is that Kevin S ran a report that confirmed the car came from Wallace Chevrolet, the original owners best friend also confirmed the car came from there but couldn't remember if it was a dealer to Baldwin Chevrolet or if the owner bought it as Wallace and then sent it to Motion performance. My understanding from a close friend who is involved with NCRS is the only thing they will be releasing is shipper which will only tell you the original dealer slated to have the car and not the were it ended up information.
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Re: Motion Nova ???????
Thanks so much for selling me this 1968 Nova I will take my time research it since I have the time the deposit went through to you in pay pal we will be talking glad to help you and talk with you about this car and others.
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Re: Motion Nova ???????
I'm lost? Did the car sell in this thread, again? From Dan to MikeC to leach now?
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Re: Motion Nova ???????
Yes. It sold again. Like I said before, there is a lot of history to this car that will show it was a motion car!
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Re: Motion Nova ???????
Never came up on eBay.........?
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Re: Motion Nova ???????
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: twertsy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Never came up on eBay.........? </div></div>barry bought it quick before it went to ebay. He knows what it is.
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Re: Motion Nova ???????
Wow..... great that Mike helped Dan, and the next owner is excited. Now that there is a degree of seperation between personalities, maybe some headway can be made in determining providence.
Congrats to all involved..... Rich |
Re: Motion Nova ???????
It was never my intension to use this forum to sell the car, I did go in today and become a paying member, since the car did sold as a direct result of someone contacting me about this forum, if anyone feels I should make more of a contribution let me know and I will gladly do that.
I did not search out a buyer and I was contacted by several members that reached out to me trying to buy the car. I did not profit form the transaction, as a matter of fact I lost some money on the sale. If I would have any made any profit I would sent it straight to Dan. I am not looking for any drama and it certainly seems that drama follows this car...and I truly apologize if anyone of you guys are offend by the events of this forum post. What I would like to see from this, is the people that consider Dan a friend or a least a fellow human in need, please reach out to him and offer up your kind words and thoughts and prayers, he could surly use them right now... Drop him a note or card thru snail mail he has no access to the internet and only has a home number and isn't answering it much these days...let him know we all still care about each other more than the cars that bring back a few of our youth memories.... |
Re: Motion Nova ???????
BTW:
Dan isn't the happiest with me right now. He is upset that I don't have the strong sense of commitment to the car and willing to make it a life long project to figure it out, what made it worse is the fact that I decided not to restore the car and I am going to pass the car along to someone else... Having said that I have tried and tried to figure out a way to help him more than I have...I just don't have an answer. What my suggestion would be is to drop Dan a note to his home address with maybe a card with a small gift... From what I have seen of this site, there seems to be some really great people that look out for each other, maybe you could do a post and see if there is anyone that would like to drop him a card or letter of encouragement to help his spirit... This way any correspondence or gift would go straight to him and he would have to see human kindness for what it is, just that !!!!! What are your thought on that??? anyone wanting or needing his home contact information let me know..... |
Re: Motion Nova ???????
As a 68 Nova owner who has been trying to educate people just how different and unique the 68 nova's are for the past 10 years, I hope this 68 Nova gets the publicity that it deserves.
For all the people wondering how different and unique the 68 Nova is. Try finding a <span style="text-decoration: underline">documented</span>: <span style="font-weight: bold">L30</span>(only <span style="text-decoration: underline">2483 </span>built) <span style="font-weight: bold">L34</span>(only <span style="text-decoration: underline">234</span> built) <span style="font-weight: bold">L48</span>(only <span style="text-decoration: underline">4670</span> built) <span style="font-weight: bold">L78</span>(only <span style="text-decoration: underline">667</span> and 50 were copo cars) <span style="font-weight: bold">L79</span>(0nly <span style="text-decoration: underline">1274</span> built) Now try to find the only 1968 Nova converted at motion. Hats off to Dan for holding onto this car for 12 years. Hopefully Dan gets the credit for finding the car and doing all the leg work. Only time will tell...... |
Re: Motion Nova ???????
I've seen the car. It may have been to Motion for work. It think you have a long reach from being a car with some mods at the shop to the lable/title of being the 1st Motion Nova L88 build. I'm not sure how Dan made that leap but that is when I started to question the data being presented.
We are to beleive a young spanish speaking man bought a NEW car which had to be sourced from another dealer only to have a color change as well as the interior dyed. I've never known anyone to be that foolish on new car purchase, but that is only the beginning of the additional money spent on the car. Then they also took that new small block out and only have a full L88 (not a shortblock) swapped in. The story seems to spin a list of several other key mods to create a dream Nova street racer. I struggle to beleive these key steps occured when this car was new. I hope we can discover some solid proof of the car's history. Good luck to the new owner! |
Re: Motion Nova ???????
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bergy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Very sad about Dan - let's put him on the prayer list guys.</div></div>
Yes Bruce. That has been done Dan also still has another 68 he wants to sell. I think he still has it. He is a walking encyclopedia on old drag racing and where most of these NY,NJ and eastern US cars came from. He rubbed elbows with many big time drag racers in the NED-1 area for a long time and has located many COPO's and other race cars of the era. |
Re: Motion Nova ???????
Mike, could you give (us?) Dans address. I would like to help him out. From what i personally know of him, it has never been about the almighty dollar but his has been for his love of the cars. Maybe others could help too! God knows, i dont think any of us would want to be where Dan is right now.
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Re: Motion Nova ???????
I wont post his info in open forum, but any9one wanting to reach out send ne a PM and I will send it to you.. Mike
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Re: Motion Nova ???????
Cars suck.
Prayers and best wishes to Dan! ~ Pete |
Re: Motion Nova ???????
I don't know Dan, but I have heard about this car and read most of the stuff associated with it. I have no trouble believing that an 18 year old kid would/could do what is reported to have happened. Who here knows the "kid's" background? Or his father's? Maybe they had a cash-type business and liked fast and unique cars. Look, I've been in the car business for a LONG (maybe too long) time, and I STILL see stuff that doesn't make sense. Talk to some of the old-timers and you will see my point. If you REALLY want to see/read about some unbelievable stuff, try reading about NHRA Stocker guys from the same time frame as this Nova. It will make your head spin!!! So, I say "Hats off" to the new owner; I don't know how much the car changed hands for and it sounds like some here had the opportunity to take the "gamble". I hope the story surrounding this car does come to light, or closure, or whatever the truth really is. I kinda think there is more to it than what Joel Rosen was willing to share with Dan; that is merely my take on what I've read. I am as curious as anyone here.......
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Re: Motion Nova ???????
Got car delivered to secure area and got title and other paperwork on the car. The 1968 427 converted from small block Nova SS matches up to alot of what people have said who worked on the car when it was bought new by Fredy Calas at Wallace Chevrolet and then took to Motion to have it converted to 427 L88 car for street racing. People who worked on the car when it was converted in different aspects of the transformation have said how Fredy did not like when the car was Green in color with the vinyl top a different color because the cowl tag on car V-6 color on paint is Sequoia Green and I can't find on any site what the 6 comes up to be for vinyl roof color since most sites only show 4 colors for vinyl roof. the interior The interior was 745 Gold color. So after it was done with the original color and converted and motion stripe put on car Fredy had it painted black with no stripe so people would not know what was in the car for street racing. The people who did that also dyied the gold interior black and explained how there were certain markings on the jams of the doors on the original paint from the factory that are still there along with alot of other tell tale signs of the conversion on this car. There is still overspray under the cowl cover above firewall from the white motion stripe. I have included original title from the 3rd owner who bought the car in 1975 and kept it stored at his house until it was bought in around 2000. There is a letter from Herbie White who operated a Sunoco gas station and serviced and worked on this car and other Motion cars in that area for strret racing documenting this car. It was White's Sunoco in New Jersey. I also put broad cast sheet on here of the car. Alot of pictures were taken when car delivered documenting alot of things on the car so that nothing was messed with showning alot of signs of the conversion big block towers, 5 holes where screws held the side pipes in place, Mallory on the firewall, electric fuel pump mounted in the back of car, still had regular brake pedal but the disk brakes were added at beginning for conversion, tow tabs still in place with one bolt and welded on from back then along with numerous other tell tale signs. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...erted_nova.jpg
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...cast_sheet.jpg |
Re: Motion Nova ???????
Is there any "new" information - other then Dan's research? Maybe Joel added any info?
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Re: Motion Nova ???????
I would like to see a picture of the 5 holes under the rocker. Where the side pipes were mounted. 1968 novas had rocker curtains and these have the same number of holes to mount them.
I would also think there should be another hole in the back of the rocker where the exhaust pipe would have been mounted. Aren't the 5 holes you are referring too for the cover or shield for the exhaust pipe that follows the rocker? This is assuming they would have used the 65-67 corvette side pipes? |
Re: Motion Nova ???????
Here are pictures of the 427 COPO towers that have been on the car forever since conversion stickers still in place 3rd owner who bought the car in 1975 on the title never messed with anything after using the car for so many years then put in his barn to store it until it was sold in 2000 title never got changed. Also picture of the cowl tag on the car. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...7_towers_1.jpg
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...7_towers_2.jpg https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...n_cowl_tag.jpg |
Re: Motion Nova ???????
Here come the details!!!
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Re: Motion Nova ???????
I just talked to the 3rd owner on the phone that bought the car in 1975 he said he was 18 at the time. So when he bought the car he started to strip the black paint to repaint it and took the vinyl top off the car. He said that when he started taking the black paint off he found the rap around Motion stripe in the back and up over the roof in front of vinyl roof and he is going to get me notarized letter from him on that affect and that the car had original rear with 456 posi in it at that time and the one side of rear broke loose and they welded the rear up but it was never right and would always pull more to the right after that and he got different rear which is in the car now. As soon as I get letter from him I will post it minus his name and address. He also said the trunk lid had 3 holes in it when he started to strip paint for repainting car and more of white paint going up trunk lid.
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Re: Motion Nova ???????
Here are pictures of holes for side pipes from back then not the holes for side rocker moldings which you can see moldings pictures to show they in their holes. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...de_pipes_1.jpg
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...pe_holes_2.jpg |
Re: Motion Nova ???????
Why would a 18 year old buy a car in a color that he didn,t even like ,change the interior ,change the drivetrain ,then repaint it? WAS HE THE PRINCE OF ARABIA OR SOMETHING??? he could have went straight to motion ordered the car he wanted and spent less $$$$ ....This story just dosent make any sense.....
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Re: Motion Nova ???????
I for one hope this is the 68 motion car. But the pictures you are posting are not giving all the detail's, part numbers etc,etc. I was wrong saying the side curtains mount with 5 holes its actually 7. I realize these would have to be removed to mount corvette side pipes and modified to fit the nova rocker. I'm not a corvette guy but do the side pipe covers bolt up from the bottom? Just saying....
Here are rocker curtain holes from my 68. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...psf733e6c3.png |
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