Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

I'm building a period correct 69 pro ock Camaro and heard from cragar that they changed the spoke design in the 90's to a more flat spoke and are now all uni-lug. My question is when you compare the 2 are they significantly different? Its hard to tell in pics, I know once the lug nuts are on the uni lug part disappears but I'm concerned about the spokes. I'm guessing if I painted the lug but area silver like the originals it might look better? Any info and opinions would be great. Thanks! BTW I'm going to be running a 15x4 and 15x8 or 10 deep in the back.

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

The newer flat spoke wheels came out later than you think. If I were to guess, I would say 2006-2008 or so.

Here are the newer wheels. Can you spot the differences? These are 2014 offering as you can see.
http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/w...sp6dxd8vj.jpeg

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/w...sndcplrsu.jpeg

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/w...s42mzscc3.jpeg

Here are some traditional spokes from 1997

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/w...psdcfbadc5.jpg

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/w...sucnrwknt.jpeg

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/w...sa5wvpbxn.jpeg

Here is a set form 1994

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/w...slt3krp5y.jpeg

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/w...sxo6vou7z.jpeg

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/w...silqdte3j.jpeg

The chrome isn't great on the old ones. What I would like to do is collect old centers when I can get them cheap. You can re-hoop them and re-chrome them. Maybe change the offset too. I'm not thrilled with this particular look, due to the large flat area- though I've seen original Cragars with it too. Just found these on ebay tonight but they show the whole re-hoop and custom offset thing. I still would rather rock these than the newer flat spokes- but I can't really explain why. Sometimes ego trumps logic.

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/w...ps91c4e592.jpg

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/w...ps3522a7c3.jpg

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/w...ps2dbc3f1c.jpg

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/w...ps9d271266.jpg

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pxtx</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The newer flat spoke wheels came out later than you think. If I were to guess, I would say 2006-2008 or so.

Here are the newer wheels. Can you spot the differences? These are 2014 offering as you can see.
http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/w...sp6dxd8vj.jpeg

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/w...sndcplrsu.jpeg

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/w...s42mzscc3.jpeg

Here are some traditional spokes from 1997

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/w...psdcfbadc5.jpg

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/w...sucnrwknt.jpeg

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/w...sa5wvpbxn.jpeg

Here is a set form 1994

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/w...slt3krp5y.jpeg

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/w...sxo6vou7z.jpeg

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/w...silqdte3j.jpeg

The chrome isn't great on the old ones. What I would like to do is collect old centers when I can get them cheap. You can re-hoop them and re-chrome them. Maybe change the offset too. I'm not thrilled with this particular look, due to the large flat area- though I've seen original Cragars with it too. Just found these on ebay tonight but they show the whole re-hoop and custom offset thing. I still would rather rock these than the newer flat spokes- but I can't really explain why. Sometimes ego trumps logic.

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/w...ps91c4e592.jpg

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/w...ps3522a7c3.jpg

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/w...ps2dbc3f1c.jpg

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/w...ps9d271266.jpg

</div></div>

Pxtx thanks so much for the comparison! I agree 100% with the ego statement lol! I love the rounded spoke really has that classic look. I've seen a few sets that need to be re chromed but some guys want stupid money for them. I may just hold out until I can fond some real clean originals! Thanks again.

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

Unilugs were out pretty early. The round spoke is the key for me. Great pictures from PXTX on the subject.
Also the &quot;new&quot; 15X4 Cragars are now 15X4.5

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

Unilugs bother me as much as flat spokes.

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

I agree 100% guys! I'm gonna keep looking for the old style cragars they always pop up here and there.

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

I have a bunch of early NOS..here is 14x6 NOS..Camera sorta distorted the size of the wheels. Al early Cragars until at least the late 70's or early 80's had the lug nut pocket sprayed with aluminum colored paint from the factory..not sure when Crgar stopped but I have some early 80's and they were still painted..

I can't stand the new flat spoke Cragars..looks like the cheap no name brands of the 70's or model car kit mags.

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: camarojoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Unilugs bother me as much as flat spokes. </div></div>

The Cragars on my car are unilug and have been on it since 1975..never a problem.

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

I'm sure they're not a problem... But in my opinion if you're going for a true &quot;day 2&quot; look on a 60's Chevy they gotta have round lug holes.

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

I'm finishing up a very accurate period correct (1970-74 era). Day 2
69 Z/28 with SS Cragars, 8 1/2 X15 rear &amp; Aluminum slots 15X7 fronts.
In finding originals that size I found nothing but Junk or flaking,peeling Uni-lugs that were unacceptable to use
(anybody having mint or NOS Wheels either wanted stupid $$$ or weren't for sale) or had 'bad rechroming'

I Chose the New SS Direct fit single bolt circle with the Best Chrome these wheels have had in 35+ years.
Yes, these are flat spokes mounted on Original Good Year L60's &amp; F60's.
I used Original centers with the bold script &amp; blue paint .
They Look fine on the car, fit the wheelhouse without air shocks or shackles (barely) These Are safe with no Fatigue or hidden cracked welds or damaged spokes as I will Run the car on the Dragstrip @ well over 100 mph along with hard Street use.
Taking in account Quality,Looks,New Chrome, Size and backspacing and Of Course SAFETY, this was a No Brainer in Choosing the &quot;Newest Cragar SS vs
questionable original uni-lugs that are actually Incorrect for my Build.

If Cragar Industries Remakes the &quot;Round spoke in Direct fit&quot;,,, I'd buy them in a heartbeat.....just saying.
Thanks, this is a great thread !

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Day2_69Z</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
questionable original uni-lugs that are actually Incorrect for my Build.

</div></div>
Cragars bought the unilugs out in 1971-1972.
Srs how many people are gonna look at the lug nut area..I would notice the flat spokes way before the lug nut pocket.

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

yep, but I also have Brand New non Blemished wheels to Go Fast with and have piece of mind.
Plus, I hate the silver paint in the lug area....terrible then...terrible now !.
The new wheels are quite nice...not perfect like a &quot;Paul's Chrome&quot; for $1200 -$1500 ...2 wheels. + the cost of wheels

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: whitetop</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Day2_69Z</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
questionable original uni-lugs that are actually Incorrect for my Build.

</div></div>
Cragars bought the unilugs out in 1971-1972.
Srs how many people are gonna look at the lug nut area..I would notice the flat spokes way before the lug nut pocket.</div></div>

I agree. I don't remember when I had a non unilug Cragar on my 69 SS nova that I bought new. I guess I ran rally's till I could afford the Cragars and that must have been 1972 or so. I like the painted aluminum centers too. Like the contrast.

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

Hey guys,,, just because I'm a bit younger than MOST of Yinz....

I never owned anything but unilug aluminum painted lug area Cragars till these I bought last year at Summit, where they allowed me to hand pick the wheels I wanted.
Fully Chromed looks better to me than a cover up for Cheap Plating techniques of the 70's....they painted where they didn't chrome ! and the area rusted quickly unless babied.

The direct fit is a way better attachment point using conical wheel nuts that won't loosen unlike the unilugs. The unilugs need periodic or weekly tightening as the heat from the brakes expand 3 different metals to loosen.
Aluminum wheels, steel washers and steel nuts.....just saying.....

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

Not to mention a uni-lug is a 70s thing. Fine for a 70s theme, but not right for a 60's day 2 car.

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

Damn,,
its a good thing my car is only wearing Cragars on the rear as then I would have 4 wheels to thread about than two....lol....
Cars with Slots may be a different thread but nobody has the &quot;New American or US MAGS&quot; Aluminum Slots to rave about !
Man those wheels are the biggest P.O.S. I have ever seen from any wheel company. Yes, that JUNK comes from China !
I hope no one here has them on their car .

Joe,
my car is a 69 with the most accurate early 70's theme of parts I could muster. The only &quot;new items&quot; are the pair of Cragars.

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

I'll tell ya the more I'm trying to convince myself on the new ones I just can't come to grips with them! Wish I could find a nice set of 15x4's for a good deal!

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

Thanks guys for all the input as well!

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

a nice set of 15 x 4's. for a good deal is a double intondra.....
ain't. happening....
Brent had a pair, Rechromed at Paul's
that went for Over a Grand ...
most flawed, tarnished or lightly pitted ones go for 5 bills give or take....

we can always hope.

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

a pair just went on Ebay direct bolt for $580.00 with tires.
I just bought round spoke versions (unilug) that are real nice for under $400.00 shipped a few weeks ago.
Gotta keep your eye out.

60's cars could still get unilug wheels because not everybody bought the wheels in 1969 for a 69 car immediately.
Pumping gas or paper root money did not pay that much so you had to save up for that kinda stuff. had to pay insurance before you could buy Speed Shop accessories.
Also, I have been running unilug and direct bolt wheels for over 40 years and mine never came off or even worked loose on the street or drag strip.

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

Sure you could have bought uni-lug Cragars for your new 69 several YEARS later, but that's certainly not a &quot;day 2&quot; wheel by definition. Day 2 Cragars should be versions made at (or very near) the time the car itself was made.

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

Geez... tough crowd. 98% of people that look at these new wheels will never know the difference between the original wheels and the modern wheels. The new wheels still capture the basic &quot;look&quot;. While I agree that the originals look better, there is something to be said about having a brand new wheel with no rust or hidden damage if you are actually driving or racing the car.

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

When we judge Day-2 at MCACN they tell us to try to stay with a 1 year or so time frame on the Day-2 parts. Without dismounting the tire from the wheel and looking at the date its tough to see if that unilug/straight lug wheel is within the one year or so time frame. The flat spokes are a dead give-a-way. I personally tend to go a little further in the process because those Day-2 parts took a couple years at times to reach the cars back then. Some Speed Shop parts that were originally on my nova did not come out to the early 70's or so. Torquer intake manifolds , Cragar Super Tricks, tall valve covers etc. I even believe header mufflers were a product of the early 70's. Its a tough call on the time frame of these old parts.

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: camarojoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sure you could have bought uni-lug Cragars for your new 69 several YEARS later, but that's certainly not a &quot;day 2&quot; wheel by definition. Day 2 Cragars should be versions made at (or very near) the time the car itself was made. </div></div>

Most of the guys that bought these cars back in the 60's/70's were not making the money to buy these DAY 2 parts the same year that they came out. Cape cod one car garage house that had a guy leaning on the trunk...shirt off working 65 hours a week to own these cars. I for one was there and had these cars and it took me months or even a year or two to get the speed parts that I wanted for the car. Side pipes/Cragars/Hooker headers/Edlebrock Manifolds/Hurst shifters/Lakewood traction bars and so on...Sam is right on what and how to judge what happened back then and what is ample time for these parts to get on these hi-po cars. Sam was there...lived it... bought it...raced it. House/kids and marriage was the downing moment for these guys that made them sell their cars. Oh...and the price of gas and the insurance didn't help much.

Why do you think that soo many different magazines were printed about these cars and all the speed parts that were being manufactured during that time period. Do people really think that the average guy could buy a Motion or Nickey or Yenko back in the day...NO way!! No body cared about paperwork for these cars...only paperwork they kept was the Hurst stickers or instructions from the speed part box. Remember guys...these cars were our daily drivers in all kinds of weather. Snow as well! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Dave
67 Nova Boy

My daily driver that I raced/drove to school. 69 Chevelle SS 396 L78 4-speed {original Monoco Orange with Liquid tire chain}

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...8-img_1815.jpg

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

Bottom line is uni-lugs look better than modern Cragars, but definitely weren't made or sold in 69/70 or even 71. If you bought any style of Cragars in those years they had round holes and were a direct fit.

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

Joe...agree 100%

Straight lugs are the best but real hard to find now a days.

Dave
67 Nova Boy

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

Very good points Dave.

So that is the &quot;bottom line&quot; folks.

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

Sam,Dave &amp; Joe,
You are all both right and subjective.
to the Real World of Day 2.
My car was sold in November of 69 when the year was over.
1970 was the start of Day 2 for this build. The items Did Not get installed all at once but as a &quot;progression&quot; of Performance and appearance.
Trying to be accurate, detailed and correct for the period I set a time frame from 1970-74 for acceptable speed parts.
I acquired dated catalogs, Era magazines and NOS or Boxed items with dated packages,directions,even dated parts.
Some were made and marketed for years prior and post my time frame. Some with a small window.
Judgeing a Day two car is subjective at best. Opinions, knowledge and facts needed would be immense considering the volume of parts, manufactures and application.

Cragars manufactured in various time periods are as different as NOS parts made decades apart. Reproduction parts made years or decades apart are vastly different from Original, NOS ,NORS, reissued parts.
Are you judging wheels differently than Reproduction, Nos or reissue parts ?
Or being subjective and reasonable as a group of men can be on a 40 - 45 year old car &amp; parts ?

Tom

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

Tom, I like your time frame from 70 to 74ish on a 68-69 cars.
That is how I see it but others do not.
I take more into consideration (time factor) because I am older than some of these guys
and have lived this Speed Shop transformation personally.

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

Yes,
I know that oh so well.
I'm 55. that being said, I was 10 in 69 &amp; 11 in 70.....with a Dad and older brother, uncles, friends and locals living that era. I hung around,helped work on and even rode in &quot;these real world Day 2 Cars&quot;. As I got older I was able to drive and &quot;tune them&quot;.
What the reality brings us is a lot of these parts saw limited use and were sold or traded off for newer, better or totally different upgrades or changes.
It was commonplace for top local strip &amp; street guys to buy / trade Used Parts that were &quot;like new&quot; therefore the use of 5-10 yr old pieces vs run out and buy unproven new stuff was prevalent.
Where I'm going is that today , if you find a 69 Car with 5-10 year old prior speed parts on it , most of today's Day 2 guys will scoff because &quot;they didn't know&quot; , they didn't &quot;live it&quot;.
Same for a 69 Car with mostly '77-'79 parts added. They think its right.
On the flip side are cars from '69 that weren't modified until the late 70's -early 80's....
Are these Day 2 cars or period cars ?

I've had and preserved both kinds.

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

Sam,
When a guy sells off his #480 distributor &amp; #837 alternator for real speed parts of the era..... my hats off to him for that guy is a true hot rodder, Day 2 living historian !!!!

been there, done it and continue to do it

Tom

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

Keep up the good work Tom.

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

Thanks !!!
My aim on this build from the get go was for &quot;guys of your era&quot; to be the &quot;instruction sheet&quot; and gain their approval of my endeavors as the end result will be obvious.

This kind of Restoration is tougher than a stock OEM build where a catalog is your guide &amp; reproduction cars are in abundance


Tom

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

Well good news guys! Strangely enough I just found a set last night of original 15x4 direct fit cragars with moroso drag special tires 5.50-15 both are in real nice shape. Wheels might need to be re-chromed but might be salvage the lug but pockets!

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

GOOD DEAL!

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Resurrected69ss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well good news guys! Strangely enough I just found a set last night of original 15x4 direct fit cragars with moroso drag special tires 5.50-15 both are in real nice shape. Wheels might need to be re-chromed but might be salvage the lug but pockets! </div></div>

Nice! Those wheels are the correct era/style for a '69.

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

Anyone have a set of 15x7 original style Cragars for a '69 Z? I think my car is in need of a change...

Thanks,
Dan

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

use 8's. and. 6's

can't beat the depth contrast

need 4 1/4. - 4 1/2 - 4 3/4 inch Back space for bigger tires ....

I'll set you up......
on your carte Blanche card.....
h.m.mmm

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: camarojoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Resurrected69ss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well good news guys! Strangely enough I just found a set last night of original 15x4 direct fit cragars with moroso drag special tires 5.50-15 both are in real nice shape. Wheels might need to be re-chromed but might be salvage the lug but pockets! </div></div>

Nice! Those wheels are the correct era/style for a '69. </div></div>

Yeah man! And they have the tires I wanted! Though I'm not sure if the 5.50-15 might a tad to short. They still look great!

Re: Old style cragar ss vs the new style ss
 

I looked for like 6 months for a set of 15x4 cragars for my 69. One night I was on my local craigslist and typed in &quot;cragar&quot;. There they were.. 15x4 cragars 5x4.750 still in the boxes!
got em for 200 bucks in dusty old boxes. The funny think is they were lised on there for quite a while and nobody bought them. LUCK ! I have newer 15x10s on the rear. unilug. I think the newer 15x10s have a step in the hoop that the older ones don't so I'm still looking for a set of old 15x10s. Love the cragars! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...garagerear.jpg