Window Stickers
 

Hi , just saw an interesting post from a company that will make you a window sticker & age it .. The place is called Winvoices .com

https://www.yenko.net/forum/member.php?u=54078

Paul is his name.

Just used them.. They do AWESOME work!! Paul is fast and has great communication with you during the process.

Rich

x2.....much better than another well-known repro window sticker company.

'

Paul's an awesome guy also a great SYC member who regularly shares his amazing database of RPO and Dealer info w/ others here.
When the NCRS doesn't, he often has missing Dealer Codes and other details also has graciously offered help to SYC members in this linked thread...
https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=137682

:beers:
~ Pete

.

Paul is awesome. I used him for the window sticker on my '69 L78 Nova. First, I had used the other well-known competitor and after providing a copy of my build sheet and listing the options on my car, the other guy sent me a window sticker which left off the L78, the most important part! Paul did a great job and even called the original dealership that sold my car and found out through them that their address in 1969 was slightly different than today. He also got a hold of a retired salesman from that dealership. I was pleased well beyond my expectations.

What other reproduction docs have members here purchased from PAUL ????

I bought the package deal from him of window sticker, car shipper and sales invoice.

Me too.

I like Paul and he does nice work.
But after one or two owners, these docs almost always become original documentation. I wish they would be marked as reproduction somehow or a list of VIN's maintained and accessible in some form.

I'm with you Kurt who do you sue when you find out you bought a high end car with fake paper ?i think this is really bad for the collector car hobby all the stuff paul makes should be stamped repo someware

I agree. What if all reproduced paperwork actually has "REPRODUCTION" across it so it could potentially prevent future problems? If you had a car that actually had one of the main docs that people look for, POP, window sticker, or build sheet, what would it really hurt by having "REPRODUCTION" across reproduced paperwork? If you have one of the aforementioned pieces of original paperwork, it shouldn't make a bit of difference. Sure, say, having a window sticker reproduced is nice to have and looks good with any other original documents. You're just having a document replaced, represented. My Caprice doesn't have any paperwork. All physical indicators say it is, what it is. But if I had paperwork made to show with the car I sure would want "REPRODUCTION" across it. If I sold it I wouldn't want it going out with paperwork that somebody could misrepresent it with down the road.

I wouldn't have a problem with an indication of repro. I have the orig. window sticker that I want to have a copy of due to its delicate condition. It would be nice to have the copy laminated for display.

Steve,

A higher end color photo copy of your WS that you make yourself will look stunning. You may just set yourself up for a firestorm of controversy when you sell your car and there is a very good repro floating around. Which one is real and why would there be a repro floating around if in fact there is an original one? Not worth going down that path, IMHO.

I bought a repro window sticker and laminated it so there would be no question that it's not original. No aging etc to try to mislead someone. I don't believe the one I have would need to say "repro" because anyone that matters would know immediately.

A friend attending Mecum Indy sent photos of two "window stickers." Both are reproductions with obvious errors.

N647976 is noted on the signage as "Original Window Sticker".

N565875 is attached to the car; no mention of it being a reproduction.

This is exactly the problem with fake paperwork.

N647976 Window sticker
 

Interesting description on N647976, 3 owner? It was owned in NY with an Alabama title and later was owned in FL. It was for sale on Camaros.net in FL about 5 or so years ago for an unusually low price of $85k for such a loaded Canadian Copo? That would be at least 3 owners in the last 10 or so years??

Some people go nutz when they see a trim tag on ebay [God forbid a vin tag] ...or a re-stamped anything...I mean like 'call the cops' ...

but maybe think nothing of getting patina-ized paperwork that is meant to do nothing but deceive.

The line gets drawn all over the place depending on who is holding the pencil...

WS's
 

I don't see any links to these pics or to any pages, I'd look to these these window stickers.

Paul

I think the window stickers, car shipper forms and other docs that Paul reproduces are cool novelty items to have with your car. I agree that people should not be passing them off as original.

But unfortunately these things happen..

Rich

JMHO but I cannot understand why anyone would want to recreate documents for 'novelty' purposes, but wouldn't be happy to have them clearly marked 'reproduction'. You either have original documentation, or you don't.

It's simple. I don't want it to say it because I don't want it to say "reproduction" on it. That's the beauty of freedom. I can do that.
If anyone is foolish enough to believe my laminated brand new document is real and they don't ask me if they're really worried about it, they're an idiot and I really don't care what they think. Honestly, mine stays in my file cabinet anyway. I just like it for myself so I can see what it might have looked like and it's nice to see all my options and their original price tag. Again, it's not aged etc. to mislead anyone.
Since the dawn of time there have been scam artists. That will never change. I don't believe in changing things for everyone because of a few thieves etc. Go after the ones that are actually scamming. Hold them accountable if you want.
JMO and as such might not mean anything to anyone, but me...

I say novelty because people like to see them displayed with the car. Some people ask if it's real and I simply say it's not but what the original would have looked like. I think reproduction stamped on them would look dumb. Just my .02...

Rich

I have no problem with someone displaying Paul's paperwork with a car and truly think he does an "outstanding" job with his invoices and window stickers. Not only that, but I like how far he goes to research the facts on each customers car as well as the background info he often digs up on original dealerships. I have used Paul's services before and while already having had GM of Canada paper to go with that car, he researched facts to discover a few unknown details about the car and the dealership it came from, and did so on his own accord. He then went on to dig up additional promotional material on the original, but then defunct Chevrolet dealership.

Now on the other side of the coin I do recognize the issue with "some people" misrepresenting paper when it comes to selling a car, but to me that is solely on the integrity of the individual seller. Furthermore, I believe it's up to each and every buyer to perform the proper due diligence when buying a car regardless of its value, paperwork claims or the cars actual pedigree. Greed in itself is a funny thing which always brings fraudulent acts out of the shadows and stamping paper with the words "Reproduction" is not going to stop that!!! In fact, it's almost as bad as saying that every reproduced part on the market today should be stamped with words "Reproduction".

Fact is, most of us question almost "any" piece of paper unless there's rock solid ownership history to fact check the lineage of any such piece being claimed as original. IMHO, anyone who buys a vintage muscle car should (must) back check each such claim and if they don't, then bad on the prospective buyer for throwing such caution to the wind!!!

We already have enough trim tag and paperwork cops out there, and with all of the parts being made today that very closely resemble an original part right down to the smallest detail, it's high time that prospective buyers assume more responsibility to ensure they perform their own due diligence and focus on cars that are proven authentic. That or at least properly ascertain the level that the car has actually been restored to, or better yet do it through a certified pro appraiser who knows that cars particular makeup. There are too many would be buyers out there that just go and write the check without knowing what they should be looking for, what they're looking at or who they should hire to inspect a car if they haven't already done the proper homework and background checks.

Just my 2 bits on the matter, and yes I do realize other opinions will differ.

counterfit documents
 

Nothing wrong with displaying a reproduction document, window sticker, tank stick, whatever. Its when they get represented as real or the sgt schultz excuse i know nothing . Read forgery laws. INTENT to decieve -----> aging a fake document ... MY OPINION

Both cars crossed the block at Mecum with the fake docs. The auctioneer stated N647976 had an original window sticker. Did not meet reserve.

Nothing was said about N565875; misrepresentation by silence. Hammered for $60k.

Not to argue the point William {and I do appreciate your pursuit of documentation}, but if I was buying a car worth 60K, I would have personally traveled there to inspect it, or hired a consultant to look at it for me. Anyone failing to do so falls under the term;

Proverb:

a fool and his money are soon parted

• It is easy to get money from foolish people.

• It is difficult or unlikely that foolish people maintain their hold on acquired wealth.

That in itself is what brings "INTENT" to deceive to the forefront for the curb artists of the world.

Here we go again.

1970 Chevelle SS LS-6 454 136370R210143 is being advertised as [quoting the ad]:

Documented, #s match concourse restoration!
#s match throughout and documented.
Has invoice and predelivery inspection which has protect-o-plate imprint.

In addition to the photos of the “paperwork” there are photos of VIN-stamped engine and trans.

Check out the link to an old on-line ad. Was not even an SS; originally a column-shift auto Malibu. No engine, trans, 10 bolt axle. Same VIN as the car currently marketed as an LS-6.

http://www.2040-cars.com/chevrolet/c...evelle-714726/

And look who it is selling it..
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-Chevrol...-/172675106692

Vehicle Description
#s match throughout and documented. Has invoice and predelivery inspection which has protect-o-plate imprint. Also a long detailed list of correct part #s. Just finished a total body off frame restoration. There isn't a piece of this car that isn't restored like new. Even where you can't see. If you take the door panel off you will see the components in the door are detailed to show quality. If you removed the upholstery you will see seat springs that have been stripped primed and painted. Beca...use of the perfect fit and finish this car is considered better then new. Every functional part is restored or new. Only 40 test miles. Every part of the car is correct. From the engine trans and rear to the carb distributor and manifolds. Even down to the correct exhaust with numbered resonaters. Correct pulleys belts radiator smog equipment and more. 450 hp was the highest advertised hp of any American production car. This one is backed by a rock crusher 4-speed and 4.10 posi. It means business! Whether you want an investment a piece of garage jewelry or a neck snapping driver you get all 3 with this car! Invoice Predelivery sheet Power steering Power disc brakes Cowl induction Gauges Console Bucket seats Deluxe tilt wheel 4.10 posi





I've had enough of people contacting me with Q about this car.
As William has shown,and thanks to the internet,do your own homework before purchasing.

….

I have a repro window sticker on one of my cars that matches the original. How will that hurt anyone?

I have provided examples of repro paperwork being used to fraudulently enhance the value and salability of genuine muscle cars. Two cars at Mecum Indy had fake paperwork displayed with the car. The auctioneer mentioned "original window sticker" when one of them crossed the block.

In the most recent example it is being used to enhance the value and salability of a complete fake LS-6 Chevelle. What more do you need?

If your car is what you say it is why does it need a repro window sticker?

BTW the dealer that has the fake LS-6 was notified yesterday, not by me. As of this am, still unchanged on their site.

The easiest way to tell repro paperwork from original is that the new stuff looks new.....UNLESS..........it's aged. That aging is the intent to defraud. And that is the real problem. (IMO)

Verne

....and the fonts,among other things.

Years ago I took a blank window sticker, cheap one, and added all my Day Two mods to it. Pretty neat to let others know what's been done and play where's Waldo with all the parts. Haven't had it in the car in years.....Yep, guess I still don't need it. :dunno:

BIG

That's only true for the die-hards in the hobby who have studied original ones, in which case they can also detect fake ones that have been aged. Once they've been aged, "most" people will believe they are original.
:scholar:

It up to the purchaser to do their research with any rare item of value. Counterfeiting is not going away.

Without a Build Sheet a buyer is always going to be in the dark as far as what the car left the factory with or if the car in question is what the seller says it is.

Having a repro Window Sticker isn't going to change that. It's up to the buyer to do due diligence before he commits his money.

It has and always will be Caveat Emptor.

True but there are varying levels of experience in the market for the cars. I have been virtually exclusively '69 Camaro for almost 42 years, still learning about them. Some of the repro paperwork out there is very well done, more so if it is artificially aged. All they have to do is fool some of the people some of the time.

The problem is the average guy at an auction. Maybe just retired, has money to spend. Unless he is there with Jerry MacNeish how is he to know the paperwork displayed at an auction is real? Barrett-Jackson makes an effort to vet consignments but I have seen repro paperwork there also.

I have no problem with an owner displaying a repro doc at a show. Repro paperwork has no business being displayed with a car offered for sale.

No idea why Chevrolet allows these guys to use their trademarked names and logos without permission.