Who bought this copo camaro
 

Did anyone from here by the COPO Camaro N664112 ? It sold for 15k, seller ended auction.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Chevro...p2047675.l2557

Originally frost green with white vinyl top and standard white interior. BDY 366216
Nothing much left original on that car, is bb heater core original? Looks like small block motor mounts?

Other than theX44 and BB heater, what would make you think that this is a COPO car? I'd like to know how to spot them.

It is listed in the Registry. Oh Bergy tell us more.

Seems to me that the seller would have listed it as a COPO car. Unless I missed it there was no mention of it being a COPO in his ad. Did he not know what he had?

This car was just added March of this year after inspection & recommendation of very knowledgeable CRG and SYC members. Registration includes body number & other TT data. No original drivetrain present at time of registration. I will have to ask the registrants if it's ok to post their names. I can assure you that they are members whose expertise would not be questioned by the community. All of the cars in the registry rest on 3 legs: 1. Factory/Dealer paperwork, 2. Expert inspections & certifications, and 3. Ownership history (with contact info). The car being discussed here obviously teeters on one leg & it should be valued accordingly, but the experts are credible IMO.

When i spoke with the owner, he did not mention anything about copo. I believe it was just an old drag car that was not known except for the registry. You can see that at some point in had a full cage going back to the trunk rear frame rails. I was going to pull the trigger on the auction and did not expect the auction to be ended, lesson learned.
Roger

I spoke with the seller again, really nice guy. He spoke with a guy for a few days, a guy from texas drove over and loaded it up. He has no contact information for buyer other than he drove straight thru from texas to grab it.
Roger

How much money would've bought it before the seller ended the auction?

He had a $13,000 reserve. $15,000 bought it to end the auction. What is it's real current value if inspected and verified, certified?

Seems like this type of car being added to the registry needs to have some type of notation stating something along the lines of: no paperwork or drivetrain but believed to be based on telltail signs. My concern is people rely on our list but this car has no drivetrain or docs. Maybe cars like this get their own ‘maybe’ section.

I don't believe there has been a documented L78 with an X44 trim tag?

It's not easy to get a car added to the registry. We have at least 20 registration requests that have been refused pending more documentation. I wouldn't even add my own BY copo until I had it independently certified by JM. We add the disclaimer to the registry because it's not inconceivable that a mistake could be made on an entry. IMO, that's why it's important to have the registry indicate the "back-up" info that the car has (i.e - ownership history, factory/dealer docs, and certifications). As with any rare classic car, the more "back-up" the better. IMO - the less "back-up" = less value.

Roger contacted me before bidding on the car that is the subject of this thread & I shared everything in our DB (except names - they are always kept confidential). If the registry indicated that it had a POP, window sticker, vintage photos, original drive train, etc. - I'm sure that he would have been encouraged to be more aggressive in bidding.

We do keep a file on drive train components, but it's not indicated on the public registry because it's just so hard to distinguish definitively "OE" versus "numbers match" versus "I just found my original BE rear", etc. Gosh - the ZL1s alone seem to find their "original engines" a lot! So, we keep a file & notes on all of the cars that contains additional non-confidential information available to our community(unless the owner or registrant requests that it not be shared).

Finally, I'm just the clerk - if you want changes made, I suggest that you let Steve know & he will make a determination. :-)

Someone has contacted me to let me know he was interested in the car and while asking for other pics he noticed the firewall did not have the piercing in the usual place for the cowl induction wiring.

I just want to say that i did contact bergy, and he gave me all the info he had. The person that contacted charley about this COPO also contacted me and told me about the concerns he had with the car. I thank both of them for their information and help. The seller did not know it was anything other than a 69 camaro. And talking with the seller, i am not sure he would understand where to look for the cowl induction firewall pierce. I have not seen a pic of that area of the car. But i agree that the registry should review policies on cars entered.

I think it is Important to keep the Registry pure. That is the best word I could think of. No docs or drivetrain, I don’t care who certifies it I don’t think it should be in the Registry. I think it should be listed in a separate ‘maybe’ Registry.

Up to the community. That decision is way above my pay grade. Registrar just needs direction on:

1. Drivetrain - who will be determining if it's original versus re-stamp? Are we going to lean on an expert certification, or just take the registrant's word for it?

2. Docs - who will determine original docs versus re-pro? Also, what docs (or combination of docs) suffice? Again - are we going to lean on an expert analysis, or just take the registrant's word for it?

If we move all cars without known original engine stamps and/or known original factory/dealer documents - we move about 80% of the cars to the "maybe" registry. If we require that all stamps and/or docs be certified - we have to move a lot more cars to "maybe". IMO - we placed the disclaimer there for a reason - mistakes can (and will) happen. If the subject car does not have ZL2 (and the firewall isn't cut up), then it's a mistake. The car has been on the CRG DB as a COPO since 2011. Our registry does not accept all COPOs on the CRG DB carte blanche - but with knowledgeable inspection we have. We can add a column that indicates "factory documents and/or original engine", but someone will have to provide the list of the appropriate cars that qualify. Right now, we have engine date stamps & docs in the DB, but no certification as to originality.

For what it's worth, we have already added 3 columns to the public registry to briefly reveal the cars pedegree. Maybe you guys can discuss this subject at MCACN and provide additional direction.

I believe that we can always improve the registry, and quite honestly Bruce has done a tremendous job organizing and gathering information. I have a couple of ideas that should clarify a cars status, and validate that it qualified for the registry.

Managing the registry is quite a task, and I thank Bruce for all his efforts.

Regarding the registry, a couple of weeks ago I asked Marlin Spotts to be the administrator for the Deuce Registry and he has agreed. Like Bruce he has the passion and integrity and an all around great guy and hobbyist.!!!!

My apology to Bruce. He is doing a tremendous job. One of the reasons I passed the site onto Steve is just this type of thing that needs to be addressed but I know I wouldn’t put in the effort to get it done.

No apology needed Charley. You're one of the pillars of our hobby and your input is appreciated. You're the man who hired me for this job! You were correct though.... when you said that the pay sucks.

Go Bergy!!

We all appreciate your efforts and also can understand the continuous requests for more and more details on these cars. This is Camaro stuff so this doesn't keep me up at night but the 69 Chevelle list I almost have it memorized:-) Keep doing an awesome job!!!

Ryan

A lot of confusing rhetoric. Doesn't sound like it is confirmed to be a real COPO.

NCRS shipping data for this car would be interesting to know.

There are two topics being discussed, one is this particular Camaro and two, is the criteria for the registry.

Many of the "COPO" cars do not , have dealer (Inventory sheets noted ) or factory paperwork, original drivetrains and or concrete owner history.

Trying to inentify and register these special cars is a nobel and worthy endeavor. So thanks Bergy, and all involved.

Regarding the registry, I would suggest that if you do rely on info from any source, that you disclose the source.

Parts can be made to look authentic and not discernible via restamping, paperwork and protectoplates can be exactly duplicated and patinaed, and anyone can be fooled, when fakers get involved....etc.

Regarding this particular Camaro, I couldn't state either way based on info presented whether or not this is a COPO, but there is a lot of weight being placed on one hole in the firewall on a car which has not retained much if any originality over the years.

Regarding this particular Camaro, I couldn't state either way based on info presented whether or not this is a COPO, but there is a lot of weight being placed on one hole in the firewall on a car which has not retained much if any originality over the years.[/QUOTE]

But if the hole is not there? End of story.

I don't think it would be easy to separate the cars based on paperwork/original parts, etc. As already stated, who decides what is original? I think a great job is being done now and the only improvement would be to note the soureces of the docs, inspections, parts, etc. presented. And then let everyone do thier own research.

Great job by Bruce and all involved!

Here is the photo that caused uncertainty.

What uncertainty? I don't see the cowl wiring hole?

With the angle of that pic, if there is no grommet or wire. How could you tell if a hole is or is not actually their. I was not able to get any other pics. But what i can tell you, is that someone drove 17 hrs straight thru to get this car from texas. The price of the car was cheap enough, that if it is not a copo. He will get his money back if he sells.