Battery/starter question
 

So my chevelle has a bbc 427 in it. I bought the car with the motor already built so I really have no specifics on the intervals as far as compression ratio! The car started fine when I bought it. I had to replace the frame so I completely dismantled the car for some reason or the other I took the starter off. After I put it all back together it started like the starter needed to be shimmed but life got in the way and the car has sat for around 6 years. I did start the car every so often. I’m currently picking away at it and want to get this starter sorted out. Problem is now it turns over once or twice (sometimes a half turn) still sounding like it needs to be shimmed. So I put some shims in it got a bit better but still the same cranking problem. This morning I pulled out the spark plugs and it turns over great with a hair bit of starter grind but it does turn over quick! The battery I was using is a 600 cca battery could this battery be to small or is something else going on! I did pull the starter off and tried another I had laying around and the same problem! I did notice with both starters the starter gear remains touching the fly wheel just barely but we completely release itself if I tap the starter with the palm of my hand! Thanks

You might want to try 1/2 of a shim on the side toward the crank centerline. That works sometimes better than a whole shim.

'

Sounds like two problems?
Shim issue aside, load test the battery if you haven't already.
Confirm all grounds also try a secondary ground w/ Booster Cable Neg. Battery to Starter body.
Any chance your timing's too advanced?:hmmm:
Best of luck!
:beers:
~ Pete

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Pete I was getting alittle smoke from the ground wire at the battery when cranking and the fenders are currently off the vehicle so the ground from the battery cable to the fender is not hooked up! This car has got the biggest battery cables Iv ever seen probably the diameter of a quarter! I’m gonna shim one side of the starter as Mr Brown suggests because it’s definitely grinding but I think u might have the answer with the ground!
Yea know I wasn’t thinking I had messed with the timing but now u bring it up I did have the intake off to restore it so that’s also a possibility! I’ll get back after it in the morning and report back! Thanks

Although, if the Neg cable is connected to the engine, the fender ground is a non issue as far as cranking goes.

Yes Lynn the negative is hooked directly to the side of the head!

If it hasn't run since you had the intake off, I would SUSPECT that the distributor is out of time. However, you still need to address the starter adjustment before you cause more damage.

600 amps is a bit weak for a big block, especially if it is very high compresson.

A load test would be a good place to start. From there I would do the following:

1. Pull the starter and make sure the bronze bushings on each end have a TINY amount of lube. I like red synthetic grease.

2. Leave the plugs out for now; install the starter, and get the starter shimmed as needed so it does not hang up at all.

3. Once you know it is perfect, put the plugs back in, remove the wires from the + side of the coil and see if it cranks OK. If it cranks slow, you know you either a. just don't have enough battery, or b. you have too much resistance somewhere in the battery cables. I know you said the cables were huge; but you need to check that they are in good shape at each end of each cable. I have seen cables that had started coming apart at the ends, and effectively only a few of those many strands were carrying the whole load. The other thing to check for is internal corrosion. If the old green "fungus garden" has grown up into one of the cables, that can corrode a lot of the wiring causing a lot of resistance.

4. On the other hand, if it spins nicely with the plugs in and no spark, it is time to hook up the spark. I would "snap" time it at NO MORE than 10 degrees advance before trying to crank it with the + wires hooked back onto the coil. I have seen more than one big block snap off a starter nose because the timing was too far advanced.

Hopefully it cranks fine and starts right up.

Lynn And Pete
Thanks the cranking problem is corrected ended up being a bad ground cable! Now the starter shim is a whole nother problem. Iv put the shims in took them out put half shin in took half shim out still grinding and sometimes starter turning and not even turning over the engine. Started to get irritated so I had to walk away.

Maybe this will help ... Craig

Another item just occurred to me -- make sure the starter mounting bolts are knurled bolts ... not just pick-a-nut bolts.

I found the starter grinding problem the mounting hole in the block is cracked! Not good as it’s a 69 512 block.

Damn -- not good! It can be fixed but the process is extensive. Back in the day one method was a lot of preheat and a good welder using high nickle rod ... Good Luck!

If your car has the cast iron starter end housing you can always find the end housing that has the 3 bolt style, and use all 3 to retain the starter, apparently Some early BB “may” be drilled for all three, you will have to check, you could always put a stud in the cracked hole too?

I used the 3 bolt end housing before on a mid year Corvette that had that issue, it’s still good after about 5 years.

Yea that’s the plan however for now I’m gonnna use a high torque mini starter that also uses three bolts with the stud. I am on the hunt for a starter or nose of one with the three holes if anyone has any knowledge of what year and what model had this nose.

I think 66-72 Corvette/Chevrolet used them, maybe truck applications too. Any starter rebuild shop should have access to it.
The third bolt is a non knurled type bolt as most blocks are not counterbored on third inner hole.

Also make sure you use the front starter to block brace, that’s very important.

So my block is counter bored for the knurled bolt on the third bolt should I use a knurled bolt or no?

You won't find a GM housing that will bolt up with 3 bolts. You can find a aftermarket starter that will. The cast iron housing with three bolts does not line up with the block.

This is the housing that will not bolt up to a big or small block using three bolts.

Well that’s weird, I did it on a friends 67 Corvette about 5 yrs ago and it worked fine, maybe it was a aftermarket part or block had been previously drilled & tapped, I don’t know.
I have another starter with that end housing, next time I go to shop I’m going to mock it up on a block and check it . I have 33 blocks at shop so it shouldn’t be a issue, Ha Ha.

On Rays Chevy Restoration site they say some early big blocks were drilled with this pattern.

Let me know when you find a block drilled with the "D" 3" spacing.

Will do.

I know I have a 69 “512” block as well as a “351” 67 435, as well as other rat motor blocks, I don’t think I have any early BB. but I have lots of early SB. I will mock it up and check if the hsg fits with all 3 bolts.

Will add to post at a later date, it may be awhile as I’m staying home lately to flatten the curve with this nasty virus.

I amended my post so it does not confuse any one regarding this.

I’ll measure mine shortly!

3 bolt starters are correct for early 409's and maybe early 60's corvettes I believe...…...google part# 1107233 starters - I'm looking for one now.

Yea mine is a early 69 512 block but the starter bolts are 3 1/4” apart!

That's the only way I can measure mine.

OUCH. That sucks big time.

The three hole bolt to the block snouts were used as early as 1957 on Turboglide equipt cars. Have also seen them also used on 409's.

I have an 1107687 starter listed as fitting a 59 and 60 348 Turboglide car. Just measured it and it has 2 7/8" center to center bolt pattern. As I recall, my old 57 Chevy block had the same spacing drilled on the bottom of the block. I had to plug one bolt hole and redrill the block to use a later aluminum starter snout when I was lightening things up on my old drag race stock class drag car.

I think this starter mounting thread may be getting a few bubbles off. The original post was a problem with a block mounted 427 starter engagement issue. Discussion talked about blocks with three mounting holes. Then the three bolt mounting got mixed up with the early bell housing three bolt mounting. Am I the only one to notice this? Craig

This aftermarket starter might be the fix you need. It will use all three block bolts. https://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stor...rsistYmm=false

Ok problems fixed. I ended up pulling the motor and welding up the crack. I started it a few times this afternoon and sounds like new. Thanks for all the help!