Very old musclecar title question.
 

Hi all,
I recently bought a 3,600 mile Black '67 RS/SS 396 ( 4N ) 4 speed Camaro. I've known this car since 1970. I knew all of the owners prior to me. Several are deceased, but the O.O. and 1 of the trio of 2nd owners are still with us and are filling in the blanks from before I met it. Owner #3 was my neighbor. I have assembled the cars history from day 1 and it has always been a SS/E car and has never been licensed or legally street driven. It has not raced since the 1970 season and for the most part hasn't been started or run since. It spent 42 years on jackstands and the last 7 in the family garage. The drivetrain is not original to the car and I know the disposition of the broken original parts. The condition of the car / chassis is exceptional. It's had 1 partial respray after the lettering was removed ('72ish) and has never had a ding or a dent. It's rust free, extremely unaltered or screwed with. The interior is as mint as one could expect. It has been preserved, has not been restored and it shows the wear that a very low mile drag car should. Fortunately it was saved from being cut. B.T.W. most of the miles were from the O.O. flat towing it to the track for part of the 1st year before he got a trailer. ( 210 miles every weekend )


Here is my question. The title is last dated December of 1971. Before I run to the courthouse and throw away that 50 years and end the never licensed streak I need to seek the opinion of others that deal with this sort of thing. Naturally the title and info have been scanned, so that wouldn't be lost. Is there a benefit to avoiding retitling and losing the paper title? I'm not interested in turning this into a driver. I am concerned about leaving this open if I don't change it. With the original drivetrain gone I understand this isn't the holy grail, but it's still fairly special. If it was still on the MSO or even from the O.O. there would not be a question. I want to be sure I mess this up. I'd appreciate some opinions.
Thanks, Dave

I had a similar situation when I bought my Cutlass from the OO.


The title/ownership was from 1976 and MTO wanted the actual paper copy of the ownership for their records..... but I wanted it for my records...….. Al (OO) told them he wasn't giving it to them because it was a special car and that should get to keep the document, and we would figure some other way out. Eventually I registered the car with Al at a different MTO and gave them an appraisal document as they accepted that document.


Similar situation but slightly different.


I think you want it registered in your name so you legally own it, or I sure would, and you want the original document/owner ship.


Ryan W31.

Agreed. The local DMV says they will return it after 5 if you ask at the time of transfer. In 25 years and 200 cars I've gotten 1 back. Not very good odds.

Well that sucks! I have always requested to get original titles back and they have always arrived in the mail in a day or two.

Maybe ask for it to be set aside for you to pick up at a later date??

They hold them for 5 years. You get them back, if requested when they purge the old files. I wish it were a few days.

I bought a 70 Z28 from the OO and received the original title. When I went to the Maryland MVA to title the car in my name, I asked if I could keep the original title. they photocopied the original and handed the original back to me. Likely different state-to-state, but doesn't hurt to ask.

I transferred the title from an original owner that was from 1956 a couple years ago. I asked DMV to keep it at time of transfer and they made a copy and let me keep the original. Likely different states have different rules, so it’s probably best to ask.

I’m in Michigan and they would not let me keep the original title from a 1973 javelin!

Another part of my question is there any reason to NOT transfer the title into my name due to the age and low mileage / special nature of the car. From the standpoint of the collectors world.

Just say the original title is gone, lost. Then get a duplicate title and keep the old one. I just did it a while back and it worked fine. Not sure how it would go state to state. Good Luck... Danny

Easiest and simplest would be just to sell me the car.

I agree with the saying the title is lost. That works in CA if the seller is alive and can sign the requisite form(s).

I agree, tell them you are applying for a new title because the old one is lost. I was fortunate to have the title stamped as an Historical Document for my former Burgundy 69 JL8 that is well documented in Jerry's book. Cool story, Dale went to Thomas Chevrolet in 1969 & there were 2 JL8's on the floor, the burgundy one & a white one, his father would not let him buy the car, so he waited until 1970 & ordered a 70 Chevelle SS. His best friend in Md, Woodrow Wilson, bought the burgundy JL8 & in 1971 or 72 Dale & Woodrow decided to trade cars for a month or so, ended up Woodrow loved the 70 Chevelle so much, Dale traded the Chevelle & $300 for the JL8. I am currently working on getting the car back in my possession.

That is some great history. I don't think Nebraska does the Historical document, but it is great that somebody does. We have had a bill in front of our Unicameral for years to eliminate titles for cars 30 years & older. It just doesn't seem to get enough support.

That’s crazy, I’m in Michigan also and they let me keep the above title. Must be there is no rule that they have to keep it, probably up to individual agent??

That’s crazy, I’m in Michigan also and they let me keep the above title. Must be there is no rule that they have to keep it, probably up to individual agent??

Exactly, my local SOS let me keep mine as well, they wrote VOID on the back.

In NY, no titles before '73.? I had the original PA title to my 70 L78 and just told NY DMV "I didn't have it". They told me that they would run the VIN for liens or stolen's and if it all panned out (it did)... they just sent me the NY registration and I kept the PA title.

That’s crazy, I’m in Michigan also and they let me keep the above title. Must be there is no rule that they have to keep it, probably up to individual agent??

----That's kind of what I thought, Vern, but it's been quite awhile since I had a title that I wanted to keep. I do think they stamp the title they give back to you with something, but can't remember what......Bill S

Just for giggles, I dug out my 1956 original title and other than the seller filling out his part of the transaction and the same for me as buyer, there’s nothing the state did to the title upon releasing it to me.

This transaction was several years ago before the pandemic, so that didn’t influence anything.

As we suspected, there’s likely no DMV policy and worth asking the agent for it if you want to keep it. In my case it’s a neat piece as there’s quite a bit of other paperwork, including the original Certificate of Origination from the manufacturer.

Just for giggles, I dug out my 1956 original title and other than the seller filling out his part of the transaction and the same for me as buyer, there’s nothing the state did to the title upon releasing it to me.

This transaction was several years ago before the pandemic, so that didn’t influence anything.

As we suspected, there’s likely no DMV policy and worth asking the agent for it if you want to keep it. In my case it’s a neat piece as there’s quite a bit of other paperwork, including the original Certificate of Origination from the manufacturer.

Massachusetts doesn’t let you keep the original title. When I bought my 1000 mile Biscayne it had the original title so I sold the car on a bill of sale to a friend that lived in Maine which is a no title state. He registered it then sold it back to me with the registration from Maine. I took it to the DMV in Massachusetts and registered it that way and got a new title in my name . Keeping the original title.

I’m a firm believer in titling every vehicle I own into my name. In Maryland, the latest title printed trumps any previously printed one, so if you bought a car and never titled it, the previous owner could apply for a duplicate, and legally, they now own the car (again). Also, let’s say you buy a car and don’t title it into your name…you decide to sell it…buyer wants to write you a check, but your name is nowhere on any documents…buyer stops payment on check…see where I’m going here?
The last Camaro I owned was a 900 mile ex-SuperStocker. I spent a lot of time tracking down copies of titles/ownership to prove mileage and made copies for MVA and my own records. I did title that car and the miles were stated correctly on the latest title.
I guess ‘cause I’m in the car business, I tend to cover all bases because I’ve seen about every titling scam known to man.

Those are my concerns too. I know full well that allowing anyone to see the car whether in private or at a show risks someone seeing and noting the VIN and pulling some shit. Unless there was a compelling argument for keeping it under that 1971 title I will be transferring it into my name. Yours is the answer I was looking for. Thank You !

If you tell the DMV the title is lost, the O.O. will have to go and apply for a duplicate title. BTW, since it was never licensed it is possible the DMV won't even have it in their system anymore. Depends upon the state, but they often purge old records when implementing new computer systems. I own a towing company and deal a lot with my state DMV on classic "abandoned" vehicles where the titles have been lost or the car was sold many times and the title never transferred at each sale. More often than not, a car that age that hasn't been licensed for years will not be in the DMV system.