NJ Steves Pit Viper Revival
 

(The first portion of this thread is located in the Member's Rides section. It's here if anyone is interested in the first half of the story: https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=83108 )


I pulled the cover off my own garage find today and decided to do an oil change. The last one was 9 years and 194 miles ago. After a brief battery charge she started right up. The oil that came out looked and smelled fine, of course. All ten quarts. And I was reminded how the wonderful oil filter set up was designed to apply liquid rust proofing right onto the passenger side frame rail so it can run all the way down both ends of the frame rail, avoiding all sorts of strategically placed drip pans, rags, and cardboard.

She has all of 8,143 miles on her now. The boy and I then took the old car out to the local cruise night and frightened the locals. Even though I got there at 3:00 PM, a guy already grabbed my favorite parking spot with his 2017 ZL1 Camaro that he just bought.

I forgot how stupid fast this car was. Jeez. It is a menace to society. If this doesn't get the boy in the mood to start learning how to drive a manual transmission, nothing will. He was too busy snapchatting photos of the car to his friends, to be watching how I was shifting. Maybe I have to snapchat videos of my shifting technique to him. That should get his attention.

I got the oil analysis results from the 9 year old oil (only has 191 miles on it). Looks like that old adage about having to change your oil every year before you store it, is something of an old wive's tale. Since there is no moisture, corrosion, fuel or coolant present in this sample after almost a decade in a non-climate controlled garage, and running it maybe once or twice a year.

Here's what nine year old oil looks like when analyzed:

That is interesting info.. thx for sharing.

Steve, I got something for you, I did the auto shows, I got a die cast at press in 1996, it’s blue w/ white stripes. Looks just like your Viper. It’s a Racing Champions die cast, hot wheels size, but it says Chrysler Financial on it, Not sold in stores. If you want it it yours. Looking to give it to a Viper guy. It comes with some kind matching badge too. Throw me the ship or buy me a beer lol. Leme know.

ive got the reverse color combo of yours. Ive never been able to really decide I like it. it is so different than any other car I have. weird how I feel like im sitting sideways in the drivers seat. crazy power like driving on ice. but it sure does get the looks going down the road.

just realized I posted on this thread I meant to post on your current one.

Me too lol.

I'll take it! I'll PM you.

Trying to repost some of the original photos that fodobucket lost.

No good deed goes unpunished!

I have been driving the old viper to the gym every morning for the past couple weeks (when the weather was good) just to use up the 24 gallons of two year old gas in the tank. I was down to half a tank after going 90 miles so far. (7 mpg?)

Last week my son finally decided to ask me to teach him how to drive a manual transmission. Since he has eyes on getting this vehicle one day he better know how to drive it. We took it around the neighborhood and he didn't do half bad. The funny thing about using this car to teach manual transmissionship (if that's a word?) is that it has soooo much torque, you can't really stall it out by letting the clutch up too abruptly. So he did reasonably well for the mile he drove it.

Then comes this morning when I was going to go and fill her up with 93 premium after siphoning out the old gas/Stabil mix. I went to push in the clutch and it felt very low and ineffective. And it wouldn't go in to gear with the car running.

So I did a little research and it is either one of two things: The clutch master cylinder on the firewall...or the throwout bearing slave cylinder in the bellhousing. One is a half hour job and the other is a 8 hour job.

I opened the master cylinder filler cap and it was empty of fluid inside. I added some and could see it took a while to fill so it must have gone somewhere. No puddles under car anywhere. I tried bleeding the system but it didn't get any better.

I ordered both parts from amazon and we will see in week which one it was. I'm doing the master cylinder first since it only took a few minutes to get it out of the car although I did have to grind down an old 5/8" open end wrench to make the tool to release the fluid coupling at the bellhousing.

I did perform an autopsy on the old clutch master cylinder and a lot of black liquid came out (versus the clear fluid that came out of the bellhousing bleeder screw.) So maybe it is just the master cylinder that pooped out. But you know how my luck goes.

Fingers crossed!

The new clutch cylinder arrived yesterday from rockauto and I installed it today with a little help from the wife sitting in the driver's seat after she got home from work. YAY! That was the problem. So now I can return the throwout bearing slave assembly to amazon when it arrives.

And if you're wondering what that little plastic bottle zip-tied to the footwell-box near the clutch cylinder is, it's a homemade catch can for the power steering pump vent. Dodge in their infinite wisdom had a cap on top of the power steering pump that had a vented nipple pointing straight up. This made for interesting times when the car was driven in anger and the power steering fluid heated up, which then would geyser upwards and then onto the headers and left front brake assembly. So I just attached a length of fuel line and routed it to that catch can. Problem solved!

Oh well, so much for hoping the leak was that simple...I checked under the car today and there's a puddle of fresh brake fluid under the bellhousing leaking from the throwout bearing slave cylinder.

DOH! and I yesterday I cancelled the shipment from Amazon before arrival and now Amazon shows none available. Same with all the local parts stores.

I just spent several hours hunting down another one (LUK LSC134) slave/bearing assembly. Found it on ebay.

You can find the slave cylinder without the bearing at Rockauto but the Vipers are very finicky about the bearing installed heaight so the factory demands you install a preassembled bearing and slave assembly. Oh and did I mention the NOS Mopar bearing assembly is $390? No thanks, I'll use the LUK version which is the one the factory used anyway.

So the wait for arrival starts again.

I'll start pulling the trans out tomorrow. It least I dont have to totally remove it, I can pull it back and let it sit on the trans jack and then remove the bearing/slave assembly.

Got the transmission "detached." I won't say removed because I just pulled it back far enough to get the slave cylinder and throwout bearing off the input shaft. This way the transmission is still in an aerial holding pattern that is a straight forward shot into the bellhousing.

Of course my 15 year old Harbor Freight transmission jack failed as I was about to attempt the uncoupling. Luckily the floor jack was still under the engine and was holding the entire drivetrain up at the time. I remembered it failed before when I was pulling the transmission out of Grampa's Lincoln three years ago so it was about time to run back to HF to get another one. Luckily they had it in stock with a 10% off coupon today. Too bad they dont just sell a new cylinder for these damn things.

Anyway, you can see that the slave cylinder did in fact fail which seems to be a common occurence on Vipers from what I have seen while googling the interwebs.

I figure that in 28 years of ownership (which includes 8,000 hard miles in the first 5 years and then over two decades of sitting idle), this is the first actual drivetrain component to fail. The only other parts that have gone bad are one wiper motor two years ago and the grey flocked, fuzzy dash finish that decomposes on all Gen 1 Vipers.

I used several bottles of brake clean so far to flush and wipe away the residue inside the bellhousing area. I never had a problem with the clutch and it appears that all the leakage was travelling toward the transmission and away from the clutchplate itself. When I closely examined the interior of the clutch plate it was dry and surface rusty looking with no evidence that the fluid got between the disc and the plate. I don't want to replace the clutch assembly since that's another item that the aftermarket does not seem to get right (from other googling research) with the majority of the clutch kits mistakenly including a C5 Corvette disc instead of the 24 spline Viper disc. And when they get the disc right they get the installed height wrong. One guy had to pull his transmission 4 times to get the clutch working properly and in the end gave up and used his original clutch plate and disc.

I understand the reasoning behind that style of slave cyl. I just don't think the pros outweigh the cons. I needed to change the clutch slave on an old BMW last week. Took about 10 minutes.

Having to pull the trans is a huge pain in the butt on many cars.

It's been a crazy few days. I have ordered and reordered the slave cylinder four times now. It seems that every time I order what is listed as "in stock and ready to ship" it turns out to be a "we will charge your card and then look and see if our suppliers have it" scenario. That goes for Amazon, Ebay, Rockauto, Advance Auto...Still waiting on refunds from three of them after they cancelled my orders unilaterally.

I supposedly have the throwout bearing itself due for delivery tomorrow from rockauto but I ran into all sorts of issues getting a slave cylinder. Finally I reached out to a Viper parts specialist who recently commented on a posting on one of the Viper enthusiast websites that he sponsors. He said he had a couple of the original Mopar complete slave cylinder assemblies with bearing. (Chrysler current PN5037357 & original PN4642581) He pretty much bought up the last few units that were still available before they went obsolete years ago from Dodge. So he is shipping me the real deal factory part. It cost around $250 (bearing included) delivered.

The funny thing about the Viper parts guy (Bill Brobst) http://www.viperpartsrack.com/index....te=common/home is that I met him at the First Viper Owner's invitational back in 1994. My newly-wedded wife and I went to this event in order to celebrate our first wedding anniversary. (my idea of coure). She even got a "good sport" award for attending from Dodge management. The award still hangs in the garage. :-)

Anyway, Bill said in his email "It was actually HER that I remembered first!!"

I had to laugh at that comment. And then he sent me a link to the original Dodge video that they did to document the crazy event. The wife, the car, and I are featured in several sections of the video including at 32:20, 35:04 and 36:26.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGJk...vikPerformance

The new slave cylinder and throwout bearing arrived yesterday. I was taking a close look at the original 1992 vintage slave and bearing and saw something interesting. See if you see what I see. :-)

And the shiny, NOS Mopar slave and bearing. No manufacturer logo on the plastic bearing carrier.

Well it took some time by myself but I managed to get the slave cylinder, throwout bearing, and aftermarket 48-inch bleeder relocation hose installed. It took several hours to get the transmission back in place, manhandling it on my own, but by 6:30 PM it was bolted back up and the clutch system was fully bled with the help of my Award-Winning Wife. Tomorrow the rest of the hardware gets bolted back up and it will be time for a test drive.

And here's her award from 1994:

I got to use some of my old parts that were hidden in the basement. I remembered having a few of these but this was the last package from back in the day. Look at the date on the package. May, 1992

And just like the children's book, "If you Give A Mouse A Cookie", I had to do something else to the car since it was up on jackstands. I decided to flush and refill the cooolant. I had replaced it in 2003 or so, but the car didn't go anywhere - maybe 200 miles since then? So I let everything drain from the radiator petcock over night. It was pristine and green though only tested to be about -10 degrees for antifreeze effectiveness on the hydrometer. I got 15-1/2 quarts out in to the catch basin. I am now in my second day of attempting to burp the system of all the excess air. I only got around 14 quarts back in. I have been refilling it via the heater core valve line. (It's a 93, remember?) But I still had a bunch of air in the system on startup and the gauge went to about 210 before I shut it off. No heat out of the heater core. I let it cool down and the then was able to put another half a quart in. I started it and it hung around 195. (Still too hot for this car). The next day I used a tall funnel (about 18' tall, so the coolant going in was higher than any portion of the cooling system.

Those crazy heater core lines are not the highest point in the cooling system. The feed and return hoses drop down behind the engine and then rise up higher then the heater core inlets in order to reach the thermostat housing at the back of the block. I even tried lowering the back of the car to ground level in order to get the radiator higher. Not sufficient. I was able to get more coolant in today for a total of around 15-1/4 quarts. (Capacaity is 16 quarts). At least now the heater works and I can see the heat readings on my infrared heat gun. I test drove it and the temp was around 190 and I could see the needle fluctuate to 180 when the thermostat would open. There is still air in the upper radiator hose and you can hear it when you squeeze. I will let it cool down and try to add more tomorrow.

I do remember twenty years ago doing this and it also took several tries over several days to get it burped of all the air.

Another day, another burp-athon-apalooza-fest of the V-baby. I got another quart in today! Took almost 30 minutes using the measuring cup filled with around 1/8th cup of coolant at a time. First, I popped the radiator cap off, and topped it off with around a half cup til it was at the top. Then I put the cap back on and disconnected the heater hose line and rotated it upwards. I also added a four-inch section of heater hose to the heater core nipple so I could see the level rise and fall without it just dribbling out. With the little funnel, I just trickled in an 1/8 cup at a time into the heater hose, watching it slowly drain down the funnel, until I went through an entire gallon of 50/50 mix. I reconnected everything and started her up again. Once warmed up the gauge hung around the 185 zone after a drive around the block.

BTW, this is one of the early 92/93s that still had the yellow zone on the gauge. It brings back such entertaining memories of back in the day driving the car in Florida heat with the gauge hovering at the right side in the yellow/red zone. After numerous complaints by southern Viper owners, Dodge sent out a very detailed TSB that essentially said "Ignore the yellow mark on the gauge. Your car isnt really running hot, You're imagining this, Pay no attention to the ViperTech behind the curtain with the infrared heat gun that indicates your radiator is running at 225 degrees..." yada-yada

Dodge in their infinite wisdom removed the yellow marking on the gauge for 1994 (and upgraded the radiator...and electric fans...and shroud...and added more coolant capacity...but that's just a coincidence)

Last day of coolant filling and rechecking. She only took half a cup today and was finally full. Started her up and took her for a drive. Ran steady at 175 to 180 (I think). When driving at operating temperature the needle sits on the left slash of the three middle hashmarks. Hard to actually tell the real running temperature since the gauge starts at 0 and goes to 250. In the middle of the gauge are three hash marks with a "190" under them. But if you cut 250 in half, it would presumable be 175 at the halfway point in the gauge? When I use the infra-red thermometer, the temps on the heater hoses, return lines, and radiator hoses range from 140 to 190. So, anyway, I'm done with the coolant refresh.

And you can see the infamous yellow zone on the gauge that Dodge decided to remove for 1994 so owner's couldn't complain of the cars running in the gauge's hot zone any more.

On to the brake fluid flush next. I used Castrol SRF back when I last changed it in 2,000 and it looks absolutely pristine in the master cylinder at the moment. Very expensive but it is the best stuff on the planet when it comes to highest temperature boiling point. Back when I used to race the car, everything else I tried would boil and lead to brake pedal fade and air in the system after a few laps. This stuff lasted the longest under the Florida track heat.

Hand-polished the extra set of rims for the Viper today. I have a new set of tires coming in hopefully next week. Michelin is the only company still making the rear tires in the correct 17" size. $400 a tire! No one else makes them (other than Hoosier)

I figure it's time for new shoes since the newest set I have is 28 years old.

These are the original BFG R-1 racing tires from the first year they were introduced in Viper sizes. 275/40ZR17 and 335/35ZR17. We did the some of the first testing for BFG in the Viper sizes, with the SCCA Solo 1 and 2 racing we did back then.

Before and after. (Dogs for scale). And cat because he liked seeing his own reflection. That is the true test of a polishing job - if an apathetic cat will stop to look at himself.

I bled the brakes over the weekend. All the 20 year-old Castrol SRF that came out was still crystal clear. Amazing stuff. It's DOT 4 with the highest dry/wet boiling point (594/518 degrees) you can find.

I remember back when we were racing and I tried various brake fluids, you had to bleed the brakes after every run because the fluid would boil and make the pedal spongy. After I switched to the SRF, you could go the whole day of racing and wouldn't have a problem til the end of the day.

UPS delivered the new set of tires this morning. I just got back from picking the wheels and tires up after getting them mounted and balanced. The new Michelins Pilots barely took any weight to balance them. Around a half ounce per wheel.

New spark plugs arrived from rockauto today. Got the Bosch 9656 double iridiums. They were $4.96 each with discount! Finally replacing the vintage Splitfires I installed way back in 1993. (Yeah, I know, the follies of youth).

I got the passenger-side bank of plugs out. They actually look really nice for 8,000 miles and 27 years old, give or take a year. Burn pattern on the electrodes looks nice.

----Looks just like our grey guy! He was a foodie and couldn't stay away from anything edible. He was a large sized version of yours and, sadly, has passed.We affectionatly referred to him as Fat Bastard!.....Bill S

He actually thinks he is a dog but no one has the heart to tell him otherwise. He ignores our other two cats (who shun him anyway), and he spends all day lounging around with the two dogs. When they come in from doing their duty in the back yard, he sits right down next to them and demands the same dog treats that they get. He just aint right.

Speak of the devil...

Got all the plugs changed yesterday. It sure is fun trying to get your hands under/around the headers to reattach the spark plug terminals. I guess my hands got bigger with age.

Took her out for a spin today and she runs very crisply with the new plugs. Also rides really nicely on the new Michelins and my old polished rims. Very smooth and not as "hocky-puck on ice-ish" as the 28 year-old XGTZ's.

Today I also spent an hour pulling the sidepipe shields off because I heard the mufflers squeeking and the outlets moved when I went to jiggle them. Turns out that the large clamp holding the head pipe to the muffler had loosened since I last looked at them in 2000. The Borla XR-1 racing mufflers were installed when I put the headers on in 1999. Prior to that, I ran stock manifiolds with another set of XR-1s.

Back in the day I used the factory exhaust mount upgrade kit #4897970AA that was listed in the TSB from decades ago. My recept file shows I bought the kit in July, 1997 and it cost $26.97 at the time.

That kit was made available by Dodge because the 1992's and 1993's up to VIN #105 used two-piece exhaust manifolds and those crazy coil springs and shoulder washers & bolts to mount the exhaust directly to the frame. Gee what could be bad about that? Everybody likes to hear a V10 basso-profundo rumble with some high-pitched squeeky contralto to compliment it. Think about it: mounting an engine/trans to the chassis with rubber motor mounts and then solidly mounting the side pipes to the frame rails with spring-loaded brackets could only lead to loosening/breakage at the exhaust mounting points.

Just for trivia info, the 1993 cars prior to VIN #105 (this car is Vin #102, built in January 1993), were essentially continuations of the initial run of 1992s that were built up til the end of December, 1992. I had originally wanted a 1992 as a project car but the earliest that the New Mack assembly line could schedule the build on this car was in January which made it technically a 1993 model.

The early 1993's used the 1992 two-piece exhaust manifolds and the solid exhaust mounts with springs and bolts. After 1993 VIN #105 they went to the single piece manifolds with the flex pipe to attach the cat/muffler assembly and the upgraded/isolated hanger system.

The 1992's and early 1993's also had an external radio antenna, and a fully circular fuel filler hatch with a thumb cutout in the quarter panel instead of the filler cap.

The later 93's were updated with a windshield-mounted antenna and the new style fuel filler hatch lid with a thumb cutout in it and no indent in the quarter panel. From what I recall in conversations with the assembly line people, the fuel filler hatch/quarter panel and the windshield-mounted antenna were running changes on the line with no set VIN number start point. Other running changes included the moving of the battery box from underneath the trunk to the wheelwell, and the change in the number of air relief cutouts in the rear valance. These were things I found out during my tour at the Viper assembly plant when I watched my car getting built in Jan, 1993.

Some details of the aforementioned idiosynchracies of the early 1993 cars.

Back in 1999 was the last time I had my 93 on a dyno. It put out 404 hp and 471 lbft of torque with SVS headers and Borla XR1 mufflers on a chassis dyno. The prior exhaust was the two-piece stock manifolds and no cats, with 3" Borla XR1 mufflers.

While the overall power output numbers were similar, there were improvements in the lower range with the headers. Compare the red line (with headers) to the blue line (with factory manifolds). I guess it shows how well the factory two-piece manifolds flowed: overall they were only 2 horsepower and 11 pounds of torque, less than the headers!!!

I attached the original dyno sheet (ignore the green line and the "new computer" comment: that related to the dyno shop's laptop computer which crashed and altered the existing data files and correction factor)

Over the weekend I was moving all the old Viper rims and tires into the basement and cleaning up and sorting various Viper stuff. I found my box of slide albums from when I worked at Mopar Muscle Magazine back in 1990 to 94: I located the looseleaf notebooks full of the pages and pages of slides taken during my visit to the New Mack Assembly Plant in January, 1993. Hundreds of slides. Now I have to figure out a way to scan them into digital form. Anyone recommend a particular scanner device for this? I may have several hundred slides to do.

During the tour of the plant they told me not to shoot certain things (upcoming model stuff) but gave me free reign for others. For example, I shot a lot of photos of just racks and bins of parts so future restorers could know the exact finishes/dcals that were present at the time the cars were built.

One of the interesting issues that has popped up in the Viper community is the VIN #105 cutoff point for the two-piece to one-piece exhaust manifolds.

Here are the pages from the December, 1995 parts book. See the notations on part #6, manifolds. Interesting to see that the left and right manifold are the same part for either side for 92 and early 93, just the lower extension was different.

Different intake manifolds, too, based on the same VIN break.

Holy Crapoly, I wound up falling down a rabbit hole, here. I just did a random search of prior listed 1993's on Bring a Trailer, ebay, google, etc. I found 35 of them ranging from Vin 55 (a January 93 built, heavily modified, Hennessey car) to VIN 1040 (which is 15 cars from the last 93 VIN#1055) of the total 1,043 cars built in 1993.

It seems that Dodge obviously did not build the cars in VIN order. (something I now remember from seeing cars on the line).

I made a spread sheet with all sorts of variables, including one or two-piece manifolds, fender or windshield mounted antenna, notched fuel filler lid or quarter panel, "Viper" or "R/T-10" labeled calipers, yellow mark on the temp gauge or not, battery under the trunk or fender. I also noted the date of manufacture from the door tag when available in the listing.

How is this for crazyness: the earliest one-piece manifold I found was VIN 500 built in July 1993. And the latest two-piece manifold car was 903 built in May 1993.

So it looks like there was a jumble of various previously VIN-assigned cars with high numbers/low numbers being built in random order during the model year - maybe due to defects or parts availability? Who knows, but here is what I found:

Do you notice the interesting trends? The carry-over 1992 style, two-piece exhaust manifold/frame-mounted mufflers are always present in conjunction with a fender-mounted antenna, trunk mounted battery, and round fuel filler lid with the thumb depression in the quarter panel.

By the way, in case you're wondering why anyone would care about this crazy minutiae, I guess I am into weird details.

I imagine the 1960's assembly lines were the same way. People 50 years later are trying to document whether a car was legitimately made during a specific batch of builds (such as COPO orders). Well, here is a semi-recent example (if you can consider 30 years ago, recent).

Also for some reason there is a big premium being paid by Viper enthusiasts for "Antenna Cars" which are the 1992s and the early 1993's which have the fender mounted antenna. And, which according to the Chrysler parts records, were thought to all be vin #105 and below, but I guess I just stumbled across an anomaly that conforms they could be any VIN up through the entire production sequence of 1043 cars, only that they had to have been built between January and May 1993.

Voila! Someone on the Viper website found this original 1993 newsletter entry from Dodge that explains the VIN anomoly - VINs were preassigned and they built them in geographicly based batches so the could ship them 6 at a time to specific regions. So there you have it!

I decided to move on to the next maintenance project on my old car: the sagging headliner. This hardtop has been on the car since back in late 1994 or so.

In early 1994 we did some of the preliminary high speed testing of the upcoming accessory hardtop with a mockup that Dodge supplied us with. The unit they sent us was a very heavy, solid fiberglass version of what later became the factory optional unit. Sadly, I had to send the "heavy" top back after we used it for several months of racing. It really helped the aerodynamics of the car at the time and I was sad to see it go. That prototype hardtop was smooth underneath and had no headliner at all.

Eventually I was able to get a regular production hardtop from the guys at Dodge to replace it and had it painted to match the car. That's the top you see in these photos.

The headliner started sagging last year (or that's when I actually noticed it). I was wondering how the thing is actually attached since the later versions use some push pins around the perimeter. This one is simply glued into place around the edges and in the center and that's all that keeps it up there. It uses an ABS plastic form that is approximately 42"x25". The headliner is spray glued to it and wrapped underneath. With some gentle prying it came off very easily as the green adhesive holding it to the underside of the top was very brittle with age.

After ripping off the fabric, I spent around an hour removing the nasty foam residue. It was just powder and actually scrubbed off by hand leaving all that headliner adhesive remaining on the ABS. Then came the hard work. The best stuff to remove that adhesive is actually 3M Headliner Adhesive Cleaner/Remover #08987. Spray it on a small section at a time and let it soak, then scrub with a rough cloth. It rolls the residue up into little balls like rubber cement and then you can brush it away. This stuff seems to be the least aggressive type of solvent and works specificaly on headliner adhesive versus using something like lacquer thinner which is very aggressive and can damage the plastic material itself.

I have ordered a yard of automotive-grade, black headliner material which should be in this week sometime. (fingers crossed)

Both sides of the headliner insert before cleaning.

And here's how she looks topless. That roof has been on there for over 26+ years, now.