69 Camaro Fast Ratio Manual Steering Box
 

Hello,
Looking for an original Saginaw fast ratio manual steering box for a 1969 Camaro. This is the manual box that is 2 1/4 to 2 1/2 turns lock to lock. Thank you... Bob

Any particular date code or range?

Bob, I really don't think there is such a beast. My 28k mile Z has what I believe to be the original box, pitman arm and steering knuckles. I will check it out next time I have it on the lift.

I am fine if someone wants to correct me.

"fast ratio" was a relative term in 1969. May have been quicker than the standard manual steering car. It is a far cry from the 90's IROC box or WS6 box.

Edgemontvillage, Date code not important. Just want an original box in useable condition, if I can find one. Thank you... Bob

Lynn, I was just going to reply to Edgemontvillage when your message posted. I've done some checking around and it seems there may have been a manual box with a faster gear ratio. We'll see if anything turns up! Thanks

Apparently there is such a beast. Extremely rare.

Best explanation I found is here:

There are two measures for steering ratio; gear and overall. Power steering was variable ratio, new for ’69.

#1. The standard [exc Z/28] manual steering ratio was 24.8:1 [gear] 28.3:1 [overall]. 4.8 turns L-L. Standard production steering gear, 5.25” pitman arm, long steering arms.

#2. The standard Z/28 manual steering ratio was 24.8:1 [gear] 21.4:1 [overall]. 3.5 turns L-L. Standard production steering gear, 5.75” pitman arm, short steering arms.

#3. The standard [exc Camaro SS and Z/28] power steering ratio was 16.0:1-12.4:1 [gear] 15.5:1-12.8:1 [overall]. 2.16 turns L-L. Standard production power steering gear, 5.25” pitman arm, long steering arms.

#4. The standard Camaro SS and Z/28 power steering ratio was 16.0:1-12.4:1 [gear] 14.5:1-10.8:1 [overall]. 2.06 turns L-L. Standard production power steering gear, 5.75” pitman arm, short steering arms.

2,161 Camaros were built with N44 special steering equipment. What that means is an overall steering ratio faster than standard equipment for the application, not a specific ratio. N44 as a discrete option is rare, only 2,161 orders.

N44 ordered on a manual steering Camaro, exc Z/28: same as #2.

N44 ordered [incl Z/28 & SS] on a power steering Camaro: same as #4.

N44 ordered on a manual steering Z/28: 20:1 [gear] 17.9:1 [overall]. 2.9 turns L-L. Optional steering gear, 5.75” pitman arm, short steering arms.

There were 101,478 Camaros built with manual steering, 141,607 built with power steering. Production numbers indicate 83% of N44 optioned cars were not Z/28s: 1,796.

That means 99.85% of 1969 Camaros were built with standard production steering gears.

Many thanks to William for putting that info together.

It is post #16 in this thread: http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=18375.15

Also explained here (but without production numbers):

http://www.camaros.org/suspen.shtml#steer

I just knew my car wasn't 2.5 turns lock to lock.

Even at that, I will probably install the PS set up I have, as my age and two total shoulder joint replacements are making my manual steering cars less fun.

PM Sent

Edgemontvillage, PM received and replied to. Thank you!

Lynn, that is a good read with lots of good information. Thank you for posting the links!

Had a good lead, but not the correct box. Still looking... Thanks

Still looking, Thank You!!

Bob, I may have one off my early 69 Nova SS its in attic of my shop, writing myself a reminder to check it this evening- I'll have to do it quick supposed to be 108 today

Fast steering on a nova?

Thanks for all of the replies and information received. Still looking... Thanks 626-506-7508 Bob

I just saw this one on Ebay. I'm not sure if this is what you were looking for.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/22516063279...Bk9SR7LbqZ_oYA

Thanks for the tip, and the link! At 5 1/2 turns Lock to Lock I believe that is a standard ratio manual steering box and not the fast ratio, but I'll contact the seller to clarify. Thanks again... Bob

You also will need the correct steering arm to go with that box Bob.

Still looking for the Fast Ratio Manual Steering box. All leads appreciated and considered!!

Thanks again... Bob 626-506-7508

Still looking for the Fast Ratio Manual Steering box. All leads appreciated and considered!!

Thanks again... Bob

69 Camaro Quick Ratio Manual Steering Box
 

Still looking for the Fast Ratio Manual Steering box. All leads appreciated and considered!!

Thanks again... Bob

Are you sure they made one i have had a bunch of them and none a 21/2. turn

Sir, the way I understand it, is that N44 manual steering came with short steering arms, long pitman arm, and a quicker ratio manual steering box. I've seen posted that maybe only about 1,500 production cars ordered. I may be wrong, but others have posted it does exist. Any leads or additional information appreciated! Thanks... Bob

I have never seen one; but the CRG article leads me to believe that unicorn DOES exist.

There are a few Saginaw boxes that would work if it does not need to be numbers matching. Only the well informed would know the difference.

1990+ Jeep Grand Cherokee has a fast ratio and so do the 94-96 Impala SS cars, should bolt right in.
I'm not a "Camaro guy", but I had a few C3's. The box in the C3 is the same as above so I think the camaro box will be the same as a C3...

Only 2,161 Camaros were built with optional N44 special steering equipment. What N44 means is an overall steering ratio faster than standard equipment for the application, not a specific ratio.

The standard Z/28 manual steering ratio was 24.8:1 [gear] 21.4:1 [overall]. 3.5 turns L-L. Standard production steering gear, 5.75” pitman arm, short steering arms.

N44 ordered on a manual steering Z/28: 20:1 [gear] 17.9:1 [overall]. 2.9 turns L-L. Optional steering gear, 5.75” pitman arm, short steering arms.

The January 1970 Car Life had an excellent tech article about the 1969 Penske T/A Camaros. There was a comment about steering:

"The optional quick 17:1 steering [RPO N44] is used, and with the big tires it is horrendously stiff."

Fairly certain one of the Z/28s I owned back in the day was one of the 365 or so built with N44. Very unpleasant to drive, near impossible to park.

Agree with everything William said. My Z is getting less and less fun to drive the older I get. I have a complete GM PS setup for it, and will probably install it this winter. And I DON'T even have the N44!!!

What I find funny is this: "....with the big tires it is horrendously stiff."

I have an E70 15 tire sitting in my garage right now, still in the wrapper. Every time I walk by, I think: man, by modern standards this looks almost like a motorcycle tire.

I get it; in 1969 70 series was "big".

What they meant by 'big tires' were racing tires used in competition.

In the famous Car and Driver Z/28 v. Mustang test, T/A competitor Sam Posey was chosen to drive both cars. The Z/28 had power steering; the Mustang did not. He greatly preferred power steering; Penske tried it for a few races but removed it due to durability issues.

The test was in the July 1968 issue. Interesting, the Mustang arrived with F60 x 15 Goodyear tires on 7" wheels.

I have that magazine. One of the best test articles of all time. I still get it out and read it every few years. The Mustang was a "tunnel port" 302 that never made it into production.

Thanks Gentlemen, for the additional information. I too am getting old and if I ever find one might wish I hadn't!! I'm going to keep looking though. Thanks again...