Harrison radiator questions
 

Questions for the Harrison radiator professionals here. The consensus is atleast for the 1970 model year that harrison radiator drain valves were painted with the radiators true or false. Also were there different vendors who supplied drain valves for rhe radiators? I have 2 of the same cars with the same radiators. One has a fluted drain with outward facing tabs to turn the other is not fluted with the same outward facing tabs to turn. Can anyone help with these answers with what's correct?"

Can anyone help me with this particular answer? Im sure someone here probably has experience with this answer. Thanks in advance.

Hi Ron,
My experience with survivor 1970 Chevrolet radiators is that the petcock or drain valve was installed after paint. This is due to not seeing any evidence of paint on this part on the 70 Chevelles I've had the opportunity to inspect and service.
Another part that i have had the opportunity to study was an NOS radiator for a 70 A body that although painted from the factory had a cardboard plug where the drain plug would be, so that could explain it if Harrison shipped the radiator to the assembly plants the same way? The only 70 Camaro radiators I've had the opportunity to inspect did not have the barrel feature that is typical on 70 A body radiators. Don't know why they would be different but appear that some at least were.
The flare on the handle of the valve should be facing the engine.
Hope this helps.

Thanks Chris.

Here's a picture from my 1970 big block Harrison radiator if it helps.

Thanks for your picture, Are you somewhat positive that's the original drain valve? I have 2 1970 L78 camaros both have the same forward facing valve tabs correct for a 1970. But one has the barrel flutted drain like yours and the other is without the barrel drain. Most likely there may have been different vendors for the valves. That one of the answers I'm trying to sort out. Also if they were painted. I feel they were installed when the radiator was installed in the car. So no paint should applied when properly restored. Also paint will prevent it from turning on the threads to open properly. GM always protected parts to prevent a service problems.

Here's a photo from a 22k original mile Norwood 04B 1970 Z28 formerly owned by Jack Seymour. Clearly has black paint on the petcock and the "ears" face the radiator. Original pic and zoomed-in pic.

I guess this throws a curve ball into this answer. So now we may be looking at 3 different drain valves for 1970. And a car that has one with black paint. Are there any pictures of Charley's former low milage 1970 Ls6 chevelle that show a drain valve?

I guess everybody commenting here is assuming that the radiators shipped from Harrison NY were shipped painted and NOT painted at the final assembly plant?

Multiple questions here Phil for the correct style drain valves. We're there multiple vendors since there are different types? Were they painted with the radiators? Were the drains installed during assembly line process and not painted.

Were they? It would seem unlikely as all the radiators were black and they required some corrosion protection before installation. It would seem that a dedicated paint line would be easier to install at Harrison than at each of the assembly plants.

Good question. The higher value parts that were supposed to be painted (e.g. starters, horns, radiators, etc), were painted by the component plants. They were responsible for the quality of the part and didn't want paint on the threads, etc. Commodity parts (brackets, pulleys, etc) could be painted by the assembly plants. I can't think of any exceptions to that off the top of my head.
There had to be some decisions made by purchasing - some of the pulleys were plated and not painted.

I was in the Lockport plant years ago. It's been a long time, but IIRC, they were painting all radiators. That's why there top rails have the hanger holes in them.

Kurt, excellent. You are solid on the trail of the truth. I am working through the investigation with the Norwood line workers who worked the dress portion of the radiator sub conveyor now.

Just like I did in Echoes, when I cross validate what I am told I will post the conclusions here.

Not a Chevelle guy here, but, does the factory assembly instruction manual show the petcock as an individual part OR as a part of the radiator assembly. If shown separately, I'd say no paint. If part of the assembly, odds are it was painted.

Still speaking to workers that worked at Norwood plant going through the validation on this issue.

In the mean time for your consideration:

Those of you with a copy of Echoes open it to the 2nd floor assembly print and with a magnifier you will locate the radiator conveyor. This is adjacent to the "dog house" front end "buck build" area that supplied sheet metal drop.

I am wrapping up the validation and will post the conclusions in a couple of days.

Here is the AIM:

Nan here is the drain cock called for in 1970. For some reason GM decided to use a drain cock primarily used in trucks dating back to 1963. Construction is brass.

Ok here is the answer that I have been able to validate. Gentlemen, this work is getting much harder to accomplish without hearsay, fortunately I was able to still confirm the key information from 5 men with the recollection of the operation of the 2nd floor buck build area, rail unloading area, and material transfer operations.

Determinations:

Old style copper radiators arrived via train car from Harrison painted.
Radiators were shipped on skids 50 per skid staggered stacked on the flat side.
Radiators Physically separated by cardboard sheet and were strapped to the skid.

Radiators were next tugged (forklift) to the radiator conveyor where they were unpacked off the skids and separated by production designation on the floor in rows.

Radiators were then put on the Radiator conveyor when directed from the second floor- (eg-"send us 20 small radiators and three big radiators")

The radiators were placed on the conveyor where they arrived on the second floor and were unloaded and placed into a smaller short term accumulation area where each radiator was sequenced to the rest of the buck build. At this point the production manifest was the document that directed which part was used on the specific build.

After the Radiator was manifest matched it was dressed, with the radiator cap the overflow hose and the drain valve (petcock)

I am told this is the way the drain valve looked and physical appearance when installed:

Good research Phil,so bent ear flanges faced the Radiator too?

Next the front end was assembled on the build buck. This build was called building the "dog house" by the men.

The buck fixture was a series of fixed structural attachment points designed to force the front end into an acceptable tolerance.

Sheetmetal drop (through the hatch) was the action of transferring the completed dog house down to the main line where it was matched to the correct body.

On to the question: Were petcock's painted? YES they could be, but not with consistency.

The buck tended to scratch the sheet metal up while the front end was being aligned on it, therefore fender skirts, and the core supports were typically scratched while being maneuvered on the Buck so one of the last operations after the doghouse was craned off the buck (but prior to the physical transfer to the 1st floor) was a minor black out operation.

This was literally a guy with a rattle can of black spray paint whose job was to look and see if he thought the scratches were bad enough then at that operators discretion would touch up the areas for cosmetic purposes only.

I am told that petcocks that are found painted today on original cars are likely the singular result of an operator's preference to discern what was responsible and appropriate to spray some black paint on before it went through the hatch.

Example for appearance not correctness of application.

On a final note.

The Norwood production superintendent noted that the entire issue of the lower fender crayon marks and what they meant - seemed to have suddenly died on this forum.

Nobody brings that topic up anymore?

A word of caution from a man who was there: "fella's you tend to overthink this stuff"

"If you think like a lazy man who has a job to do in a way that gets it done in the simplest way possible - then you are then on a good wavelength to allow you to understand how we built your cars"

Very nice work and answers phill. Thanks for all your help and information you recieved from the retired workers. They are a wealth of information to get these answers right.