GEOTHERMAL HEAT/AC
 

Anyone have this type of system in thier garage or know much about it? Thanks

Re: GEOTHERMAL HEAT/AC
 

King I have a friend that has something similar to geothermal he is using in his barn and it works pretty good.It does not work as well as a conventional A/C and Heat system but it maintains a very comfortable temprature.
Geothermal systems us a liquid pumped through a series of underground pipes or lines, the earth stays a costant temprature + or - a few degrees at certain depths underground.
Thus the liquid is made to be this temprature then runs to an exchanger system that removes the cool or heat from the liquid and uses that to heat /cool your shop,home,barn etc. The system my friend designed uses larger pipes and even a large buried tank and they are all hooked together by a piping system that runs to a large blower.
The air is circulated from the tanks and pipes underground and blown through a duct type system in the top of the barn similar to a central A/C duct system. The cool and warm air is spread throughout the barn maintianing a pretty comfortable level.He also uses solar panels and batteries to run the pump or blower.It is a lot cheaper than conventional A/C and the source is naturaly renewable.It does not cool or heat as well as a central A/C and heat system but can regulate it to be very comfortable.

Re: GEOTHERMAL HEAT/AC
 

I am partially retired(I do a few jobs for friends ) from the heat and ac buisness and you are partially right in your description, A geothermal system can work as good if not better than convential hvac system it all depends on the location ,type of geoth system and equipment being used and what your goal to accomplish with the system is. Finally something I know a lot more about than king does https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: GEOTHERMAL HEAT/AC
 

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A geothermal system can work as good if not better than convential hvac system it all depends on the location

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Ditto...I have it in my house (4200 sq/ft), and LOVE it...Mo has it in his house, as well as his bowling alley (7200 sq/ft w/16? ft sidewalls) and in the dead of summer while running 8 ginormous pin-setter machines and everything else in the alley I think he said his highest electric bill was well *under* $200...and those pin-setters create a LOT of heat, and Mo likes it COOOOLD in the summer! The cool thing about them is that you can have multiple zones w/multiple thermostats in different parts of the house...I cheaped out (addnl $3k) and didn't get that option, but we now wish we had...anyway, I would recommend the system.

Another option is a heat pump w/backup (uses same unit), which we have at the shop (6k sq/ft w/ 14 ft sidewalls)...they shine in the summer months, but with colder winters like you guys have, the LPG vs electric backup would probably be better.

Re: GEOTHERMAL HEAT/AC
 

What did your set-up in your house cost you Rob? I am building this fall and am considering this option as well.

Re: GEOTHERMAL HEAT/AC
 

I believe it was $13k, which included digging/backfilling the 2k feet of lines...and as I said above, the extra zones option was gonna be $3k...but we shoulda done it. Check with your electric company, as they almost always (around here anyways) give a rebate if you go with geothermal...ours stopped a couple months prior to us buying our system, because they started on a new power plant and they had to finance it! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/mad.gif

We have a seperate meter on our geo unit...I should check it and see how many kw we've used in a little under a year...

Re: GEOTHERMAL HEAT/AC
 

I was given 2 prices ,one was 45K the other 82K for 6000 sq feet and alot of 12 ft ceilings.[diging 3 300 ft wells] Seems like today i got a quote of 30s due to everyone being out of work i presume?? It sure beats paying 600 a monthy for oil and rising, and i know everything regarding labor is 40% higher in CT than everywhere else in the US. they say in the northeast you need a backup[electric or oil] for those subzero days which come 7/8 days a winter ,which is a turnoff especially for that price tag they cost.. Geothermal seems a great way to go green and "stick it to the man" though.

Re: GEOTHERMAL HEAT/AC
 

While we don't get *quite* the cold temps as you, we do see zero and below every winter, and last I knew, in the 10+ years Mo said he'd owned his, his auxillary heat had *yet* to kick on...I know when we had our stretches of zeros and low-singles this past winter, our backup (heat strips) never kicked on, and my wife kept it cranked up to *at least* 72, and some days better...the strips on the heat pump @ shop, on the other hand, *did* eat some juice, though...btw, our lines are layed out laterally, versus in wells.

For 45k or 80k, I'd dig mine up with a shovel, and haul it to you and install it! LOL!!

Re: GEOTHERMAL HEAT/AC
 

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For 45k or 80k, I'd dig mine up with a shovel, and haul it to you and install it! LOL!!


[/ QUOTE ] You may laugh, but it may make sense to hire someone in Missouri or somewhere else to install it . These people is CT dont like to get out of bed unless they can make 500.00 an hour https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif

Re: GEOTHERMAL HEAT/AC
 

Yep Geo is the way to go. I have 2-6 ton units in the bowling center. Units and ducting cost 20k 4 years ago. We have our own backhoe and done all our own digging. The trick on Geo is dig it deep. Most installers want to put them in at 5 or 6 foot. My house and bowling center are both in at over 9 ft. My house heats or cools for a dollar a day.
We run 32 elect. motors 1/2 hp or bigger, 1 35 hp 3 phase inverter,17 tv screens, 8 video games and 25 8 ft flor. lights along with the 2 6 ton units. Highest bill ever 298 dollars.

Re: GEOTHERMAL HEAT/AC
 

My system for the house cost $17,000 (before rebate), three years ago. 2,400 sq ft with a 2,400 sq ft basement. Located in central Illinois. It is classed as a 3 ton system with three 125 foot wells. We are on a seperate meter for the Geo @ 5 cents KWH vs 9.5 cents KWH for other electricity. Bids for a conventional heat pump system were $13,000 and we got a $2,000 rebate from the power company for going GEO. Really a no brainer for me. My cost was for new construction so it included all duct work etc. Your cost seem out of line.

This is our second house with this system and I would not have any other type. System was manufactured by Water Furnace and they have a WEB site with dealers listed.

Re: GEOTHERMAL HEAT/AC
 

Don - Did they run trenches or did they drill down to run the lines?

Re: GEOTHERMAL HEAT/AC
 

This house they were drilled straight down. Three holes 125 foot each. Ohio house they were lateral. There was not enough real estate to run laterals here.
Don

Re: GEOTHERMAL HEAT/AC
 

I had someone give me a price for geothermal, in CT, about 2 years ago (I have not installed a system yet}, and the cost was 45K for a 6,000 sq. ft. home. I thought it would take too long to ambertize that cost, but now, I am seriously considering it again.

Re: GEOTHERMAL HEAT/AC
 

Lateral lines are the best way to go unless you are limited on space or in a severe climate condition , it uses more electricity to pump 300 ft vertical than 1000 ft horizontal , Here in Ga and at my home we had a large lake , pond or what ever you want to call it dug for our hvac system ,so we get excellent cooling plus fishing, and it looks great too, Id say in the 30s is just about right king for a good system, don't forget if your just building to get lines laid under your garage floor for free heat and cooling there too.

Re: GEOTHERMAL HEAT/AC
 

yeah, the quote I got was to drill 5 300' wells in addition the one we use for water. The horiz. loop is ok in new construction, but I don't know if I want dig the entire yard. Either way, its a cool way to heat & cool.

Re: GEOTHERMAL HEAT/AC
 

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yeah, the quote I got was to drill 5 300' wells in addition the one we use for water. The horiz. loop is ok in new construction, but I don't know if I want dig the entire yard.

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Diggin' those wells is gonna be a mess also...

Re: GEOTHERMAL HEAT/AC
 

My neighbor had it installed in his house when it was built. We were offered the option by our builder but we declined. It was an $8,000 upgrade. Well our house was being built and is all electric just before the massive rate increase by Ameren in IL. Now we kind of wish we had done it.
On a side note, the neighbors had to have 300 amp service to run the unit as well. I think their house is just under 1,800 sq ft with a full unfinished basement. Ours is very similar but a finished basement.

Re: GEOTHERMAL HEAT/AC
 

Also, the constant ground temp is 60*

Re: GEOTHERMAL HEAT/AC
 

I know, but at least there in a cluster a few feet wide. I'm going to look into it again this summer. I'm either going to do it, or move to a more temperate climate soon.

Re: GEOTHERMAL HEAT/AC
 

Dean, One thing is constant. We need to move.It cost more for a geo unit in a 2000 sq ft home in CT than it does for a 10000 sq ft home in every other state, I got prices of 20K JUST for digging 3 150 ft wells. Lets remember one thing, if the system saves you 500 a month, they will find a way to charge you 499 more to put it in so it ends up the same as oil and electric anyway.[just like they did with diesel fuel ]. Ill take the 60K and put a down payment on a house down south and be way ahead of the game. The people here also say you need to keep your oil or electric system too as a "backup" for real cold days,so paying 60K and then keeping your oil heat seems ridiculous anyway. If someone comes up with a idea for a small fan that heats your house for 5.00 a day, theyd charge you 80K for it, so its all irrelevant anyway trying to save a buck.

Re: GEOTHERMAL HEAT/AC
 

Chuck, you are right about backup. All the systems are designed to provide heat down to a certain temp, then you need a backup source. For example, I looked into heat pumps, and they were only good down to 41 degrees at my location, before you need an auxilary form of heat. USELESS here in the NE. You are also right about calculating your return on investment, thats why i hesitated.

Re: GEOTHERMAL HEAT/AC
 

Im building a commercial buidling in stages
the first build this summer will be a 30 X 44 shop 12 ft walls for me, Im going to run pex tube in the concrete so I can set up a system later.
the second build, 1-2 years will be 40 x 64 and will just be storage units for rent, considering putting a paint booth in this side for my own use and theres a few free lance painters in the area Ive known for years that will rent it out.

Ive been reading up on geo thermal, whats your experience with insulating under the concrete slab, this is the stage Im at, running utilities in the next 2 weeks and getting some concrete in by mid june. Im using all side job labor (friends of friends) and my own labor so the time frame moves around.

Re: GEOTHERMAL HEAT/AC
 

dunno what your weather is like, but we need to run heavy duty plastic in the NW then whatever insulation you want or non and pour it thick...if you dont most of the time your floor will sweat terrible and make your shop damp on the inside, https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...thumbsdown.gif

Re: GEOTHERMAL HEAT/AC
 

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.... I got prices of 20K JUST for digging 3 150 ft wells. ....

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I think your contractors cousin is living up here Chuck because I got a similar quote! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

Re: GEOTHERMAL HEAT/AC
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think your contractors cousin is living up here Chuck because I got a similar quote!

[/ QUOTE ] The guys down south and in the midwest dont know how easy they have it. Up here people rather be homeless than work for under 150.00 an hour,and then they want CASH to boot...

Re: GEOTHERMAL HEAT/AC
 

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Up here people rather be homeless than work for under 150.00 an hour,and then they want CASH to boot...


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<---Have backhoe, will travel! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

Re: GEOTHERMAL HEAT/AC
 

[ QUOTE ]
<---Have backhoe, will travel!

[/ QUOTE ] I got lots of parts and cars you might like for bartering too..

Re: GEOTHERMAL HEAT/AC
 

Geo Thermal Heating and Cooling is certainly the way to go. We built a 2100 sq. ft. ranch style home in 2005 with a full basement and a 1585 sq. ft. detached shop and both are heated and cooled by Geo Thermal systems. Both or our systems are the Econar brand which you can find on the internet. The house has (5) 250' wells and is a forced air system and the shop coils are buried in a big hole similar to the size of my basement and about 9' down. The shop has radiant in-floor heat and forced air with a air handler for the central air conditioning. Our son-in-law was the electrician on our home/shop when we built it and he ran 400 amp. service into our home and then ran the electric through conduit back out to the shop. I found out just how important that was later when the electric company told me that had I not done it that way and put a separate meter on the shop, they would have had to charge me the commercial electric rate instead of the residential rate even though the shop is for my own personal use and no compensated work is done there. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Our heating/cooling bills have been extremely reasonable and keep in mind, we live in Central Iowa and heat and air condition both buildings. I think our highest electric bill has been $175.00 and keep in mind, we only have one meter so this covers both buildings. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif Also like Rob mentioned, we received a $3,850.00 rebate from our energy supplier (Mid-American Energy) for going Geo on the house. They would not rebate anything on the shop as it had to be living space. I tried to tell them that when Nancy kicked me out of the house, just where did they think I was going to live? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Here are some pic's:

[b] DRILLING THE WELLS FOR THE HOUSE

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...lsforthe-1.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...sfortheHou.jpg

RADIANT IN-FLOOR HEAT IN THE DETACHED SHOP

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...1-14-06001.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...1-14-06006.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...1-14-06017.jpg

FINISHED PROJECT

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...s8-29-0700.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...tofShop468.jpg

Re: GEOTHERMAL HEAT/AC
 

Love the Bowtie above the garage!

Re: GEOTHERMAL HEAT/AC
 

How much did the wells set you back J.D.?

Re: GEOTHERMAL HEAT/AC
 

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How much did the wells set you back J.D.?

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I really don't remember how much both of the systems cost now but I remember at the time............it certainly was a hard decision to make as the cost for everything was a little more than double than if I had gone with a high efficiency gas furnace in each building and a regular central air conditioning set up.

Re: GEOTHERMAL HEAT/AC
 

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Love the Bowtie above the garage!

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If you like the bowtie above the shop...............you would also like it in front of each bay door too in the shop. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...s/IMG_4506.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...s/IMG_4505.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...PakLift008.jpg

Re: GEOTHERMAL HEAT/AC
 

What??? No lift for the tractor? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Your house is beautiful!

Re: GEOTHERMAL HEAT/AC
 

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What??? No lift for the tractor? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Your house is beautiful!

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Thanks Bruce ! ! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif

Re: GEOTHERMAL HEAT/AC
 

Nice house !!! Boy do those pictures bring back memories,of when I built my new shop at my house. I did all the radiant heat install myself 2400 feet of pex. I only went with radiant in it but it stays at @ 70 all summer long because of the cold slab with 60ish degree water in it. Everybody that walks in swears that it air conditioned. The Bowtie is a Great touch !!!!

Jim