Camaro value drop
 

The first gen camaros are sure taking a drop in value in the last year ?? Wonder way

Interesting observation. Where have you seen the falling prices? Everything I've seen is them pretty much holding still.

Hagerty pricing valuation & classic nada

I gotta say, Right or Wrong... My opinion. Those price guides are usually full of BS. Not real world. Put together based on small statistical subset of cars they have watched sell at auctions. I put no stock in Nada or Haggery or any of these "Storefront" Appraisals I so often see quoted in ads and on line.

Again, I may be wrong and I'm speaking about cars in general... Not just Camaros.

Agree 100%

IMHO,I think folks on the “ outside” of the hobby rely on these resources to determine value. Right or wrong that’s why these resources exist and in many ways influence ALl the automotive markets. As an example I am looking for an FJ 40 and have gone on the expert forums for their expert opinion, auction results, eBay, craigslist, etc.. to get a general price range on these vehicles. Needless to say the same inconsistencies exist in the valuation of these based on owners perception of supply and demand, originality, quality of resto etc.. bottom line if your serious about any vehicle you have to do your homework using a multitude of resources to find what your looking for and for a fair price which is all part of the fun!

lets jump 10 years what will a 1969 z28 worth 40, tops the market will change as we get older .... my kids don:t want these cars. and with electric cars coming in...

I don't think you can lump all kids into the same group. They're just like the rest of us, and all humanity in reality. Some will embrace EVs, some won't, and some in the middle. My 18 yo stepson wants nothing to do with any EV, and will never consider (as long as he has the choice) anything but an ICE.

I for one will not mourn the 'investors' who have no other interest in the hobby other than making returns that outpace the S&P. But long term I think the jury is still out on Camaros as they appeal to younger people as well as older...just consider the number of pro-touring modernized builds and what those cars are bringing at auction.

I always buy what I like so if I get stuck with it...I'm still happy :)

Great conversation guys, and agree.

Gregg

I see the best ones still holding high prices, but the second tier trading for less. I think there is a large generational impact on classic car prices. It appears to me that late 2nd and 3rd gen Camaros are on their way up, as well as some 90's imports. This may be a reflection of the generation that wanted those cars when new, moving to a point in their life with some discretionary income. Additionally, some buyer may be priced out of the traditional muscle car market so are moving to less desired years, driving those prices up. I have seen some really nice '78-'80 Camaros and Trans Ams go for much more than expected lately.

go to Bonneville speed week in august and you will see whats happening to the car hobby in general real quick.at 68 i have not 1 car guy buddy left,they either dont care about old cars anymore or they have passed on.the younger guys around here have very little interest in cars other than a few honda guys or late model type performance cars.

Of the online valuation tools, I've found Hagerty to have the best pulse on what's actually happening in our hobby. My understanding is Hagerty tracks purchase & sale prices of vehicles they insure. I understand they miss a whole segment of the market that insures elsewhere, but I like that their values are based on real numbers. Just my thoughts...

Jeff

I feel pretty confident that first gen z28s arent going to be 30 40K anytime soon, seeing as that amount wont even buy you a nice 74 z28 or a 77 to 80 TA

The times will always change. Look at cars of the 30s that are in stock condition. Some you can buy cheap, i.e. Model A & Model T. As the years continue you'll see the same of cars from different times. I bought my first Camaro in 1976 & my last one in 1981. I still have them both & never cared what the market was doing then or now. I own them because I like them. Sheri will probably be stuck selling them after I pass....Joe

When you think its an investment and not a hobby you're not going to enjoy it and that's what its about enjoying old cars!

I have always maintained that it is all about the cars of our youth. We have seen the 30s and 40s cars interest come and go as has the Tri fives and now the early 60s. Yes they all still bring a fair price but the generations drive the popularity. The only first gen cameras I have seen drop off is the copo and dealer performance cars. Frankly they were overpriced at the peak and I own them but I enjoyed them a lot more when I didn't have to pay house money for them. My opinion is still that the first get Camaros are presently overpriced and they will always be popular but when the generation that was 15 to 30 when they were new passes they will drop. I firmly believe that if you are only in it for the investment then the stock market is a much better risk and you don't have to worry about flat tires and a dead battery.

The same cars are listed for sale month after month and prices have definitely softened for many cars. Not as many young people are interested and many that are, can’t afford $50k plus for a fun car. You want to gauge the strength of the hobby...just look at all the grey hair you see at your next cruise night or car show!

exactly!

IMHO if there is a softening of prices, it's at the top end of the market only and reflects the mood amongst buyers who previously spent up at the big auctions. When you consider a car sold at one of those attracts both a seller's fee and a buyer's fee, often around 10% of the hammer price to each party, that's only benefitting the auction houses. Don't see that as sustainable forever, but real-world prices elsewhere for good restorations, drivers and even projects seem to be staying pretty steady.

We could not wait for Barrett-Jackson and the Mecum Auctions to come on, especially BJ at the beginning of the year. To many and to much out there the last couple years so I rarely tune in anymore. Does not seem to be the real pulse of the hobby in my opinion. We have 4 sons and not really any have a big interest in my cars. They come to the car shows I am in on occasion but that is about it. Our grandkids actually like the shows, cars and food more than our own kids do. Maybe the real high end resto's or high end cars bring good money still but the #2's and #3's seem to be leveling off. I do not have much interest in trailer queens either. They are just "lawn ornaments" to me.

I have been saying the market is softening for a couple years now. I recall about 2 yrs ago here, guys were getting upset there '69 Z28 were not bringing the high numbers. I think the one guy wanted mid $80's and was only in the 60's at an auction.

It's simple supply and demand. Supply is holding stead or increasing in anything but 100 point cars. BUT demand is going down. That why you hear of the "collections" being sold off by the guys that don't really look closely at the prices. Guys like Pratt. If he wanted it he would just bid to he was uncomfortable where it goes. Once guys like him and other big name/dollar guys start dumping and not re-stalking there collections, the prices and demand starts to shrink.

I to want to do this as a bit of an investment too. But all but maybe 3/4 cars would have to be bought by me head, not may hart. I would pay what I would consider OVER market for the just right '67 427 Vette or '68 GTX. NOT AT THIS TIME THOUGH. The Vette will be a tribute to my father who passed in 2018. The '68 GTX was my FIRST car when I turned 16. So it holds a spot in my hart.

Auctions are auctions and prices are all over the board. Sometimes at auctions you can get a great deal simply because you were the only one there wanting that particular car. If no reserve you probably got it really cheap.Not what I would call a indicator of actual value. I recently paid the most money I think I have ever paid fora 69 Z28 and I have owned more than most. To me the middle of the road stuff seems to have fallen a bit and that means more people can buy and enjoy them.

I'd be good with the value of some original first gen parts returning to earth ;) These appear to be holding on still.

I believe the auction world has tired of the date-code correct matching numbers BS and resultant fraud that muscle cars bring. The Jerry Seinfeld Porsche mess is a great example. One fraudulent car is now tied up in lawsuits involving three current and previous owners, a classic car dealership and two auction companies. Imagine the legal bills.

The event program for each B-J auction has an editorial "View From the Block" written by Craig Jackson. Here are a few excerpts:

Scottsdale 2019

Now, when you consider the first baby boomers are hitting retirement age we’re seeing another generational shift. The Gen Xers and millennials are gravitating to the cars from the ‘80s and ‘90s with Japanese imports drawing increasing attention. This was very much in evidence at our 2018 Las Vegas Auction where we saw two Toyota pickups from the 1980s and a 1997 Acura Integra Type R set new world records at auction. The Acura in particular caused a stir in the automotive world with the story of its $63,800 sale spreading like wildfire on the internet and social media; our Facebook post about the sale reached nearly 2 million people.

Will Barrett-Jackson still sell prewar classics and muscle cars? Of course - but perhaps just not as many as in years past. I’ve always said that Barrett-Jackson needs to embrace change as the collector car demographic evolves. As a result, you’ll likely see an even wider, more eclectic selection of vehicles cross our auction block in the coming years.

Palm Beach 2019

The collector car market is unquestionably transforming, and we’re embracing it with open arms. It was great seeing people buy vehicles they actually want to go out and have fun with – Broncos, Jeeps, pickup trucks and Blazers. In fact, 10 of the 28 world-record sales we saw at the Scottsdale Auction fell into that category. We had record sales occur on every single day of the auction – another first for Barrett-Jackson.

The generational change in the market was more evident than ever before – everybody noticed it, and our statistics back it up. On top of strong performances in other sectors, the cars that were cool when the Gen Xers and millennials were kids have come on strong, and we are thoroughly welcoming that new dynamic. Those younger generations are purchasing nearly twice as many vehicles as they were five years ago, and the average year of the cars they’re buying has shifted from 1968 back then to 1978 now.

We’ve been very conscious of the changes in the collector car world all along, and continue to build our dockets to meet the shifting demand of younger buyers. Of course, one major trend we’ve been predicting would come to the forefront since they first appeared on our auction block some 10 years ago is Resto-Mods. Over the past two years, there has been a steady increase in not only the quantity of customs/Resto-Mods we’ve sold, but also a boost in value. A total of 161 custom vehicles were on our 2019 Scottsdale docket – an increase of over 87 percent from the 2017 docket – and the average sale price is up by nearly 28 percent. Seeing that distinct generational change take hold was just one of many highlights of the 2019 Scottsdale Auction. I am so grateful for the overwhelming support we received this year.

We were honored to welcome Toyota as a new automotive partner this year, and were thrilled that both they and Ford Motor Company chose to unveil brand-new vehicles at the Scottsdale Auction as they were simultaneously being unveiled at the renowned Detroit Auto Show.

Hagerty ...hahaha. This was their picture/headline this AM (group is a typo). Since when is a Lucerne Blue 1970 T/A a "ground floor" car? The prices have peaked on T/As (except Bandit editions, I believe there is still a little more growth happening there) - they ain't getting more expensive. LOL :)

There is something to be said for the “generational” buyers. I’m 46, and despite the hair, have a ways to go before I retire. Lately, I’m seeing myself gravitate towards the cars when I was a kid. You know, the ones I bought models of to build and dream about owning one day? Cars like the 1982 Mustang GT, IROC Z Camaro, Ferrari Testarossa and 348 Spiders, Ferrari 328s, 90s ZR1s, etc. I’m thinking of pulling the trigger on a very nice 348 shortly. Do I now shun off the old muscle? Of course not! :3gears: But cars are fun, and they’re supposed to be FUN, and despite the “investment” potential of some, most are just buying cars because they are what they wanted as a kid and not as a monetary return later on. Although knowing something won’t tank and hopefully would gain a little value over the long haul is comfortating. I was looking at Testarossas about 15 yrs ago and they were in the 40s. Not today.:no:

For me, I don’t know jack about the foreign jobbies. But after researching Ferraris, I’m educated enough to make a decision. I think the blue chip cars will always command money; Hemi, L89, COPO, 6-Pack, etc. It’s the others that will take the tumble the most as the generations coming up want what they could not get as a kid and for my group, it’s the mid-late 80s and early 90s cars, despite their anemic performace.

But after all, for the price of one V-Code Cuda, I could have about 4 or 5 “fun” cars I wanted as a kid. :cool2: Hmm....now that I think about it, why the heck don’t I have those???:dunno::scholar::hmmm:

Cheers
Dave

I feel like I should be apologizing to all you 1st Gen guys as this drop in value is probably my fault. Initiating a full-blown resto on my car is surely guaranteed to result in dropping values......just like washing your car is the quickest way to get some rain:grin:

The the rare/number matching cars will always hold there value. Most of these cars do not ever make it to auctions because there is a line of people that want to buy them. That is why I think the price guides are off.

A lot of the cars in actions are pigs with lipstick

I have a friend in the UK who buys nice low mile Ferraris at the bottom of the market cycle, enjoys them for a while, and sells them, some times double or more than he paid. Right now he has two black 456s.

A guy near me has a stash of more than 30 low mile unmolested Firebird Formulas and T/As from the early 90s, along with a couple IROC Zs. He's anticipating a market upswing.

I like those 348s also. Good looking cars.
I bought a 2002 WS6 Trans Am last year and probably drove it more than the other cars. Has air conditioning and a good stereo. I would have no problem adding another 69 camaro tho.
I see soo many 1st gen camaros on facebook with asking prices of 10k or more and they are junk. I guess people want one of these to see if they can fix them up rather than buy a done car. Most end up sitting and never getting finished

I think I am a decent representation of the future of the market. I am 50 and grew up a huge fan of 60’s muscle. I had a 70 SS Camaro for my 1st car.

I always have loved the look of Baracudas, Camaros, Mustangs. I have a 1974 Jeep CJ5 with a built 304 V8.

In a few years when I buy some toys the ones on my list are a 2019 Challenger Hellcat, 2016 Vette Z06/Z07, Lamborghini Gallardo or a Huracan.

While I love and appreciate vintage muscle and will be the first guy to walk up and ask all about your muscle car I don’t want to own one. I would rather have a modern car with ac, more power, modern interior, great handling & brakes and all modern safety.

I think if you view your vintage muscle car purely as an investment now is a great time to sell because as time goes by the supply of cars will increase and demand will decrease.

Just my $0.02....

Have owned a few over my lifetime including the Tri Fives as well as Musclecars. Would appear to me what has been happening in the Tri Five market is simply now entering the Musclecar era. Not only do you have the younger end of the market with less interest in these cars but you have some like myself getting older (70 soon) with less interest and energy to work on the cars, drive them in increasing traffic, sit in the hot sun at car shows for hours, etc. I still enjoy following them more as a spectator now. Also got turned off by the growing fake market and misrepresentation movement. Sold my last muscle car about 10 years ago to the Albaugh collection.

I still have interest in having a “play car” in the garage but now more interested in ease of use and dependability. Owned and recently sold an SSR and now on the hunt for the next horse to put in the stable. Considering my first Ford product which I thought I would never say :)

I'm 45 years old, own a 68 RS 327 and a 69 RS/SS 350, ten and fifteen years respectively. I've never owned or driven a solid lifter Camaro and I don't personally know or hang out with anyone on this site. So, from an outsiders perspective, I'd say the market for big block and Z28 Camaro's has remained strong, untouched originals at the top. Meanwhile, SS350 and lower models have dropped in value. I'll assume not many people today are seeking a 307 Camaro to do a full blown resto while it shares 80% of its parts with a COPO or Z and 100% of the labor. I'm aware there's always exceptions. It seemed about ten, fifteen years ago every first gen was being recklessly bought up, driving the prices. Now, those cars are showing up as solid lifter clones(or worse) or as failed/incomplete projects for less money. I don't think the previously restored "average" cars are bringing as much as they used to. Perhaps nicely done clones are rivaling them.

In 10-12 years cars will be self driving and older cars will be banned from roads.That is when these cars will really see a price drop.

I don't know about Camaros but Mustang prices are dropping like a rock other than 65-68 fastbacks and Shelby's

65-68 coupes are becoming valueless. on FB Mustang pages: "I have 22k in my 65 coupe and only getting offers of 10k, what gives?"

Bill, I'm 53 and I too am on the outside of this site looking in. BUT different from you, I have 3 old cars. I understand there not for everyone. And that's just why I like them. Many like yourself can appreciate them. As for the newer stuff, not really for me. I agree the creature comforts and stuff make them much more appealing, but then there just a mode of transportation.

I've said it on here before, my mother (not into cars at all) is 78 yrs old and has an Audi TT RS. Now 3 years ago, mom and dad DROVE this car from Ontario Canada to Mesa Arizona to their winter home. NO issues with comfort in the small car on a 3500 mile trip. It gets great mileage, plenty of creature comforts/Power, and I would bet faster than 95% of the OEM stock musclecars out there. Heck mom has the road and track where THAT car went 12.60 at 109. And she can drive it being 78 without an issue.

I still like and prefer the old stuff. Now I'm doing I guess the pro touring style with old sheetmetal and updated everything else.

Buy what brings you joy. You won’t have any regrets!!

And then, amongst the gloom here about the future of these cars, we have Dan and Dave Schutzbank! These young men have a passion for these cars that rival any of us old die hards. They, and hopefully a few others, will be the caretakers of these cars in the future.

This has been a great thread with lots of heartfelt comments and no BS! I bought my first muscle car in 1978 and owned lots of them until 2008. I wanted something a little more drivable and didn’t want to tinker too much. I was also sick of the fakes and inflated prices. I got into 96-98 Porsches and had a lot of fun with them. Now, they are 20 plus years old and prices have sky rocketed due to increased popularity. It is complete déjà vu to the mid 2000’s and the muscle car market.

I sold my last 993 a few weeks ago and am not sure which direction I will go in. I’m leaning toward an unrestored 70-72 LT-1 as they are very cool cars, I have a local garage that services them, and their prices are pretty reasonable compared to a 67 Z28 or L78. I know one thing for sure and that is that I have no desire for a project car now that I am 57. I am just interested in driving to a local cruise night a couple of times per month.

I guess my wife and I are slightly different.

We have no interest in new cars anymore. We sold the last new LS powered car about 6-7 years ago. We've been driving nothing but classics since. We don't own them for investment purposes. Most of them we've had in the stable for nearly 40 years or more. I was just lucky enough that I was buying them when I was 16 when they were cheap and kept most of them throughout the years, so even if the prices plummet and I decide to sell when I'm too old to enjoy, I'd likely still come out ahead on them.

Now as we get older, we are tired of staring at them and decided to start driving and enjoying them. We don't like the computer controlled stuff and don't really want all that many creature comforts. Most of our classics are still running points ignitions, we like the KISS principle.
Wife drives our 69 RS Z/28 and she's put just over 30k miles on it in the last couple years. Even in the AZ heat it's not bad to drive with it's white interior. My son who is 20 and in college daily drives a classic back and forth every day. He's grown up around it and loves this stuff. If they are maintained properly we find them dead nuts reliable, easy to diagnose, and cheap to keep running. Done many cross country trips in them.
I have one newer duramax truck that just sits in the garage for months at a time, it's paid for, and only comes out when I need to haul something.
I think we just reached a point in life where we were tired of car payments, and the license fees here in AZ are murder on new cars. Luckily we live in a climate that is friendly to the classics so I don't have to worry about salted roads.
I guess you could say we are a bit old school but driving the classics puts a smile on my face, my wife loves it too. I'm always looking for an excuse to go somewhere :biggthumpup:

Just to add, when I turned 16, my driver was a 56 Nomad. Manual drum brakes, manual steering, lol. Great car to learn in. I daily drove that for years, through highschool, and back and forth to my first jobs as a teenager and into my early 20's. That car is still sitting here. Call me nuts, but I've had the desire lately to put that car back on the road and start daily driving it again too.