A Mustang a minute.....

[70 copo]

Not Good

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...tEverLoss.aspx

Phil

[nuch_ss396]

40 years ago I would have been cheering ( hated the FORD guys )!

Now that I'm grown, I realize just how catastrophic this is
for all of us. Think the Gov't will help bail them out like
they did for Iacoca years ago? God, I hope so. Sad day indeed...........

Nuch

[ANDY M]

Keeping in mind that the Ford family owns the Lions, I have my worries about the guys they hired to turn things around.
They don't have a very good track record, at least not since Lee Iacoco. Like GM, they have given too much of their profits back to the union AND management, instead of reinvesting into more effiecent mfg processes. Now they are trying to get rid of 30,000 people to lower their payroll, which begs the question: why were they there in the first place?
Is Ford cutting off it's nose to spite it's face, hoping just to stay in business, or did they have that much dead wood?
Not good either way, and this doesn't begin to cover what is wrong with the product line they make.
No wonder Toyota is eating their lunch. No union, complete focus on quality, willing to listen to employee feedback, and steady profitability.

[nuch_ss396]

Andy,

30,000 "expendable" employees! That boggles the mind.
What in God's name where their positions that they can
afford to let them go. I also think the unions have
basically crippled the auto makers. Their time is past.

I spend a lot of time in a Gov't facility that is unionized
and I can't even begin to tell you how counter productive
it all is. If Ford has anything like this to deal with, I
think I can understand why they are dieing on the vine.

Can you imagine a day when one of the big three disappears
from our landscape and a foreign auto maker takes their
place? It doesn't look to be that far away. Look at KIA.
I'm not recommending their cars, but cheep prices, 100,000
mile warranty, etc.. They are hungry for growth and willing
to bank on the future.

I was out looking for cars for my daughter and I'm looking
at $14,000 for a used Taurus or $14,000 for a new KIA.
The 100,000 mile warranty is amazing. It's a tough call
because I want to keep our companies going strong. But
at what price?

Steve

[ANDY M]

Funny you should mention KIA. They used to be owned by Ford. Remember the Ford Festiva? POS tin can, cost Ford big $$, and when they (KIA) got their act together, following Hyundi's lead, they went off on their own.
All of the foreign mfgs came here because North America has the most productive workforce in the world!
When paid a fair wage, with flexible management that actually listens to their workers, they can't lose.
Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Subaru, Suzuki, Hyundi, Mercedes, BMW, they all built plants in North America becuase they all make money.

[nuch_ss396]

Well then what's the problem Andy? All the automakers are
making money in North America except the big three! There
should be a lesson hiding in there somewhere........

Steve

[Seattle Sam]

There are two big problems that make it difficult if not impossible for Ford and GM to compete -

All the plants that manufacture the vehicles mentioned above are built in "right to work" states where you are not required by law to join the union when you work in a union shop. And the companies involved make an effort to keep their employees happy and not push them towards organizing. Thus these manufacturers are not saddled with expensive (and uncompetitive) union wages and benefits.

Second, these plants are all new and make use of the latest manufacturing technology to keep quality and productivity high and costs down.

Tough to beat that kind of "one-two" punch..

-Sam

[ssl78]

I do not believe for one minute it is the unions fault for the trouble Ford is in. When Henry Ford started this company his belief was pay the worker enough money so he can afford to buy our cars and it worked Ford sold a ton of model Ts.
The problem is there is a saying be careful who you compete with because you will have to become like them. First the car manufacturers sent all thier parts to Japan then Mexico, China, Taiwan to be made only to take that that savings and give it to upper management while they sat back and lived a good life instead of finding new innovative ideas to better the Ford line. We made the other countrys rich so they could come back and out perform us.
It is also the governments fault for letting this happen this is America and shouldnt have to compete with all the slave labor around the world. The only reason we have to is because of the greed of corporate America worrying about the bottom line for themselves.
I work in the same place in a union in coporate America for the last 30 years. When I started there the part time people working there were paid 10.00 and up an hour but in return they wanted clean cut college students who came in and had some pride in there work. Today 30 years later they start the people off at 8.50 an hour and do not care who they hire the turn over rate is about 70% last I heard at about 500.00 a person to train. Remember this is a company that promotes within do I need to tell you the quality of management we have know. I once respected them now I just have to put up with them. Remember most things start at the top and work down a bad employees are only as good as the management lets them be. I could be way off base here but thats how I see it.

[427TJ]

I'm with you John. Labor is too often the easy scapegoat for the mistakes of management. Management never fails to give themselves bonuses no matter how poorly the company does, then when the bad news is made public management says that labor cost is the real problem. If The Big Three automakers (or any U.S. airline) used 100% slave labor they'd still find a way to lose money.

(Full disclosure: I am an airline pilot and union member.)

Sam: I hear you but I think it's the corporate culture of the Big Three that needs to be modernized. Toyota is probably taking advantage of right-to-work laws but Big Three management has been shown the new way to build cars for over 30 years now by the Japanese and they still resist change. Alan Mulally might be able to make Ford work or he could manage Ford into oblivion. Either way he'll walk away with millions (and millions) in his Golden Parachute. I'd smile too if I were him. If Ford (or GM or D-Chrysler) fails they'll moan about labor costs--while they conduct interviews from their 150-foot yachts.

I'm all for capitalism and I definitely love making money, just don't tell me that it's all my fault when the company loses money while the top 10 managers lavish themselves with "incentive pay."

Labor = American families.

[69LM1]

Single point in case: The new Cadimaro, ummm, I mean Camaro.