rebodied with out salvage a title

[elcamino]

A good friends nephew was a auto body man. For years when he worked at a Chevy body shop he would buy wrecked cars and fix them in his own shop, moonlighting. Often the owner of the wrecked car wanted to buy a new vehicle and he would get the wreck for a good price if the dealer took it in trade or sometimes he made a deal with the owner.

When it came time to sell he would tell them they were wrecked but often did not tell them of the extent. Well after doing this for many years and making a lot of money. He sold a Blazer that was in a bad run off the road accident. He fixed using all GM parts but he never disclosed the extent of the accident to the buyer. It did not have a salvage title. Well, although he was a good body man and used all GM parts to repair it, the new owner, a young girl was fatally injured in the Blazer. This happened about 6 months after he sold it to her parents. They suspected something wrong with the vehicle, so they hired a very good lawyer who found out the extent of the damage and how much he made on the transaction. An investigation determined that he was negligent in his repair, some parts were not replaced and later failed. They said he failed to disclose the extent of his repairs, he insisted he did but nothing was in writing. He was lucky to stay out of jail. He was sued, the parents blame him for the accident even though it was shown the driver was speeding. He cannot find a job in any body shop to this day and works construction. He was not really a crook, although he was a good body man, he was not state licensed and insured to do this work outside of the GM dealership.

So I guess the moral is, be very careful restoring vehicles of any omissions on a vehicle repair. If the buyer can prove a defect exists or you altered the vehicle with the intent to defraud and you failed to disclose, you are in breach of contract and can be sued for any and all damages to include punitive damages.

There is a fine line between restoring a car and making a car from junk. I don't think I would want to be the person who just bought a restored 1969 Z28 for $50g only to find out it was a total piece of junk before the restoration and was made up of many other cars unless the shop doing the work was Body Codington etc.

[Norm reynolds]

Ed you say clipping is accepted?? Did that Lincoln get re-titled as reconstructed I do not know what is legal in NC but what I am finding out is in some states it is required by law
I have been in the business for over 35 years I for one WILL NEVER CLIP A CAR
The legal aspect is just to great The shops that I have seen clipping cars are all for the most part out of business why LAW-SUTES I have done my home work on this
I called my insurance co today just to see what their policy on clipping a car I was told if its that bad that it needs to be clipped they will total it even if it is a new car because they can be held liable and not worth the risk. They went on to say they have in the past have been sued The Lincoln you spoke of will most likely end up in a used car lot by years end and some poor Joe ends up with a lemon I know what you are saying about high dollar car but is the risk worth it once its clipped it will never be the same I can go on for days telling you of all the problems I have seen when a car gets clipped. What Mike has said is right on the money I have seen this way to many times. People today are sue happy and will sue you in a heart beat It just not worth the risk. I know that I will NOT convince every one but at least
I can sleep at night knowing I did the right thing I have spoke my peace on this subject and now will get off my soup box and end this

[bbg]

After watching Boyd's new show on Discovery and seeing how many screw ups they made I don't think I would let them fix my car either! LOL I agree with you about some folks fixing wrecks. I have seen a lot of corners cut on salvage repairs done by back door shops for a quick resale. If obtained properly and inspected upon completion by the DMV the public has some assurance of the quality of the repairs. If someone chooses to violate the law that is the technicians fault, not the vehicles. I guess if we look at our court dockets though, this is not the only law broken in this country. As I stated though if done by a reputable shop by certified technicians with state of the art equipment clipping is an acceptable, reliable, and cost effective repair that in some cases is better by far than piecing a large part of the structure back together from a pile of replacement sheet metal. I am neither pro or con on the issue, but again it is an acceptable process and is authorized by insurance companies if applicable to the situation. I don't think insurance companies are going to endorse the work of someone moonlighting out of a home shop anyway. You have any additional information why if these folks suspected something wrong with the blazer they drove it for 6 months, and what the part was that failed after 6 months? Also in shops here body men are just that - body men. They repair the bodies. Any mechanical issues are handled by the mechanics in the service area where they too are certified to inspect suspension and drive train components. As to the 50K Z/28 I also would think that would depend on the car. There are a lot of nice originals, there are a lot of nice minor restorations where a bit of freshening was done on a good driver. I don't think in reality there are a lot of really nice cars taken apart for a total restoration anyway. Resto costs are just too high for that. When a guy lists every body panel replaced except the roof is it because he wants new panels, he wants to make sure there is no rust or gremlins hidden somewhere, or the body was shot and they needed replaced? If you put in new inner and outer rockers and a floor pan technically you just cut the car in two anyway, but in two places instead of one. I think in reality we really have two issues here. One is the structural integrity of the repair which if done by professionals is OK. You can screw up anything if you don't know what you are doing - it doesn't just apply to cars. The second issue is pedigree. I think some folks just can't accept that the rear might have been a lowly 6 cylinder. That clip knows in it's heart that it is not worthy of being on that car, and everyone that comes in contact with it can pick up on the insecurity and negative vibes it emits. You know I think we may need to look at the experiences of those that have gone before us. The A and T model guys, the hotrod guys, and the 50's era guys have all experienced the same things and have got past it as they have come to realize that the salvage left is quickly running out of prestine shells, parts cars, etc. to work with and now gladly repair what they can find. We will too someday. We just aren't quite there yet.

[bbg]

Hey Norm,

I just read your post after the prievious reply. As to the Lincoln I do not know of the titleing, as it was a customers car, and was repaired for the customer and is still owned by the customer. This is 5 years later. It was repaired by a dealership. I can see where it would be a dangerous thing if done incorrectly. Would not any repair done incorrectly be dangerous as well, opening the door for a lawsuit? This is why I am talking trained certified technicians, not just some jack of all trades that hangs out a sign and starts building cars. If man can go to the moon er mars, refloat sunken ships, and build structures that reach to the sky surely a trained technician can weld two pieces of a car together. The best I remember from my own welding class a good weld is stronger than the metal to to be joined.

[bbg]

I suppose by now everyone here is tired of hearing my opinions also, and for that I apologize. I just want to point out I am not defending anyone's particular vehicle - that is between the owner and any future potential buyer. I am defending the technology. I remember the day when straightening a frame meant heating the damaged area with a torch and hitting it with a sledge hammer till it went down enough till the front end would line up. If you took it too far, shim it. If the unibody is hung on a frame machine and is true with certified technicians working on it I see no problem. Cars are made up of systems. If you cut a car in half you would have to change the rear suspension if so desired, or use the one in the clip. Other than that you hook up a brake line and bleed the brakes. Put the fuel line back. Hook up the emergency brake, and plug the wiring harness up. How difficult can any of this be other than trusting the weld? Troy Trapenzier (is that spelled right?) just built the ebay Mustang. They cut that unibody from one end to the other replacing panels as they went. They cut the front end off in front of the firewall and replaced it with one from a 6 cylinder coupe. Is that front end now going to fall off and the new owner going to sue ebay and Troy? How about the Baer brakes Road Runner? Cut the front end off in front of the firewall, and replaced it because of damage. A high profile resto shop did it. Is that front end going to fall off? How about the goodmark Chevelle? What a piece of S--- they started with. That thing is really unique. They used it to showcase thier panels and nearly rebuilt the whole unibody from aftermarket parts. Is it going to fall apart? How about the 56 Chevy being built now on American Hotrod by Boyd. Cut from one end to the other. Is it going to fall apart? Lastly how about the motorcycles of Jesse James and Orange County Choppers? Are they going to fall apart? I am sure you all can think of others. You know what all this actually has in common though? It all started as junk and now is worth big bucks because of who built it, aftermarket parts used, and publicity. Do I think you ought to disclose what's done? Yes. Do I think it is the death sentence? No. I think the buyer is thinking that if I pay all the money I want a car that is worth all the money. If the potential buyer is still there after your disclosure he likes it and if he starts to dicker price, it is just a tool then to use to pay less. People dicker and pick the nicest out there too trying to save a buck. Human nature. We often price high to dicker to what we want anyway, and then the buyer thinks he talked you down and you got what you wanted anyway. All just mind games. Don't we all want a zillion dollars for our cars and a bargain on the ones we buy? If everyone here would be completely honest how many of your cars have some kind of wreck damage that has been repaired? How much? How significant? You going to tell? You going to sugar coat it? Doesn't the market already regulate the price based on rarity, options, desireability, authenticity, and condition anyway? Not that I really think you guys suck, I just always wanted to post those things. Besides, by now you all probably think I suck.

[Charley Lillard]

You Suck...but well said.

[sYc]

Eddie, some very interesting reading, and thought provoking. And, I tend to agree with what you are saying.

[firstgenaddict]

Now what about the 32 Ford all steel streetrods?
These are not made by a recognized mfgr. And someone did one up as a restored car and tried to enter it into an AACA national meet. They went crazy.
So now that The Parts Place is going to be offering complete 69 Camaro Convertible body tubs all completely welded etc. (They will be offering Coupes at a later date) what is to stop some one from just putting a SN on one of these ...as a matter of fact that is exactly the senario they use in their ebay ad. "Will make it much easier to rebuild that rusted away COPO" or something like that.

[firstgenaddict]

69 Camaro Conv Reproduction

[elcamino]

[ QUOTE ]
You have any additional information why if these folks suspected something wrong with the Blazer they drove it for 6 months, and what the part was that failed after 6 months?

[/ QUOTE ]

It was related to steering and or suspension. The frame was bent in the first accident and was repaired by him using the dealers equipment.

I think it was that the parents could not accept the tragedy and were looking for the reason. When it was discovered they purchased a Blazer that was nearly totaled, they went after him and the court sided with them. He had no business insurance to protect himself.