69 Z-28 survivor

[adam]

can somebody please explain the "wrong grill"? Its the first time I've heard that about my car.

[Charley Lillard]

Your orig grill did not "survive".Your grill should be silver. The replacement one for years have been black.

[SMGCO]

[ QUOTE ]
What does the X mean?
Todd

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe they pre marked the x codes ( ie, x 7 telling the line workers the car was to be an x77 non style trim group ) before the cars went down the assembly line.

[Steve Shauger]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I see prices have returned to earth. Nice car. Priced about right. &lt;img src=&quot;https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mpup.gif&quot; alt=&quot;&quot; /&gt; </div></div>

Not sure you can base that on this car. The car is obviously NOT a survivor. Has incorrect paint, hood, grill, incorrect ride height/springs and many missing/incorrect pieces under the hood. No information regarding documentaion, and is low option car. Not trying to bash this car, but it is neither a survivor or concours restored car. What do you think this would have been worth a year ago? &lt;img src=&quot;https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...unno.gif&quot; alt=&quot;&quot; /&gt; </div></div>


Steve,

Lets focus my comments to exactly what I was referring to. Since 2004 There have been numerous examples for sale where the seller was asking large dollars for cars that were claimed to be original with LOTS of stuff that was very clearly wrong.

Since then there have been more examples of cars that should have been heavily critiqued on Camaro web sites but essentially got a &quot;pass&quot; because while the car was not perfect- the asking price was still good and high.

This allows others that are vested in these values to speculate up the price on better cars through comparison with the high priced yet vastly inferior examples.

Despite this, the prices asked for these cars along with the rest of the 20,000 made in 1969 were hyped to levels that the market could clearly not sustain over the long term.

The car discussed in this thread looks to be an honest car that would appear to still have its original engine and is fairly priced (for a change). This fact is no small feat by its self.

It is that simple. Car is not perfect but the asking price is not $70K either.

My comments had and have zero to do with the car as a &quot;survivor&quot; (as the term) is currently used by the NCRS or for Camaro judging criteria. &lt;img src=&quot;https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...hmmm.gif&quot; alt=&quot;&quot; /&gt;

Phil </div></div>

Your quote &quot;I see prices have returned to earth. Nice car. Priced about right. &lt;img src=&quot;https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mpup.gif&quot; alt=&quot;&quot; /&gt; [/quote]&quot;

My point as stated is that the price for this car has not changed or &quot;come down to earth&quot;, because this car has been worth same for the last couple of years. I disagree with your statement and I specified why this car was not worth 75k plus because it was not a survivor or a concours restored car.

Regarding your quote:
&quot;This allows others that are vested in these values to speculate up the price on better cars through comparison with the high priced yet vastly inferior examples.

Despite this, the prices asked for these cars along with the rest of the 20,000 made in 1969 were hyped to levels that the market could clearly not sustain over the long term.&quot;



Regarding your quote:
&quot;My comments had and have zero to do with the car as a &quot;survivor&quot; (as the term) is currently used by the NCRS or for Camaro judging criteria.&quot;

Again my original use of the term survivor and concours was to point out this car was neither hence the 40K asking price. Now follow-up posts were made regarding the survivor term and I was clarifying its definition. If you read my post I think most people got my point. As you know accurate decriptions and classifications of cars is critical as stated in my previous post. &lt;img src=&quot;https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...eers.gif&quot; alt=&quot;&quot; /&gt;

[69LM1]

Steve,
Can open, Worms Everywhere.

Who died and made you Camaro God? Why is it YOUR standard is what you feel everyone else has to go by?

I personally think that it is INSANE that someone would pay 95,000.00 for a piece of metal tag that has an "X-77" on it, with a non original 350 in it, but has every bolt marked with original stamps. I PERSONALLY think that this Z, with no X code, but the original driveline is the better choice, for far less money.


As far as the vette crowd goes, I don't see you advocating restamped engines. In the vette world and judging I am to understand that this is an "accepted" practice.

I have said it, and I will again, the only difference between a 69 COPO and a 69 6-banger is the driveline/suspension. Same Body.

Give me this Z anyday.

As far as the LM1 cars and 70 COPO Z's, they are what "I" like. I could care less about what your opinion is, and your silly trailer queen certification process.

I drive my cars, I don't worship em.

[Stuart Adams]

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Geez Rich - might want to take walk next time b4 typing!

[Stuart Adams]

Ok gentlemen, as an outsider looking in I have a few thoughts on the matter.

First this all started with a word called Survivor.

Survivor in this case means it is still alive.

Survivor in the judging of camaros is a term to describe a mostly all original as it left the factory car. paint, parts, etc.

The term should be changed I think to something like unrestored with original factory born parts or something to the liking.

Some people drive em, some show em and alot in between, we shouldn't judge the person based on those facts.

If the guy sells the car for 40 then it was a good price if not it wasn't and leave it at that. Survival of the fittest always rules, Like LV's COPO - gone in 60 seconds.

[69LM1]

Just gettin tired of the hypocrisy.

What did this thread have to do with LM1’s and 70 Z COPO’s?

Everyone has different aspects that they like and dislike about this hobby. Of course people are going to get excited about the things that they like, and especially those cars that they own. I can respect that some guys like cars that they can make “perfect” even though none came from the factory that “perfect”.

Yes, I might be “hyping” the 69 LM1, but nothing I say is false. It is me promoting what I like, and sharing with others who like the same cars.

Steve is doing the same thing with his “certification”. That’s cool. It might not be my thing, but I can respect the opinion he has in his own way for his aspect of this hobby. Why attack Phil and I for what we like?

Finally, back to this Z.

Again and again, we see over restored Z’s COPO’s etc. These cars in many cases were run and run hard/ put away wet. Most do not have original drivelines. This is what made a “Z” a “Z”.

I don’t know this guy, or this car. BUT by the pictures, it seems to be what “I” would rather call a survivor. It’s got the most important part, the heart and soul if you will, of the Z-28 package. IMO, more so than a car that has sat in a barn for 30 years with a blown up engine and now has a 010 block built and put into it.

That’s like giving Einstein a lobotomy and calling him a genius!

[70 copo]

Steve,

All I did was say it was a nice car and a fair price. You then decided to reply taking the topic of my exceedingly simple comment in a different direction by focusing on the seller's choice of words in the ad and thus framing an opinion around that. That is OK, just remember I am entitled to reply to your comments.

As far as my opinion goes on prices for '69 Z28's - auction results tell the whole story of where prices are, were and when. It is what it is. This car has its original engine and is still fairly priced.

I am not going personal and off topic with respect to your other comments against myself (and Rich) as it is non-productive and contributes nothing factual to the thread being discussed.

I respect your opinion and you are entitled to it. Please provide the same respect to me and others who may choose to disagree.