Letter from Joel Rosen

[Atuckman]

I want to share my thoughts on the Letter of Authenticity process for those who care

In his 70s, Joel still owns and manages a small business to stay active and pay their bills.
He is constantly called by both collectors and speculators to advise on whether a car is real or not.
In return for his time, he charges a fee to review information provided to him as well as check his own files from Motion Performance.
His time is valuable and can’t be returned...why should his fee?

If that isn’t enough, a letter recognizing a car's connection to MP will create substantial value for the car's owner.
Joel doesn't charge extra for documents that he locates and is happy to provide them to the owner.
He doesn't charge more if the car is real. Seems very fair to me.

Skeptics question the breath of information he has on Motion cars.
He has openly stated in private and public forums that his documentation is not complete.
40+yr old files exist but aren’t organized digitally and some were destroyed in an office fire.
Unfortunately, he can’t search by customer, VIN, year or body style.
The process takes time.

I’ve heard some people question why he hasn’t made a list of his cars available to the public.
Same reason the state doesn’t give away winning lottery numbers.
We live in a free country, thank g-d, and its his right and he isn’t hurting anyone.

Joel provides letters based on his findings. If there is substantial evidence that a car was sourced through Baldwin or several other dealerships and modified when new or after by MP, his letter will say it. Evidence can include: order forms, invoices, NICB reports, owner history, vintage photos, physical evidence, etc.
Physical evidence alone is not enough to confirm a BM car.

If the evidence is inconclusive, his letter will say so.
Accountability falls on him and there are big dollars involved.
An "inconclusive" or “maybe” letter is just that. Buyers beware.
These cars become "story cars" that could have been modified after new using catalog parts.
Joel doesn’t want to have liability if a car is proven otherwise at a later time.

Joel is professional and explains process up front.
He told me years ago to do my homework before beginning the process and paying the fee.

He is very happy to learn of new cars being discovered.
Unfortunately, he has had to deal with some difficult personalities over the years.

In my opinion, he is one of the “musclecar greats” and has given many of us a lot to smile about.
Lucky for us, he is still around to tell stories and join us at events like MCACN
Wish i could have enjoyed it back in the day!

[68COPO]

That was excellent Adam. Thank you.
Rick

[Igosplut]

I think some people lose sight of the fact that the most important thing (back then) was to get the cars modified/built. To race, and have fun. Not to be buying something that was going to have to be "proven" by paperwork, and be obsessed over to prove origin. People are damn lucky he didn't toss the records he DID have left.

On a side note, one of my customers mentioned the fact that he used to have Motion work on his car back then (a 69 Z/28 with a aluminum head 454) He made mention of Joels boat that had twin big-blocks. I lent him the Motion book and he immediately got lost in it...

[SS427]

Very nicely put Adam. I think a lot of people need to sit down and think issues through from beginning to end and hear both sides before they develope a conclusion. Too often people think the worst and automatically think people are out to screw others when in fact they are not, they are only trying to protect their assets and their backside due to as you said the liability. One thing that keeps coming to mind with gentlemen like Joel is we REALLY need to appreciate them while they are on this earth as once they are gone we cannot go back.

[markus37]

Good discussion ! In my time at Yenko in the 60's the only mission was to sell cars ,prep race cars etc. The really important " Paperwork " was the money part...bringing income to the operation. As I quoted Donna Mae in my book " We never expected to become part of automotive history ! "

[sYc]

Actually, late '60s, early '70s Yenko was concerned with paperwork as well as the other stuff you mention, as to sell his cars in volume he needed to get them approved by various sanctioning bodies, such as SCCA, NHRA, AHRA, and others. If not for Yenko keeping much of the paperwork associated with his cars, as well as keeping the paperwork until it could be rescued by others, Yenko owners might be facing a much tougher time documenting their cars, such as Motion, Harrell, etc.


Judging by what we have, some useful, some just interesting reading, and what I know others have, appears Yenko documented ( and saved) everything,

Example of interesting, Don once worked with Weslake out of England in an effort to produce a better SBC cylinder head?

[ORIGLS6]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Atuckman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Joel is professional and explains process up front.
He told me years ago to do my homework before beginning the process and paying the fee.

He is very happy to learn of new cars being discovered.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Unfortunately, he has had to deal with some difficult personalities over the years.</span>
In my opinion, he is one of the “musclecar greats” and has given many of us a lot to smile about.
Lucky for us, he is still around to tell stories and join us at events like MCACN
Wish i could have enjoyed it back in the day! </div></div>

Can't argue this!

[sYc]

I think when Joel was scheduled to attend the SCR, some of us had heard the not so flattering stories about him, thus we were on edge. Nothing could have been farther from the truth, as he was very helpful, informative and entertaining, even throwing in some witty humor (when quizzed about Yenko). Since that time, whether by phone, email or at MACAN, Joel has been nothing but a joy to be around, at least for me.

[NovaMob03]

Not sure I agree with your assessment of Joel's documentation process, Adam. First of all, he doesn't have or share 'actual invoices' for work performed by Motion, nor does he visually inspect any cars, but rather rely's on pictures sent to him. Why would anyone trust his memory to either confirm or disclaim a car based on this?

Motion cars that have actual invoice paperwork are certainly special vehicles, but stickers, valve covers, fender badges etc, etc don't necessarily make them real Motion car's. It is MY OPINION that Joel has blessed car's put together with catalog parts / insufficient evidence or perhaps because he has had a personal relationship with the owner/buyer/seller.

Again, this is only my opinion, but I feel certain that I'm not the only one who feels that some of the 'letter documented' cars are not real.

[69LM1]

At least Dan got a &quot;maybe&quot; letter. I agree, the ad could have been worded better, but I have seen Dan help many people find cars. Roger and his Dick Harrell COPO come to mind.

On the Curry X66 camaro we have, after the fee was paid and Joel determined that it &quot;could&quot; be, he refused to give any letter at all. I even stated that I would take a &quot;no&quot; letter.

For that kind of money I would expect something in writing, yes, no or maybe. Something. No would have been just fine.

Was'nt there something about a Chevelle a while back that got a no or a maybe and then when it changed hands became a documented Phase III car? Memory could be off, and I am sure I don't have the facts but maybe someone here can refresh me?

Rich Pern