Window Stickers

[Lee Stewart]

Originally Posted by fsc66

Very good Lee, so follow me here. Let's use a similar scenario that we are all familiar with, sports. You have an old baseball and get one of the old players to sign it. There are always at sport shows and charge for each autograph. You get your old ball signed and pay the baseball player. Is the baseball player a fraud and is he perpetuating fraud for signing an old ball knowing full well that he now brought increased value to the ball? I think not. Now, if you try to sell the ball and give the impression that the ball was signed years ago making it even more valuable, then you fail the integrity test and ethics test, now don't you.

Paul

Sure - you would fail . . . but you would also have an old baseball signed by an old pro just like I would have Mr. Author's very first book . . . in hardcover, in good condition, a First Edition signed by Mr. Author himself whose signature (like your old pro) can be verified by a signature expert.

Books like this don't come up for sale very often you know. Here is a chance to own one especially if you are an avid fan of Mr. Author. The price is a reasonable $2500 and I will guarantee in writing that the signature is his or I will refund 100% your money plus your shipping expense.

The lure of easy money skirting a very fine line - hard to resist isn't it?

[fsc66]

Yep, Lee but you nor I would do that. Unethical people will practice unethical behavior and that will always be the issue here. I wish more people would be cognizant of what they are buying and check things out before they purchase. But greed and selfishness act as catalysts to a fast buck for some people if when it's too good to be true.

Me

[Lee Stewart]

Maybe I don't quite understand the value of a Window Sticker when it comes to the pedigree of a car. How much emphasis is placed on having a real one if that is the only documentation that goes with the car? Oh sure - I understand what it shows but I would think that other documentation like the Build Sheet would be more valuable. Isn't that like a car's "Birth Certificate?"

There will never be a "meeting of the minds" on the issue of reproduction Window Stickers. Like many things in life, what is created for show and enjoyment purposes can be used to defraud the unsuspecting and uneducated.

[ZLP955]

The condoning of this practice in the wider hobby and attempts to justify it as harmless seem starkly in contrast with the generally-accepted attitude towards other aspects like restamping, changing trim tags, rebodying (to defraud rather than restore). I respect the rights of others to do as they see fit, but I'll never understand the 'for' argument.
If a reproduction window sticker is created only for showing, or the owner's enjoyment (whatever that means), why is it so important that it be as close to an original as possible, in appearance and content, so that it's only detectable as fake to a very few experts or the recreator?

[HawkX66]

Originally Posted by ZLP955

The condoning of this practice in the wider hobby and attempts to justify it as harmless seem starkly in contrast with the generally-accepted attitude towards other aspects like restamping, changing trim tags, rebodying (to defraud rather than restore). I respect the rights of others to do as they see fit, but I'll never understand the 'for' argument.
If a reproduction window sticker is created only for showing, or the owner's enjoyment (whatever that means), why is it so important that it be as close to an original as possible, in appearance and content, so that it's only detectable as fake to a very few experts or the recreator?

That's why I laminated mine and didn't have it aged. I didn't need an exact replica and wasn't trying to fool anyone. Now for the difference between re-stamping and the window sticker I can't agree. The window sticker is a piece of paper and isn't the actual car although it is supposed to represent the car. Cloning is the attempt to make something that isn't in anyway shape or form one thing, be another. L78s are the new Z28 by the looks of things. They're popping up all over the place. If someone wanted to put "reproduction" on the back of the document or something, I could care less, but I wouldn't want to see it on the front.
Here's a for that you guys "might" understand. A collector with real documents that likes to show his car and likes to display the documents. Do you really think he should have to bring the one of a kind, irreplaceable, originals?

[ZLP955]

Originally Posted by HawkX66

A collector with real documents that likes to show his car and likes to display the documents. Do you really think he should have to bring the one of a kind, irreplaceable, originals?

What, alongside the one-of-a-kind, irreplaceable, original car that it belongs to? Yikes.
Maybe that guy could make a copy of the original window sticker and tell anyone that calls BS on it that the original is tucked away safely though. Doesn't have to pay for a fake document, and that scenario is easily comprehended by most.

[68l30]

I made a collage of all my documents and printed it on a 8.5" X11" and throw it on the dash. Nothing is complete enough to be copied, stolen or used by anyone else. Most people could care less, but some like the artistic touch.

BIG

[HawkX66]

Originally Posted by ZLP955

What, alongside the one-of-a-kind, irreplaceable, original car that it belongs to? Yikes.
Maybe that guy could make a copy of the original window sticker and tell anyone that calls BS on it that the original is tucked away safely though. Doesn't have to pay for a fake document, and that scenario is easily comprehended by most.

The original car I would hope is a little more sturdy than a 47+ year old piece of paper, but... You are correct, a simple photocopy should suffice in that scenario.

[fsc66]

You have no idea how many people keep their original documents locked in safes and safe deposit boxes. They make copies and ask to have those reproduced. Additionally, people want very poor condition documents to be reproduced, especially in the case of tank stickers on corvettes. Then we get requests from people who received their information from Vintage Vehicle Services in Canada and want reproduction documents created from that report, people having build sheets and/or tank stickers that want a window sticker created, etc.

Paul

[Big Block Bill]

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

Maybe I don't quite understand the value of a Window Sticker when it comes to the pedigree of a car. How much emphasis is placed on having a real one if that is the only documentation that goes with the car? Oh sure - I understand what it shows but I would think that other documentation like the Build Sheet would be more valuable. Isn't that like a car's "Birth Certificate?"

There will never be a "meeting of the minds" on the issue of reproduction Window Stickers. Like many things in life, what is created for show and enjoyment purposes can be used to defraud the unsuspecting and uneducated.

Being my LS-6 is an Arlington built car, it is next to impossible to find a REAL Build Sheet / "Birth Certificate" being (I am told) the only place they were placed was on the passenger side floor pan prior to sound insulation and carpet installation. So if the car went through the Midwest climate of rain, salt , and snow as my car did being an Illinois delivered car, the only other documentation would be a protect-o-plate or window sicker.

So I feel the original window sticker (which I have) is the only documentation that can prove it left the factory as a Black, White stripes, Black Bucket seat, M-22, 4:10 gear car. If I was lucky enough to have the original protect-o-plate, it would prove engine, transmission, and rear axle codes but not all the options it has like the AM / Stereo 8-track radio.

If this original window sticker was not with the car when I purchased it in January 2003, I would have never purchased it being I was only looking for a documented Black / Black Bucket seat LS-6, M-22 / 4:10 gear car.

Right or wrong, anyone can build anything they want and "Put Together" paperwork to prove what they have created. But when originally built, they are only what they left the factory as. I can only hope in my lifetime Chevrolet will model a program off of PHS or Marti that will prove every Camaro, Chevelle, full size Chevrolet, Nove and Corvette. If they did, we'd all be broke from building prisons to house all the Thief's in.

They are only born original once, and have only one real "Birth Certificate".

Bill

First
Bloomington Gold Survivor / Gold / Benchmark Award June 1990 / 1991
Unrestored 1967 Lynndale L-79 Roadster