Un-restored - Survivor 1969 L78 396 375hp Z11 Pace Car

[Sean]

Rick is a stand up guy very honest.

[mmcporter]

Great looking Pacer.

[L78 Fred]

Rick,
Thank you for the block picture and best wishes with the sale !

Chuck - Thank you for your input - so there are both 440 and 272 castings in the very early 69 model year- I was not aware of this before
ADMIN- Could you move my block questions to another area for further discussions as to when the changes occurred with the 69 Model year 396/375HP Blocks 440/272/854 castings
I have a T0905 JH 396/375 Block, 440 casting Dated _ 19 8 ( I will try to see if I can make out the first character) Vin 19W316193
I recently sold a T0418JH 396/375 Block 272 casting Dated 4 15 9 vin 19N637539
Thank you

[bergy]

I think that it was a good question Fred. If it was my car, I would want all of these comments with the car thread - the community helps to clear up any confusion on the part of a future buyer. It's also unusual (to me) to see the block VIN stamped with the leading "11N". I'm more used to seeing just "1N". The trans appears to be stamped "1N" (unless the first 1 is just not clear in the picture) - if the trans only has "1N", it would also be odd since the block & trans were usually stamped with the same gang.

[TXSS]

Originally Posted by bergy

I think that it was a good question Fred. If it was my car, I would want all of these comments with the car thread - the community helps to clear up any confusion on the part of a future buyer. It's also unusual (to me) to see the block VIN stamped with the leading "11N". I'm more used to seeing just "1N". The trans appears to be stamped "1N" (unless the first 1 is just not clear in the picture) - if the trans only has "1N", it would also be odd since the block & trans were usually stamped with the same gang.

Bergy and Fred

I agree I always like to air my cars out on this site as the input is informed and fare. That is why I put the statement in the ad regarding the block casting date.

The trans is actually stamped “19N” which is what I’m more use to seeing in a 69 car. The “11N” is an anomaly for sure and may be as simple as the gang not being set up correctly. I’ve seen lots a double stamps, misaligned stamps, stamps done backwards and upside down. It’s impossible to know exactly why it is the way it is. What I do know is when you compare the stampings to other stamping in the same period, look at all of the cars provenance it’s a righteous car with bulletproof docs.

Also, having the Pace Car options listed individually is really interesting and odd. I know having spoken to the original owners husband, yes the original owner was a woman and she owned a Texaco station. You can see that on the sales order. And having spoken to the owner of the dealership I learned a lot of interesting things about the car. One was that Hawkeye Chevrolet traded a Corvette to another dealership for the Pace Car. So that may have something to do with the Pace Car options being listed individually on the sales order.

Thanks for y’alls input

[the427king]

Weve seen there are typos on vin lists, so its not unusual to have human error on the line too

[the427king]

txss, Normally if something is obviously wrong,it usually means its right. No restamper would have a reason to think he needed to put two 1s .

[bergy]

Anyway - great car & a very fair price for such a rare piece. Good for you Rick for having the openness and honesty to post good pictures.

[iluv69s]

Beautiful car and great ad !

the 11N and 19N bother me... Ive always seen 19N... but more interesting is that the trans and blocked were stamped while bolted together and one right after another. Within seconds.
Hard to believe the GM worker changed dyes in between stamps. But anything could have happened I guess. broken dye after one stamp? realized the 11 was wrong and changed it ? (doubtful).

My brother retired form GM and his job for years was stamping the blocks and trans with the VINs. The workers dont care so much, believe me !!

GLWS

[TXSS]

Originally Posted by iluv69s

Beautiful car and great ad !

the 11N and 19N bother me... Ive always seen 19N... but more interesting is that the trans and blocked were stamped while bolted together and one right after another. Within seconds.
Hard to believe the GM worker changed dyes in between stamps. But anything could have happened I guess. broken dye after one stamp? realized the 11 was wrong and changed it ? (doubtful).

My brother retired form GM and his job for years was stamping the blocks and trans with the VINs. The workers dont care so much, believe me !!

GLWS

Interesting. So you're saying that the GM worker would not have changed the dye. He would have just keep stamping blocks with a broken or missing # 9? (doubtful).

Harder to believe is that someone savvy enough to have the correct dyes would be so incompetent as to stamp the wrong numbers on the block. I'd have to agree with Chuck "if something is obviously wrong, it usually means its right. No restamper would have a reason to think he needed to put two 1s" .

That's why provenance on a car is so important. It gives you more insight into a car than just the stamping. You can see who owned it, when, for how long and get an idea what they may have used the car for.


Like you said anything could happen.