Avoided disaster today

[napa68]

Had the same type of deal with a 69 Z recently. I only traveled 45 minutes for that.

I hate the idea of telling someone that something significant is not correct, but it's the right thing to do IMO

[GotGrunt]

Originally Posted by Richls5

The build date of the engine was to early too now that I look back at my texts. 2/22 is the date it says it was assembled. Every Chevelle I’ve owned that’s numbers matching the engine is atleast a month earlier than the cars build date not a week prior.

I had a Baltimore built 1972 Chevelle SS U-code years ago with one of the tightest grouping of parts I’ve ever seen.

5/30/72: engine assembly date with VIN & broach marks present
6/1/72: transmission assembly date with VIN present
5/25/72: rear end assembly date
06A build date on the trim tag

In my honest opinion and experience, the car and stamps were all legit. I figured the car may have been held up on the body side and possibly pushed into the second week of June or later. This was not a high dollar car that someone would have the incentive to go through all the trouble to fake.

[ELEFUNTMAN]

I drove from California to Illinois to pick up a 65 Stingray, owner said it was "matching numbers", put it on the lift, wrong trans, he also said no rust, it was horrible underneath, spliced brake lines, frame in bad shape. I said to him the frame is rusted real bad, so he taps the frame with his finger and says , no, can't put my finger through it! I learned rust evaluation is different depending on where you are from! I made an offer also, it was a blessing he didn't accept. Journey home with an empty trailer led me to a nice 67 coupe on Craigslist, the right one will come along!

[SS427]

Tonawanda stamp clearly a restamp. Great that you did not buy it.

I flew out to California to check out an LS6 convertible for Roger Rodas and Paul Walker that they had just purchased. 5 minutes after arriving I had to give them the bad news that it was once a small block Malibu. It was a beautiful restoration with great paperwork (fake). Even the best car enthusiasts/collectors get taken.

[the427king]

Need to be careful with some "inspectors". They see a buyer with money wanting a car , and rather than get thier inspection fee they see an opportunity to tell the buyer the car he is looking at is either no good or overpriced,so the inspector can push another car to him...ask the 2 members here that passed on my buddies copo only tp get a shiny clone. They were both sold fake showcars, but they did save 30k, and the inspector made 10 or 20k for himself .Great racket.Be careful

[SS427]

That is why you hire an honest and professional inspector and not a "flipper". One that is an expert on one or a couple of specific types of cars (in my case, 1970 Chevelles ONLY) instead of someone who will inspect anything for a buck. The only time I ever 'suggest' a client to pass is if the car is fake, restamped or has fake paperwork. If the car is a turd he will read that in my 11 page report. If it is overpriced, that is not for me to decide and is totally between the buyer and the seller.

[tom406]

I'm going to weigh in here since I've been doing appraisals since the mid 90's and specific pre-purchase inspections for the last decade or two and feel like my two cents might be relevant. The appraisal/inspection field is largely unregulated-the regulations that do exist vary from state to state and are mostly in the insurance claim realm. First and foremost, you need to interview and do some research on the person or company you're looking at hiring. The bulk of auto appraisers out there are geared toward the largest easiest market-evaluating late model damage claims. Many of the field inspectors don't know or understand vintage cars. However, many appraisers still come from a vintage car background-like me. You need to identify them and make sure they are on the same page as you as far as knowledge and what to look for.

I agree with Rick that someone with a good reputation who is an expert in a single marque or model are the ideal (and I would be the first in line to pay Rick if I was looking at buying a six figure LS6), but they are often booked out/unavailable. I will inspect any vehicle for my fee-but I'm clear with my customers about what vehicles I'm most familiar with and what my limitations are. I'm much more comfortable determining what is correct on a 1966 Corvette or Mustang compared to a 1966 Ferrari or Porsche, but I've been around enough to know what a "good" car is. For the purposes of this discussion, it might be time or money-wise to hire someone like me quickly and somewhat locally for less than $500 to determine whether or not the vehicle is worth securing a deposit, or justifies the effort and expense of putting someone like Rick, Roy Sinor, JM or Galen on a plane to perform a final inspection before transferring funds.

This is another area where inspectors have to have scruples. I've spoken about how I can't just buy the the cars I'm hired to look at without a glaring conflict of interest. As Rick says, if I'm hired to look at a car, my job is to look at the car-not tell them where a better car or a better deal is. That's a different job. I've only offered up "options" after they pass on the vehicle at hand and later explicitly ask me for recommendations, which typically only comes after my report has displayed my expertise and judgement in a way that resonates.

Finally, don't be afraid to still interview people with great reps and listen to your gut if you feel like you're being sold some magic beans. The wheel&deal side of this hobby is seductive and it is absolutely intoxicating when it is lucrative. There are some very knowledgable restorers out there whose quality and correctness standards didn't necessarily stay consistent after they started brokering cars more than they restored them.

[SS427]

In addition to what Tom stated, check out inspector's references and Google them as well and know up front what you are getting for your money. I have been asked several times over the years (for a LARGE sum of cash money) to look the other way on some inspections and to not mention some of the bad things I found (restamped drivetrain, fake paperwork, rebody or known history of the car) on my report. If you come across ANY inspector who would take these bribes, my advice to you would be to run and run quickly. It won't be long before these inspectors reputations will follow them and after a while ALL their inspections will be questioned and people will second guess every car with their stamp of approval on it. That car could be yours. It has happened in the past and will happen again. I can guarantee if I ever have actual in hand proof of this happening I will publicly bury them. It floors me when I see prominent members of this hobby stooping to this level and once again, all over the proverbial dollar meanwhile likely screwing one of their friends who might be the one to later purchase one of these cars. Inspectors can save you tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars on a possible purchase so it is very wise to hire one, just make sure you know who you are getting. Cheaper is not always better and the very expensive ones sometimes come with a catch. About a year ago I was told by someone that he hires "X" to do his inspections because he will certify their car as being real no matter what it takes. Seriously?

[carnut4life]

I feel your pain Rich. I've been looking for a "real" red or gray LS5/M22 equipped 70 Chevelle for two years now and 5 of the 6 cars I've looked at have been listed as #'s matching or having a build sheet to document them have turned out to be a re-stamp or the build sheet is fake. The real one I found on craigslist had some poor floor and trunk repairs done before the seller bought it so I passed figuring I'd regret it later. I'm starting to wonder if I made a mistake letting this one go? It had a nice build sheet and window sticker and the M22 was the only major part that wasn't "born with" but at least it was a 71 CT warranty replacement.

Most, but not all 70 Chevelle's I see offered for sale today are built up cars by shops looking to capitalize on the current trend of many buyers not caring if the car is real or documented as long as it's pretty. An individual has to be willing to spend significant time studying critical details I won't mention here or pay someone who is an expert to make sure your getting what's advertised. I think there are officially more 70 Chevelle Super Sports out there now than what Chevrolet built, just took them a while to catch up to the 69 Z/28's. Do your homework and be very careful if your looking for one of these cars, it's truly a jungle out there!

[Richls5]

the dealers are making it impossible to find them too. theres hardly any private sellers and if there is a dealer scoops the car up instantly and then has it listed a week later for 20-30K more