1967 Impala SS427 L-72?

[sYc]

I have quizzed Jim about this very matter, and he said there would be no firestorm within GM. GM/PHS has never had to appear as a witness in court, as the documents they provide are legal documents, permissable as evidence.

[Verne_Frantz]

I'll just say it was your attitude that got to me. <span style="font-weight: bold">&quot;I've got my sources&quot;</span>

[njsteve]

Why do people always think there is some type of Area 51 alien conspiracy about not having Chevy records? It was GM's largest division and there would have been literally tons of records that they had no need for, and certainly no extra money to pay for archiving. (sadly).

The smaller divisions like Pontiac were able to save their records due to their small size in relation to Chevrolet. And that is exactly why they were saved, thankfully.

So guys, please dont bring up the old &quot;Chevrolet is trying to prevent lawsuits against them for clones that will be revealed&quot; argument. It has absolutely no basis in reality. (I tell you that as a lawyer and a car guy).

In fact, as these records are considered under the &quot;business records exception&quot; under the rules of evidence, GM would have loved to have gotten paid $100 a pop for the certified copies of each record they could provide for any case. Even better still, getting paid an expert witness fee to provide an actual person to testify to the document would be an even bigger windfall.

Maybe we can start a new reality TV series: Clone Hunters, like the cheesy Ghost Hunter and Bigfoot Hunter TV shows. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img]

[442w30]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Verne_Frantz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll just say it was your attitude that got to me. <span style="font-weight: bold">&quot;I've got my sources&quot;</span> </div></div>

There's no attitude there. I just happen to know someone in-the-know, but I don't think I'm at liberty to say who this or the other person is. It was my understanding that it was common knowledge that they existed but red tape was holding it back.

[69LM1]

I can tell you for a <span style="text-decoration: underline">fact</span> that the NICB has a field for horsepower as well as delivering dealer on their form/fiche. Not every form has the HP field filled and not every form has the dealer but many do.

When I was working with CarFax a few years ago to broker a deal with them and the database contractor they use to access the data and CarFax wanted some idea on market desire, I posted on a few sites about who would be interested and how much would they pay for a report. I posted a copy of a report on one of my cars. This was the REAL report from the DB contractor that accessed the fiche and created the database, on their forms, not some verbal from an officer or screen print.

The NICB got several calls threatening lawsuits and thereafter broke off negotiations with us.

The ONE physical report that I was able to get had that info on it and I got a cease and desist call from the officer via the NICB to remove the report image at once.

Why are so many people afriad of any info being made public? Why is the NICB, who could make a mint off of these reports so afraid to release the information?

RichPern

[njsteve]

Probably because the National Insurance Crime Bureau also collects claims data, which in many cases involves intertwined medical insurance claims that are linked with a particular vehicle's VIN. The moment you mention medical claims, then the Federal HIPAA laws on medical record privacy comes into play. Read that as BIG penalties for revealing personal information. That is probably why they went running scared, even though it is so far away from even being remotely related, it could still be a billion to one possibility. And sadly, that is too close to reality for them.

[Ivan]

I own this car in question and I believe it is real. Very well respected experts who have actually seen the car seem to agree. You can't deny that. 992 points at The 2011 Muscle Car and Corvette Nationals says something. Donny in all due respect have you seen the car in person? If you have you have never mentioned that fact in any of your posts on any forum. And what qualifications do you have that tower over Alan Colvin and the judges of MCCN including Bill Braun who is the chief judge of MCCN? No disrespect but what are your qualifications? Why are you not a judge on the authenticity of these special cars? Or are you? I want the facts and the truth. I am not crying fraud or am I a expert by any means. Of course since I own the car I want it to be real. And since you don't you want it to be a fake.
The date code on the block confirm it was built very late in 66'. Would that be a 68' motor? The answer is no. It is a 67' motor. It also is stamped &quot;ID&quot; which confirms it is one of the 11 of 17 built in 1967. The other 6 were stamped &quot;IK&quot;. The GM bulletin was issued in March of 1967 stating the motor will be available in the beginning of April of 67'. 1967 Impalas were still being built in July of 67'. The car was built in the 5th week of May of 67'. Therefore it is very possible that a L-72 was installed in a 67' Impala. All the dates make sense. Also there is a picture of the L-72 in the full size 1967 assembly manual that actually shows the L-72 diagram. There is no &quot;cancelled&quot; to be found on any of the pages that reference this motor for the 67' model year. Also about the &quot;4D&quot; on the data plate. It has been verified by a build sheet on a true 1967 Impala SS/427 that the data plate did not have the stamp '4D&quot; but was a real SS/427. Maybe some plants or maybe only one used that code. You have no proof they all had that stamp and it was proven you were wrong by a build sheet. Explain that one Donny. This particular car was built in Los Angeles. These are all undeniable FACTS!
I talked to the owner of the car and I was told the reason this car surfaced decades after is that he had no knowledge himself that the car existed even though it was sitting in his backyard. Yes he owned the car and he knew it was a 427/425 L-72 but when he discovered that the 11 of the 17 motors built for the 67' model year had a stamp of &quot;ID&quot; he decided to take a stroll to the car to check. Shazam!! That is where it begins. He thought the previous owner might have installed a different motor from the original. He now knew he was wrong all these years. And what about that second car that someone by the name of Danny Z. claims he owned and purchased through the Chevrolet. Here is his post:

&quot;I had one when I worked at Chevrolet Engineering - tagged it for employee purchase the day it arrived in the Company Car Fleet garage; L-72 4-speed SS427, special-ordered by Engineering for Chassis Development. It hit the 3,000-mile mark in December, and I bought it and drove it home just before Christmas; sold it in Flint a couple of years later.
Removed the &quot;Special Order&quot; tag from the left side front fender reinforcement and put it in my rollaway just before I sold it, still have the tag - photo below. There may not have been any L-72 SS427's built on dealer order for retail sale, but there was at least one built for Engineering; I bought several sets of rear tires for it in the two years I owned it.&quot;

Bottom line is I respect everyone including Donny. I am again by no means a expert but I do have common sense. The fact is that the build sheet, protecto-plate, and or the original dealer invoice will may never be found on this car. If was available it would have most likely already surfaced. But does that mean this car is not the real deal? The answer is there is no right or wrong answer to that question. The facts prove that this can very well be a real deal. There is too many FACTS pointing in that direction. I am a firm on my belief it is real because I go by facts. For those who scream fraud just think that even you know Chevrolet kept poor records back in those days. You know that the build sheet can have very well be thrown away at the end of the assembly line. How many of today's classics actually have the build sheet that comes with the car? And how many dealer invoices come with all the classic cars on the planet today? Maybe 10% ? Come on you have to admit it is possible and with all the facts that pertain to this specific car it is highly likely this IS THE REAL DEAL&quot;.

[Ivan]

Also may I ad those dealer pocket price books for 1967 were distributed in 1966 for the 1967 model year were they not? Show me a dealer price pocket book that dates after the March 1967 service bulletin that clearly states the L-72 will not be available for all cars built after 4/3/1967. Any pocket books dated prior to the service bulletin can not be used as evidence. Would this explain why the L-72 is not in the pocket price book? Of course it does.........

[galveston]

Ivan, congrats on your purchase, A lot of the questions you have may be best answered by Warren Leunig who runs the SS427 registry and can be found on the SS427 message board website, Donny Bock is also there.

[ss427copo]

All I can tell you all is this. After taking my 69 Camaro to the Norwood Reunion last July that was hosted by author and Norwood expert Phil Borris, and listening to the workers and their stories about that facility, don't ever say &quot;that was never done at the factory&quot;. These ladies and gentlemen told stories about the cars that came out of Fisher Body and Chevrolet that would blow away all the so-called experts claims of authenticity.

As an example, workers would run out of parts and improvise. Camaros and Firebirds came out of Fisher Body with a floor pan for a column shift Camaro and the chassis was assembled with a 4-sp. What did they do? They called for a guy named Chisel Man. He had 25 seconds to make a hole where there was none. Another was how employees who had ordered cars would have options installed that WERE NOT on the order paperwork by friends &quot;on the line&quot;. True stories.

So, while some of you &quot;experts&quot; will contradict the authenticity, remember, sh*t happened on the line that unless you were there, don't ever say never! ANYTHING was possible.

ps. I won't even get into the Canadian Built SS 427 that I sold a couple of years ago!