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#41
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Re: ZL1 #9 Barrett Jackson - Where's Waldo
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mockingbird812</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, tuff crowd. I don't know George but some of you really seem to have it in for him. I still stand by my first post in this thread. George made it quite clear that he used another body on this car due to its race history. Don't think George has to do anything to his listing. If you are a potential buyer give him a call if you are not sure if it is a rebody! </div></div>
Sam...Wouldn't you agree that it would make things much simpler, cleaner and most of the arguing would go away if he would just use "Rebody" in the description ? George did not use another body. Floyd Garrett did and he calls it a "Rebody" It is not "quite clear" until it is called a "Rebody" When it is marketed as a "Rebody" I'm sure we will all be rooting for George to hit a homerun.
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#42
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Re: ZL1 #9 Barrett Jackson - Where's Waldo
Charley - you are correct in that I mistakenly stated that "<span style="font-style: italic">George</span> made it clear that <span style="font-style: italic">he</span> used another body..." In my mind, George's use of terms regarding another body being used in the restoration are clear enough to me, that an average Joe would understand that this car does NOT have its original body. There is a relatively fine line between mincing words and telling the truth particularly when it comes to these high end cars (i.e. does numbers matching = original engine in our hobby?). IMO, George has not crossed into the realm of mincing words, he has merely used another selection of words to describe his car as not having been restored with the original body.
For the record: my comments are only pertaining to this thread.
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Sam... |
#43
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Re: ZL1 #9 Barrett Jackson - Where's Waldo
I agree that the term "rebody" would be more accurate when that is what happened, so why not state it exactly as that?
On another note, why, <span style="font-size: 11pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">when properly disclosed</span></span>, is this (and to open another Pandora's box), are clones such a big deal? The ZL-1, COPOs, and Z/28's etc. were just Camaro options, not specific cars hand-built or even have boxed sections like the torque boxes on Hemi cars. All they did was add options to a regular Camaro coming down the line, right? The options were only add-ons and could have been added to any 6 cylinder Grandma-spec Camaro on the line, no? [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif[/img]
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1968 Camaro Ex-ISCA Show Car John 10:30 |
#44
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Re: ZL1 #9 Barrett Jackson - Where's Waldo
This is not a discussion against George.
However, the main point is getting very diluted. His first post regarding this ZL1 basically told us that he had researched and inspected the car and that 'basically" it had no issues, and that it was NOT a rebody. "The real Body" are his words. There are many here who knew and were told different, either directly or indirectly by Floyd Garret. Then once questions were asked, we were told that all the info would be disclosed here, as well as properly represented at auction. This discussion is taking place <span style="font-weight: bold">PRIOR</span> to the car going across the block and ownership changing hands. |
#45
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Re: ZL1 #9 Barrett Jackson - Where's Waldo
Originally Posted By: mockingbird812Wow, tuff crowd. I don't know George but some of you really seem to have it in for him. I still stand by my first post in this thread. George made it quite clear that he used another body on this car due to its race history. Don't think George has to do anything to his listing. If you are a potential buyer give him a call if you are not sure if it is a rebody!
Sam...Wouldn't you agree that it would make things much simpler, cleaner and most of the arguing would go away if he would just use "Rebody" in the description ? George did not use another body. Floyd Garrett did and he calls it a "Rebody" It is not "quite clear" until it is called a "Rebody" When it is marketed as a "Rebody" I'm sure we will all be rooting for George to hit a homerun. Not in reference to Georges car.......But....It seems a lot of cars in the past had their descriptions put together by Lawyers.......After you read it, you still didn't have a clear concise interpitation of what was being said......Like the 1966 Nickey Nova from a couple of years ago that (according to the factory window sticker) had 15" tires from the factory and the "Factory" Nickey option.....LOL
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The Best things in life......Aren't Things |
#46
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Re: ZL1 #9 Barrett Jackson - Where's Waldo
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mockingbird812</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, tuff crowd. I don't know George but some of you really seem to have it in for him. I still stand by my first post in this thread. George made it quite clear that he used another body on this car due to its race history. Don't think George has to do anything to his listing. If you are a potential buyer give him a call if you are not sure if it is a rebody! </div></div>
Hey Sam, just for clarification, George’s first post specifically stated the car was not a rebody and he had done extensive research to come to that conclusion. It was only through the efforts of this site (at this point we may be beating a dead horse) and the many posts which initiated the change in description. Some will argue the description is not clear enough now, but it should be very clear to everyone reading the many posts that it is a rebody. Again if it were not for this site and the threads/posts that have followed we may not have found out the extent of the "restoration". George was concise, clear and convinced of what the car was initially; as well as very convincing. It is interesting how very clear it was made in the post below that the car was NOT a rebody or half clip. Why not make the new findings clear that in fact its a rebody now? This is his first post selling and promoting the car: "Greetings All ! I have made the decision to consign my ZL1 to the January auction and would like the members to know my intentions and what I know of this car. It is #9 of the 69 produced, Fred Gibb car, Silver/Black Automatic. Outstanding very high quality restoration completed in the mid 90's, looks to have many excellent NOS pieces and a goal of assembly line correctness except for way over GM quality paint. <span style="font-weight: bold">I have spent much time researching this car to be able to represent it honestly.</span> I will specify a few points of importance but I welcome any inquires prior to the sale and I will gladly share all I have. 1. A real car with clear owner history from new, I have tracked it myself. 2. The real body, NOS quarters & wheelhouses replaced from Drag mods. 3. A real ZL1 motor, NOT the original to the car. 4. Mechanically sorted by me, runs & drives as it should. 5. Previously done Cunneen Report, very concise, very positive opinion. 6. Car did sell in 2006 at auction for over $450,000. Not relevant today. 7. Car needs NOTHING, killer just refreshed condition, appears as new restoration. And let me clear up one thing before question arises: Yes, this is the car that was in a fire in the Midwest years ago. Building burned, car had damage but mostly cosmetic, paint etc. <span style="font-weight: bold">Car did NOT get "clipped" or rebodied, it got re-restored </span>and photos of building and car are available. <span style="font-weight: bold">Believe me, I did my research prior to writing my check I assure you.</span>So there you have it. Price ???? Who knows, we shall see. My gut is when the quality of this car is viewed it will do all a ZL1 is worth. This is a GOOD car. Don't hesitate to contact me if you have interest or questions. Thank You, George Lyons Erie, PA 814-450-0926"
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Steve Shauger The Supercar Registry www.yenko.net Vintage Certification™ , Providing Recognition to Unrestored Muscle Cars. Website: www.vintagecertification.com |
#47
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Re: ZL1 #9 Barrett Jackson - Where's Waldo
----Im pretty darn sure you guys wont have George around here to bring all this stuff up to anymore. Take your problems up with him at B-J if you are so inclined......Bill S
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#48
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Re: ZL1 #9 Barrett Jackson - Where's Waldo
Nothing else worthwhile is being said here. If George or someone with something constructive to says needs it unlocked they can contact me.
George says he has pictures that show details that he says he will display at the auction but not show here. Maybe it will prove his case, maybe it won't. The only reason I can think of that he won't post them here is because it won't prove his case. I hope it does but in the mean time I will make these threads "sticky" so they stay visible in the forums. I was informed this morning Jan 12 that local ads today don't even include the body shell disclosure. |
#49
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“A GM factory-assembled body shell was used to correct the extensive body modifications performed during this car's long-term drag-race history”
It’s like Fonzie trying to say “wrong” - just say rebody. https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Even...ARO-ZL1-271809 |
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#50
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Quote:
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70Z28 04B Norwood Forest Green-white Stripes Black DeLuxe Interior Owned since 1978 - First Car |
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