Verne Frantz's 63 Impala Anniversary SURVIVOR

[Belair62]

I made this thread a sticky for a while since there was some neat info coming in from Moparts....

[Verne_Frantz]

Hello Mo,
I was planning to send more questions for your Dad directly to you, but Belair put this here since so many people seem to relish the history he has to offer. So, here are a couple, if you wouldn't mind relaying them to him.

1. During the '63 model year, Chevrolet stopped painting the firewalls body color and switched to a semi-gloss black. I've tracked down when this change happened at all the plants to, in some cases, just a day or two of production. At the St. Louis plant I know it was done between the 2nd week of Dec. and the 3rd week of January. I was wondering if your Dad remembered this change and if he could describe the new process somewhat. For instance, was the firewall done first, then masked with a formed template of some kind when the body was painted, or was the body painted first, with or without a masking, then the semi-gloss firewall?
I've never discovered any body color overspray around the edges of the firewall under the black (or vice-versa).


By the way, the Atlanta plant was completely screwed up. They never changed over and stuck to it. I have cars in my database all the way to the end of production with original firewalls BOTH ways! Let me guess......when they sent your Dad around to trouble shoot paint problems, I wonder how many trips he made to Atlanta....

Tell ya what. I'll just leave it go at this one for now, Mo. Let's keep your Dad's mind active now..


Thanks
Verne.

[Paul_S]

I have one question about the semi-gloss black paint while we're on it. Since the change-over (or say '64+ on any body style) how often was it known to happen that a car would get body color floors and not semi-gloss black? I've seen factory pics and original cars like this and know of one guy who went out of his way to repaint his floors black to earn the points lost at a show. Was it just a supply, equipment or plant issue or what?

Thanks, Paul

[sYc]

According to Mo's dad, the body color was applied first, with the firewall painted next. A special device was used to protect the jams from over spray. Edwin drew me a pic of this piece and explained where it went, and how.

[Paul_S]

I remember reading in NNN about how the cars were built at Norwood. They said (as SYC mentioned) that the firewall & floors were painted, then the body. If there was a paint issue, the car was pulled and repaired. One Nova I had ('64) had original body color overspray on the firewall and a layering of black/body color/black under it. I figured the body/cowl needed a touch-up, then they re-shot the firewall. Somewhere in the mix was some of the dash paint. -I think it was first.

[moparts]

Ok.
Body color painted first.

Paint was then baked in the oven.

Car then went through the anti-rust booth.

Firewall was then sprayed using a sheild around the front.

The firewall paint was not baked on.
This happened just before the car went into trim.

They didn't change the way the car was painted, they just added painting the firewall a different color.

Dad thinks this was done to make sure that area had a complete covering of paint. The firewall area wasn't a major focus point when painting the rest of the car. He said something about the paint being a fast drying paint (and maby a rust inhibitor) because the time from the anti-rust booth and trim wasn't long enough for regular paint to dry without a oven. This even makes sense that they would do it in the anti-rust section.

Dad thinks that the change at St. Louis possibly coinsided with the opening of their new addition to the plant.

On firewall not being painted here was the reply.....if one got missed for some reason (like running out of paint) they would NOT have shut down the line to fix it. Any cars that went by in that time just may have not got painted. This would also apply to other non critial area's, such as anti-rust.

Dad said he spent most of his time in Detroit fixing their paint problems.

Now this part I asked him. If the firewall was painted after, then did they remark any of the paint codes? Answer : Any of the paint codes should be under the body color and firewall paint. After the car left anti-rust they had the build sheets to go by.

Hope this helps.

[Verne_Frantz]

Mo,
Tell your Dad THANKS!

One thing leaves me a little confused. I've seen many original firewalls that clearly show the crayoned paint or trim codes (sometimes option codes). I wonder if that's just because the paint didn't stick to the crayon ("grease marker"), and overtime, the paint just disappeared from the moisture and elements. When I've seen those on an original car, I sure didn't wipe them off to see if there was paint or bare metal under them. I left them alone!

It sounds like you're saying that back when the whole car was painted one color, including the firewall, the firewall was skipped until after the bake oven, then it was shot. I wonder why they wouldn't have shot the whole thing at the same time while the "gun was in hand".

I'll post a couple more questions in a bit, if that's ok. Like Tom C., I could spend hours with your Dad and not run out of questions. The history and the truth are SOOOO important.

Verne.

[moparts]

[ QUOTE ]
It sounds like you're saying that back when the whole car was painted one color, including the firewall, the firewall was skipped until after the bake oven, then it was shot. I wonder why they wouldn't have shot the whole thing at the same time while the "gun was in hand".

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok.
Body color painted first.

Paint was then baked in the oven.

Car then went through the anti-rust booth.

Firewall was then sprayed using a sheild around the front.

The firewall paint was not baked on.
This happened just before the car went into trim.

They didn't change the way the car was painted, they just added painting the firewall a different color.


[/ QUOTE ]

That was dads recalling of how it was after the change,
sorry about the confusion.

They did paint the whole thing at the same time at first.

The way I understand dad is it wasn't really skipped, it just wasn't worried about since it was a area that wasn't seen. But it was painted with the rest of the car. It was after they started painting it black that it was painted later. The other thing to remember is the cars were coming off the line at a rate of 1 per min. so painting the firewall in the anti-rust booth probally gave them some more time.

[ QUOTE ]
One thing leaves me a little confused. I've seen many original firewalls that clearly show the crayoned paint or trim codes (sometimes option codes). I wonder if that's just because the paint didn't stick to the crayon ("grease marker"), and overtime, the paint just disappeared from the moisture and elements. When I've seen those on an original car, I sure didn't wipe them off to see if there was paint or bare metal under them. I left them alone!


[/ QUOTE ]

I asked dad that same question and he put it this way, the reason for the marks is because the build sheets did not go through the paint booth with the car. So the marks were there to tell them what the car got as far as paint and trim. They were definetly painted over. I am not sure what going through a oven would do to paint over a grease pen.
And dad doesn't really know much about what happened after the car left his area. Someone out there that worked later down the line might know of some of the other happenings.

[Verne_Frantz]

Thanks again, Mo.
I'm learning more and more.
If you don't mind, I have a question about the primer.
The red oxide primer (like seen under my '63 in this thread) seems to be everywhere, even in places where it would be hard to cover by spraying. I'm embarassed that I don't already know this, but were the bodies dipped in that primer, rather than sprayed?
The lower recesses of the floor pans have oval shaped galvanized plates (about 3" by 4") screwed down, with sealer, to cover holes in the floors. I'm suspecting those were drain holes for the "dip". These plates never have any primer on them, although the ones in the trunk were covered with the water based spatter paint.
I suppose they "could" have been used with the jig to position the floor sections before welding them together, but I'd doubt that.

Can you continue this educational exercise and add some knowledge here?
Thanks

Verne.

[moparts]

I will ask dad to make sure but I am pretty sure they were dipped in primer. I am pretty sure their name for primer was bondrite.