Kevin Hand Collector Car Collection at Auction

[iluv69s]

Stefano...I appreciate your response..the fact that you did not answer my specific question asking if private verbal/handshake deals are ever made between auctioneers and sellers ín order to protect the sellers speaks for itself.

I am 98% certain that I remember a thread regarding this. I do not know what the big secret is now. In my last thread, I asked if this ever happens..not any specific dealings with any specific auction company or persons. Unfortunatly, I am terrible at searching these forums or I would search and copy the post where one of the posters on this thread stated that a deal had been made between auctioneer and seller as to guaranteeing a minimum total sale price protecting the seller of the blue RS ZL-1. (If I am misquoting You, I apologize)
By not answering my question it only leaves doubt in my mind and sure as heck makes me feel like some shenanigans may occur during some these auctions.After the RG fiasco with the ZL-1 and hearing about this, I sure as heck will steer clear of the whole auction venue in the future....

And Matt...with all due respect, as far as your quote....I don't care what kind of hand shake or verbal deal you have¨

Regardless if at an auction or anywhere else in life...When did a man´s word stop meaning anything?? My word is my character..I stand by it. Am I the only one here that disagrees with this statement??

If Kevin had a verbal agreement with the auction company and it was not witheld, I think he has every right to be very upset.
Verbal agreements are binding contracts in a court of law.

again, jmhi Max

[Fast67VelleN2O]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: iluv69s</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
And Matt...with all due respect, as far as your quote....I don't care what kind of hand shake or verbal deal you have¨

Regardless if at an auction or anywhere else in life...When did a man´s word stop meaning anything?? My word is my character..I stand by it. Am I the only one here that disagrees with this statement??

If Kevin had a verbal agreement with the auction company and it was not witheld, I think he has every right to be very upset.
Verbal agreements are binding contracts in a court of law.

again, jmhi Max </div></div>

Sad to say but in this day in age this isn't the case anymore. People don't take &quot;their word&quot; seriously. I find it hard these days to find anyone that sticks to their word.

-Matt

[Stefano]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: iluv69s</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Stefano...I appreciate your response..the fact that you did not answer my specific question asking if private verbal/handshake deals are ever made between auctioneers and sellers ín order to protect the sellers speaks for itself.

</div></div>

I thought I did answer that question prior?

&quot;There was absolutely no agreement with me or R&amp;S to protect any of your cars, prior to the auction.&quot;

I have a series of texts and emails regarding this situation and not once is there a discussion of a guarantee or protection. We did however discuss estimated expectations for the collection.

I am not a lawyer and don't want to pretend to be one.

I personally do not recall EVER consigning a car to a collector car auction, on just a handshake and without a written contract, nor have I ever seen a reason not to have one? They are designed to protect both buyers and sellers from any such issues and clearly spell out the terms, between all of the parties involved.

The contracts have certainly changed over time, but all I have seen have the standard legal clauses in which the only valid contract is that which is in writing and any verbal agreements are null and void, unless put in writing.

R&amp;S would not accept a no reserve vehicle with a buy back option. There was no deal verbal or written to protect any of Kevin's cars with the auction.

If and when a &quot;reserve&quot; deal is changed on the block a new contract is signed right then and there.

&quot;Regardless if at an auction or anywhere else in life...When did a man´s word stop meaning anything?? My word is my character..I stand by it. Am I the only one here that disagrees with this statement??&quot;

We stand by our word, always have and always will!

Our family has had a dealer licence for over 30 years, we have baught, built, restored and sold more than just a few cars.

[Stefano]

&quot;Hit me and I'll sue. Always the same answer.Oh by the way I see you sent your boy over here to print off the whole thread don't forget I did the same and throwing around the alcohol/drunk inuendos don't help you much.&quot;

Has anyone threatened anyone else with legal action at this point. I know that I haven't?

[sYc]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 70 Forest Green Zee</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fast67VelleN2O</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't care what kind of hand shake or verbal deal you have with someone prior to your car going across the auction block. If it is going through at NO RESERVE, you should expect that something may happen where someone would actually win it at less than what you would like to get it for.

Why run it at NO RESERVE if you want a minimum amout for the car? The only person at fault here is the SELLER. No one else. </div></div>

I agree with this 100% If the seller had a set minimum price he wanted for this car, he should have run it with a reserve plain and simple. He chose not to and got less than he expected....sorry but it's the sellers own fault and he has no reason to be complaining here, it's his own fault!!!


</div></div>

Pretty much sums it up.

[tom406]

I think there's a definite place for &quot;no reserve&quot; at the auctions. No reserve is a higher risk but potentially high reward option. Auctions are not like the car corral at a swap meet. There's a living, breathing aspect to them that is unique. &quot;No reserve&quot; tells buyers that the car is GOING TO SELL and it COULD BE YOU. On a car such as this, a seller would hope that a veritable CROWD of people will bid it up intially and that eventually, 2 or 3 people with big checkbooks, healthy egos, and a perhaps a couple of gin and tonics will feel the NEED to own that car. The energy in the room, as much as the car itself, often drives the notably big numbers.
If there 5 cars in a row that don't hit their reserve, you can FEEL the energy leave the room. You can see the people check their phones and head to the bar.
I think &quot;no reserve&quot; is still a very effective strategy for larger, quality collections being thinned or liquidated. It gets the people there, interested, and the energy stays up. Plus you have to look at your total take, and compare it to your expectations. Most dealers I know that bring cars to auction regularly bring a half dozen. One or two (often unexpectedly) ring the bell, one or two take it in the chin, and the rest do OK. They average out. If you obsess about the ones that went &quot;cheap&quot;, its not the venue or strategy for you. There will ALWAYS be a similar but markedly inferior car to yours that will bring more money, often at the same auction. Why? Because its an auction, and thats how it goes. If you just have one car, you don't have the luxury of averaging out, you might just be left crying in your beer. Or throwing it, if thats how you roll.
If there wasn't a benefit to running no reserve, there wouldn't be talk about secret backdoor deals. Deals that offer the perks of &quot;no reserve&quot; but eliminate the risk. But unless you ran a major bank during the last 10 years, you really can't have it both ways, can you?

JMO
TOM

[iluv69s]

Stefano, I appreciate your response and I realize that You in fact did state that there was not any deal made to protect THIS car. But I have also read the other side of the story that seems to state there was in-fact a deal made. That is why I asked if these type of deals are EVER made at other auctions that You are aware of, which I do not recall seeing a response. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Maybe somone can find the thread on the blue RS ZL-1. I am curios if the auctioneers agreement to protect the sellers total sale price was a written agreement or just a verbal agreement. Based on what You are asying, it must have been a written agreement, AND IF SO, I THINK THAT SHOULD BE TOLD TO ALL POTENTIAL BUYERS BEFORE WASTING THIER TIME ON A NO-RESERVE AUCTION THAT IS NOT REALLY A NO-RESERVE AUCTION.


I want to make this perfectly clear. Of all the car dealers that I have run across, be it on the internet or in person or publications, based on everything I have seen and heard, You are one of, if not THE most respected muscle/classic car dealers that I have run across. Like Matt said, in this day and age, it is difficult to find someone that puts thier word before the mighty dollar.

Believe me, I am apalled that these type of buy back deals are (possibly) made between sellers and the auction companies. That is the reason I was trying to bring them to light, if in-fact they do exist. I do not think it is fair to someone who spends thier time and money to travel to a no-reserve auction only to see the car of thier dreams bought back by the owner or an agent of him or the auction company.

This is not about defending anyone or picking sides for me..

Obviuosly Kevin made a big mistake..whether it was to place his car in a no-reserve auction or whether it was trusting someones elses word without a written contract, éither way it was HIS mistake. At this point it is a matter of he said-she said.




And Tom C, I believe Kevin was responding to another members post asking the question why he put the car on a no-reserve auction..at which time he explained his side of the story. Who better to respond than Kevin himself? Although I tend to believe Stefano because of everything I have known about him over the years, It is obvious that Kevin feels that there may have been some kind of deal made. Is it possible that Stefano was not aware of such deal???...

And I totally agree with Tom406 on the no-reserve aspect..many decisions have been made/changed as to the amount someone is willing to pay for a car at the moment the car is on the block. Especially when they know that just one more bid may take the car of thier dreams home. Believe me, when the camera at the BJ auction arrives in front of a potential buyer, especially if he is with his wife/girlfriend/family, at times ego takes over and some cars sell for riduculous money...everyone wants to be a TV star. I have personally attended auctions and ended up bidding more than I originally told myself I was going to bid at the moment the item was on the block.I am sure this happens VERY often.

This thread has now spun out of control and We are now officially kicking a dead horse !!!


max

[Fast67VelleN2O]

What about the next time a &quot;Kevin Hand&quot; car goes through an auction at no reserve? It would be hard to bid on one once this has all come to light. Who is gonna bid when they know there will almost certainly be a shill bidder against them?

[Charley Lillard]

The blue RS ZL1 was in a collection that was sold at reserve.

[iluv69s]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fast67VelleN2O</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What about the next time a &quot;Kevin Hand&quot; car goes through an auction at no reserve? It would be hard to bid on one once this has all come to light. Who is gonna bid when they know there will almost certainly be a shill bidder against them? </div></div>

my point exactly..and unfortunately I believe this happens all the time.....