Hidden VIN does not match VIN plate or paperwork

[WILMASBOYL78]

I just went to the dealer's website...they list the BBB logo and also membership in the state dealers association. Might be worth contacting those two organizations to see if they can help. I know that in NY the dealer associations don't like any fraud issues...a little pressure from these two might get a favorable response.

-wilma

[Igosplut]

Back in the 80s I saw quite a few cars re-bodyed. Five that come immediately to mind. Nothing was really known about the hidden VINs (by these guys or me) , and when pointed out (I actually spotted the cowl VIN on a disassembled 69 COPO Camaro body) these guys didn't really care. In their minds, it was far more important to have a perfect body than worry about that. In some cases, they built a car out of the leftovers so it was like a double hit (in later years, two 69 Chevelles got particularly sticky as the two owners tried to figure out a solution). I was just an observer in all this, but most of the cars were sold for high dollars, and as more info became available in later years I figured these buyers lost some big money. Mind you, this was never to hide stolen stuff, but the State police/DMV doesn't see it that way. In MA, at the very least they are going to take the car, and IF (BIG if) you get it back, it will have a state VIN and they will keep the GM tags (even the trim tag). I'm very familiar with this as I've seen people lose cases and frames of motorcycles for the smallest Discrepancy (the state police stood over one guy I know while he disassembled his engine so they could take the cases just because they didn't like the VIN)

I would say it helps that a dealer sold the car (but it doesn't help the dealers case being cagey about not addressing the issue) But I still would bet the police take the car, and it will be a long drawn out process. Like 69L78 said, lawyer up and quick.

[PeteLeathersac]

'


Sad situation but being the one who notifies the feds may be best, not them find out otherwise and show up?
Best of luck w/ everything!
~ Pete

.

[olredalert]

Originally Posted by Igosplut

Back in the 80s I saw quite a few cars re-bodyed. Five that come immediately to mind. Nothing was really known about the hidden VINs (by these guys or me) , and when pointed out (I actually spotted the cowl VIN on a disassembled 69 COPO Camaro body) these guys didn't really care. In their minds, it was far more important to have a perfect body than worry about that. In some cases, they built a car out of the leftovers so it was like a double hit (in later years, two 69 Chevelles got particularly sticky as the two owners tried to figure out a solution). I was just an observer in all this, but most of the cars were sold for high dollars, and as more info became available in later years I figured these buyers lost some big money. Mind you, this was never to hide stolen stuff, but the State police/DMV doesn't see it that way. In MA, at the very least they are going to take the car, and IF (BIG if) you get it back, it will have a state VIN and they will keep the GM tags (even the trim tag). I'm very familiar with this as I've seen people lose cases and frames of motorcycles for the smallest Discrepancy (the state police stood over one guy I know while he disassembled his engine so they could take the cases just because they didn't like the VIN)I would say it helps that a dealer sold the car (but it doesn't help the dealers case being cagey about not addressing the issue) But I still would bet the police take the car, and it will be a long drawn out process. Like 69L78 said, lawyer up and quick.

----I know of three of those 5 cars, Joel!......Bill S

[Lee Stewart]

As I see it, there are three options:

1. Continue to try to contact the dealer and if successful, work out a trade of some kind; he takes the Camaro back and your customer picks out another car of equal value - one where there are no VIN issues. The probability of this happening IMO is good. Asking to return the car for a full refund . . . not good.

Why hasn't the buyer gone back to the dealer's location and brace him there?

2. Contact the local police and bring the issue to their attention. Best case; they give the car a State VIN and remove GM VIN tag(s). Will also require reregistering and retitling the car along with insurance company notification. Worse case; one of the VINs is on a stolen car list and your customer loses the car. Now he has to bring suit against the dealer to recover his funds. That involves an attorney so he will be upside-down no matter what.

3. Do nothing. I know that may sound a bit reckless but at this moment, your customer has a car he wanted and can drive it. The only issue is that he can't sell it. He now knows there is a VIN issue. As the buyer he can claim ignorance . . . but as a seller he can not.

[Igosplut]

Originally Posted by olredalert

----I know of three of those 5 cars, Joel!......Bill S

Yep Bill, I bet you know all five of "em. I'll have to privately relate the COPO Chevelle story to you. It's actually quite humorous when you are not involved....

[dustinm]

Lawyer FIRST


cops second

[69L78]

Originally Posted by dustinm

Lawyer FIRST


cops second

Give Bryan Shook a call, it does not cost anything for a phone call.

Bryan Shook
717-884-9010
[email protected]

[EZ Nova]

Originally Posted by 70-SS/RS-L78

By any chance has anyone hear ever purchased a car or done any kind of business with Sabetta’s Classics in Orville Ohio? One of our customers purchased a 69 Camaro Convertible from them that was supposed to be a SS but after looking closely at the car it turns out that it is just a regular Camaro, not a SS. After digging deeper it is not only a cloan SS but the hidden VINs do not match. This is the first musclecar the buyer has ever purchased so he is learning the hard way. He has been calling them and trying to contact the dealership but they will not answer or return his calls. He asked me what his what his options are and I told him I would look into it.....
Mark

Mark, like others said, LAWYER UP ASAP now. Better to get ahead of the wave then under it. THAT will give him options.

Others have said the same thing. BUT the fact you say they are now NOT returning or not answering is one GREAT BIG red flag to me. From the website, they make it out like this Rick Sabetta has

"painstakingly restored"

hundreds of classic automobiles, during which time he has developed a passion for 1960-70s muscle cars. He hand-selects each car from sources all over our nation, returns them as close to original condition as possible, then offers them for sale.??? So if that is in fact the case, seems he might know more than he's letting on to. Or at least knew about this issue and didn't disclose it?

Hate to see someone get burned like your customer. But seriously get a lawyer involved. I would have the lawyer issue a letter to FULLY REFUNDS ALL COST involved INCLUDING any and all legal fees. From the guys own website, he has 24 yrs of doing this. So therefore misrepresenting this Camaro as an SS, would this not also constitute fraud charges over the VIN issues as well.

IF the shop doesn't want to refund the $$$, then have the lawyer start proceedings and have local law enforcement involved. Then there is the whole over state lines stuff and other cans of worms like getting the local NEWS involved on your customers behalve as well as warning on social media.

BUT get legal council, protect yourself before this goes any further.

Good luck

[Rumbleguts396]

My guess is the dealership has already contacted an attorney. Thus the reason he will not speak with your customer directly. Most likely waiting to see how the car owner is going to proceed. I agree with most, get a lawyer before your buyer says anything to the dealer that may hurt him further if legal proceedings are needed. Hope the best for the Camaro owner and all involved. Hate to hear about these things happening in our hobby, it's supposed to be a hobby to give us peace and joy. Not heartache. Rob