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  #51  
Old 07-02-2019, 03:53 PM
Keith Seymore's Avatar
Keith Seymore Keith Seymore is online now
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Originally Posted by bergy View Post
The one that we found was wrapped in plastic. Built intake to pan - can't recall WP. The ZL1 blocks were machined on their own CNC machining center up by the offices - very state of the art at the time. I'm not sure if they were even assembled on the regular production line. I didn't work in the motor plant - just passed by the ZL1 machining center on the way to QC meetings over there.
When I was on the traveling launch team one of the things we would do is get together and swap "misappropriation" stories from the various final assembly locations.

(ie - windshields layered between two pieces of cardboard and used as an umbrella; thermos filled with paint, etc)

K
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Old 07-02-2019, 06:36 PM
markinnaples markinnaples is online now
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And you as well Keith, I've enjoyed hearing your tales from those days as well!

Sounds like an interesting place to work, thank you for sharing.
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  #53  
Old 07-06-2019, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by William View Post
The "approximately 700 total vehicles" was an estimate made during July, 1969.
If you read the 1969 COPO letters from Chevy they do not say the 700 number as just an estimate. They are very detailed letters and looks like a lot of effort went into writing them.

The letter states the 700 number is from “ a complete review of the high performance vehicle area orders to date “.
They counted the actual orders for COPO 427s.

They had access to the Tonawanda L72 engine production numbers , why didn’t they use them?

We know more were ordered and built after 7-9-1969 but how many?
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  #54  
Old 07-06-2019, 12:04 PM
JoeC JoeC is offline
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Originally Posted by William View Post
Tonawanda did not produce engines on spec. They were built based on demand from vehicle assembly plants. Tonawanda built 1,373 Camaro/Chevelle L72 engines. For '700 total vehicles' to be correct means about 700 L72 engines were produced for no reason. Really think they did that?


I don’t know how good the Chevy inventory control system was in 1969 but Yes I do think the engine production number can go much higher than the car production on SHP engines. They have a history of doing that.

The SHP 427 Corvette engine production went much higher than car production numbers (from Corvette web sites so not sure if they are 100% but was same on different sites )

1967: 277 L88 engines , 20 L88 Corvettes built
1968: 615 L88 engines , 80 L88 Corvettes built
1969: 213 L88 engines , 116 L88 Corvettes built
1969 94 ZL1 engines , about 3 ZL1 Corvettes built.

They even built SHP engines for cars that were never built
14 Engines built for the 1971 LS6 Chevelle , no production cars built

Some engines have been found with COPO suffix codes and no vin number stamped on the block.

Tonawanda built a lot of engines and stamped many different suffix codes

12 engine suffix codes just for 1969 396 Camaro/Chevelle
18 engine suffix codes just for 1969 427 Passenger

suffix codes just for a Heavy Duty Clutch or a Police package
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  #55  
Old 07-06-2019, 12:17 PM
JoeC JoeC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William View Post

Why do you continually second-guess his data, obtained directly from Tonawanda production records by an employee, 18 years after production?
Fran Preve did a great job getting the Tonawanda engine numbers and we are lucky to have them but some of his assumptions were not accurate.

In the 1987 article "The Numbers Game" He states the numbers do not reflect actual COPO cars produced but he said that the engines are 2 to 5 percent over cars.
They were not 2 to 5 percent over cars, they were 2 to 22 percent over cars

ZL1 Camaro 88 engines to 69 cars = 22%
L72 Chevelle 358 engines to 323 cars (using RPOs) = 10%
L72 Camaro 1015 engines to 997 cars (using RPOs) = 2%


In the 1990s he made the calculation subtracting the RPO L78 and Z27 Z25 numbers and assumed that all remaining cars are COPO 427.
This calculation result shows 997 COPO L72 Camaros and 323 COPO L72 Chevelles.

This assumption may not be accurate because it is not known how Police, Export, other COPO, F&SO , or foreign assembly plant units can affect the numbers.

There was some info found on non-SS 396 Chevelles.
This showed that the assumption all remaining cars are COPO 427 may not be accurate

Attatced a pic of a 1969 Police Chevelle brochure showing a 396 325 HP option.
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Last edited by JoeC; 07-06-2019 at 06:06 PM.
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