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  #41  
Old 01-20-2023, 04:37 AM
COPO COPO is offline
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In regards to the Motion finned valve covers, it's pretty well accepted they became available some time in 1970 and could have been delivered on a couple of the 1969 Camaros as at least three of them were delivered later into 1970.

They do look cool, so not surprised to see them on the 1968, but they certainly are not original to how the car was built by Motion in 1968.
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  #42  
Old 01-20-2023, 11:17 AM
EZ Nova EZ Nova is offline
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Good luck with the sale.
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  #43  
Old 01-20-2023, 12:03 PM
cook_dw cook_dw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsinor View Post
No offense taken, I simply ask what 68 camaro could you could get a 4.56 gear from the factory? Sorry maybe I did not ask but forget the car, what was a factory 4.56 available in?

Z and L78. My point is how do we know 100% the diff has not been out of the car.?. No paperwork correct? Diffs don't have partials so you tell me. If someone has proof I won't say another word. Its very possible that is the original diff but I haven't seen photos nor am I interested in purchasing. I am simply asking questions. Seems like a lot of folks are pushing the car or is it me? I hope its real, I hope it brings a bigillion dollars. I just like stone cold facts.
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  #44  
Old 01-20-2023, 12:20 PM
70 copo 70 copo is offline
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The catalog I imaged has extensive conversion parts specifications and both the L-71's and L-72's are cataloged by GM PN#.

So the car being discussed started life as a SB potentially? It should have started life as an L-78.

If it started life as a SB:

Motion sourced a correct 4.56 geared rear end assembly.
Did a BB heater conversion to the firewall
Built a spec L-72 block to Motion engine specifications using a donor engine
Added an Aluminum Blow proof clutch package to the build
Used the typical ignition system and Sun Tach
Used the Motion glass hood with no other cosmetics.
Used a FLY-EYE air cleaner
Used the Offenhauser style finned valve covers with the Motion plaques that later came into the full catalog line about 24 months later in 1970.

Small blocks had finned valve covers already in 1968 but they were the pre cast "Edelbrock" aftermarket kind.

If it started life as an L-78:

Built a spec L-72 block to Motion engine specifications using a donor engine
Added an Aluminum Blow proof clutch package to the build
Used the typical ignition system and Sun Tach
Used the Motion glass hood with no other cosmetics.
Used a FLY-EYE air cleaner
Used the Offenhauser style finned valve covers with the Motion plaques that later came into the full catalog line about 24 months later in 1970.


The catalog does state in the how to build section that "Any L-72 or L-71 with 4 bolt mains can be upgraded for maximum performance service using components from the heavy duty parts list" and Joel introduces the reader to the art of converting the lower end of these motors into what was called a complete "Stroker lower end" treating each engine as a unique and individual project.

With that said there is zero mention of Motion offering any in house substitution package using parts previously installed from another vehicle associated with a new car sale through Baldwin.
  #45  
Old 01-20-2023, 12:42 PM
cook_dw cook_dw is offline
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Anyone have a photo of the fuel line on top of the sub and down near the motor mount?
  #46  
Old 01-20-2023, 12:54 PM
1903USMCUnertl 1903USMCUnertl is offline
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I really like this car!! I’m just having a hard time connecting all of the dots this is a Baldwin Motion Camaro in the strictest sense and not a car bought at Baldwin and converted a few years later.

Given the narrative the car was ordered through Baldwin and converted before retail delivery..I personally wouldn’t expect a passenger car L72 block to be in the car. I’d expect a CE coded block.

It makes sense the car was ordered as a L78 and an easy way would be pics of the fuel line. I’ve always understood Rosen ordered the cars that way through Baldwin to take advantage of the engine top end and HD suspension. Also because he recouped part of the conversion cost by selling the short blocks to guys looking for more HP.

What is to say given the lack of paperwork this wasn’t the case with this car.., and it just worked out the engine casting/stamping date is before the car? I mean the heads, intake, etc.. would have been off the L78 and therefore dated correctly.

How logical is it someone had Motion pull a L72 out of a big car and then the short block was used on this car?

Does the car retain the mechanical fuel pump? Are there components that could be dated that are on the car which Motion added?

Given the block stamping, mileage and engine parts which post date the notion of being done in 1968 before delivery., coupled with the lack of paperwork.. to me the car is more logically a L78 bought at Baldwin and then converted a few years after.

Still a great car which anyone would love to own.. including myself.

Just my thoughts
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  #47  
Old 01-20-2023, 02:21 PM
STEFS STEFS is offline
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Gentlemen thanks for all the comments.The Camaro has the 3/8, fuel line ,the BBC heater box,and BBC radiator tag. As commented Motion took out the 375 and sold the engines.. The only 427-425 available were for a Impala wagon. The long blocks were probable taken off the line in Tonawanda since they had a abundance of them and sent to Motion . As you can see the date casting on block corresponds to the build date of car. As stated before I have owners history to present. Per the CRG the only cars available with the 4.56 gear was a 350-295 hp and the 396. Even the water pump ,starter, alternator are all dated in 1967 just as the block. Again I have over 100 pictures of this Camaro inside and out . Thanks again for all your comments Joe
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  #48  
Old 01-20-2023, 02:51 PM
1903USMCUnertl 1903USMCUnertl is offline
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Thank you for your post. It is a great car!

Just curious but where did you get the info Chevrolet only had big car short blocks at the time? Just curious as I believe Tonawanda forecasted both production and warranty needs. Not sure why they would over produce an arguably limited use code.

If they only had big car engines available I’d expect to see ID coded engines being installed under warranty in cars during this period., including in Corvettes and I personally have never seen a passenger car coded Corvette warranty engine.

What do verifiable other 68 and 69 Motion SS427 cars have for suffix codes?

I’m not saying it isn’t possible but without some paperwork originating from Baldwin or Motion I’m still leaning to the car being a factory L78 which was upgraded at a later date. Most likely very early ‘70’s.

It is important to remember all of the engine accessories (including essentially all the dated stuff save short block only) is the same between L78/L72. So the dates would already be spot on (provided original to the VIN stuff)

Also since the things on the car which are associated with Motion were all “over the counter” parts.. they could have been added early in the cars life and look completely period correct.

Are there any parts added which have production dates or casting dates? Carb date?

I do think it is telling the valve covers weren’t being used by Motion until later than when the car was built. This logically tells me someone added them at a later date and very well points to the car being upgraded later. Especially given the low mileage and overall original condition of everything else.. .. it would seem to me the original chrome covers would be with the car.

Do you have any period pictures of the car which can date the look? If often found original owners of such unique cars took a few and they help document.

Either way it is a very cool car!

GLWA… I couldn’t let that one go

Last edited by 1903USMCUnertl; 01-20-2023 at 02:57 PM.
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  #49  
Old 01-20-2023, 03:29 PM
SuperNovaSS SuperNovaSS is offline
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The ID code 427 were the common replacement in 1968 and are also what were installed in boats of that time frame. I can’t remember with certainty but I believe CE blocks began production in 1969. Also, if the block were out of a production Chevy full-size, it would have a partial VIN stamped on the pad.

Jason
  #50  
Old 01-20-2023, 03:34 PM
70 copo 70 copo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STEFS View Post
Gentlemen thanks for all the comments.The Camaro has the 3/8, fuel line ,the BBC heater box,and BBC radiator tag. As commented Motion took out the 375 and sold the engines.. The only 427-425 available were for a Impala wagon. The long blocks were probable taken off the line in Tonawanda since they had a abundance of them and sent to Motion . As you can see the date casting on block corresponds to the build date of car. As stated before I have owners history to present. Per the CRG the only cars available with the 4.56 gear was a 350-295 hp and the 396. Even the water pump ,starter, alternator are all dated in 1967 just as the block. Again I have over 100 pictures of this Camaro inside and out . Thanks again for all your comments Joe
Cool story thanks for sharing.

Which of the owners recall the finned valve covers with the motion plaques installed?

When were they installed, and if not original to the 1968 pedigree-why?

Last edited by 70 copo; 01-21-2023 at 02:46 PM.
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