"New" '69 Motion Camaro's

djunod · #1 08-04-2005, 09:36 PM

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=61903

DarrenX33 · #2 08-04-2005, 09:51 PM

Hmmm. I smell a debate brewing whether the 12 cars were real Baldwin cars...

Sounds pretty cool. Anxious to see the results.

djunod · #3 08-04-2005, 11:31 PM

Of course they won't be "Baldwin" cars... I wonder why they even threw that part in?

DarrenX33 · #4 08-04-2005, 11:54 PM

My thoughts as well. Unless Joel found 12 documented Baldwin cars for the conversion.

**427TJ** · #5 08-05-2005, 08:05 AM

Too bad he isn't making exact '69 Phase III L88 replicas! Yeah, they'd be a quarter-million too so nevermind...

I hope he makes money on this deal. It must bug him just a little that his creations change hands for huge amounts of money and he only sees a $1500 verification fee.

55chevy · #6 08-05-2005, 08:22 AM

there's no way these "new" 12 are "Baldwin" cars... If you ask me its all $$$ motivated. Cash in on "Baldwin/Motion" Camaros while they are "hot". ........... Because you know damn well these new 12 "baldwin motion" '69 Camaros will have a price tag in the six figures... Waaaaay beyond ANYTHING a working class guy like me will EVER be able to afford, much less ever own. .. All because this "supercar"/"baldwin/motion" craze has gotten WAY out of control and too many guys with more money than brains designed their own pricing system for the few hundred remaining cars that still exist... I guess I'm just out of the loop now.. Somehow we've developed into a time where a green/green 2bbl 307 '69 Nova with wear and tear is selling for 6-8k and anything else worth a damn is 5 to 6 figures???? And I'm making LESS money than I did 5 years ago??!! and paying twice as much for gas and food and everything else?? ....WTF?..... I feel like the "hobby" is losing me because it's barely "fun" anymore......

I just don't have the $$ to be an "accepted" participant.....

**Lynn** · #7 08-05-2005, 08:49 AM

Ed nailed it.

"Only" sees a $1500 verification fee?

I have never met Joel Rosen. He is probably a stand up guy, and I really don't have a problem with him cashing in on his reputation by building some special cars. They will be special.

As far as the verification fee, I don't get that figure at all, unless there is a lot more work involved than what I figure. It seems he kept records of most of the cars he tuned or modified. Someone calls him up, gives him a VIN and he spends 10 minutes (OK, he may be more like me and spend 20 min just looking) and charges $1500. While the service may well be worth it, seems pretty high.

If you had an original car and tracked down the original owner, asking for "verification" wouldn't you be outraged if he said "I won't tell you if I am the original owner until you send me a check for $1500"?

Don't get me wrong. He is a part of history and should be paid well for the information he has. $1500 a pop just seems a little out of line.

How much did the Yenko family charge to publish the list of 200 or so 69 YSC Camaro's?

Ed, there was a time when "real car guys" (and there are still some out there) would go out of their way for another car guy, even if they just met. Unfortunately, the almighty dollar still rules. That's why we have reproduction body shells (euphamistically called a "repair part") fake trim tags, fake POP's, "rebody" restorations (i.e. the illegal swapping of a VIN plate) and the like. Maybe I am just getting too old, but I liked the old days when my 69 Z (bought in 77 because I wanted one in high school but could only afford my 57 Chevy for $350) wasn't worth that much. Since I am not going to sell it, it just means now I have to insure it for more $$$$$.

Just blowing a little steam. Don't tell me what a great guy Joel is. Like I said, he may be a great guy. And I am sure his verification process is well worth it to many guys. I don't doubt that. I also realize there may be much more work involved than I am assuming.

Lynn

55chevy · #8 08-05-2005, 10:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
but could only afford my 57 Chevy for $350) wasn't worth that much. Since I am not going to sell it, it just means now I have to insure it for more $$$$$.

Just blowing a little steam. Don't tell me what a great guy Joel is. Like I said, he may be a great guy. And I am sure his verification process is well worth it to many guys. I don't doubt that. I also realize there may be much more work involved than I am assuming.

Lynn

[/ QUOTE ]

I wish I could afford that 57 Chevy TODAY

As far as Joel goes..I'm sure he is a real nice guy to those who he invites into his closed circle.. and there is no doubt that he knows what he's doing when it comes to modifying and super tuning Super Cars.. But I'm sure to him it always was and still is a "business" and all about the money.. Don't you think if he looked at it as being about the cars, Hobby and People he'd be A LOT more involved than we've seen? It's a Business to Joel.. He IS Motion Performance. and it's HIS line to set in where he is at in this. And as long as his old cars are bringing monster bucks I don't see him being in this to make friends. Alot of us wish that would change because we'd love to hear Joels stories and have his imput these days but because the world that exists today has labled him as a "commodity ".. he's in it for the business/money.. I know I'd get pissed off if I just set back and watched a bunch of someone elses profit from something that I had created...

You know I'm sure Joel is a great guy and I would love to meet and talk to him and have him as a friend, but he is twice my age and I don't have the money it takes to buy one of his cars and I'm sure he's not interested in getting to know just some guy who "would love to have" one of his cars.. I'm sure he feels like he's on the other side of the fence from the rest of us. I wish it wasn't that way. But the way people are so hungry to scavenge anything they can off the Baldwin/Motion name today... it's just gonna keep Joel on that other side of the fence from us.

**Charley Lillard** · #9 08-05-2005, 11:13 AM

Ed..As far as I know, Joel is working like the rest of us. He just probably earns more than you. He has his business of selling models and airplanes. You could sell models also. That is what this country is about. If you make less now than you did a few years ago you might try something else. As for Joel's 1,500.00 fee, I think that is cheap in comparison to the value added to the car. Joel could charge 5000.00 and people that need it to document their car are still money ahead. Joel apparently is going to have his name on some new cars to be built. More power to him. Once again that is what this country is about.

**COPO** · #10 08-05-2005, 03:43 PM

It seems to me Joel's concept of using a vintage 69 Camaro body is more true to the original concept then taking a new 2002 Camaro and modifying it and calling it a "Dick Harrell" camaro. Of course our free market system will determine just how sucessful this concept is.

In regards to Joel's $1,500 verification fee, as Charley said, it is cheap compared to the value it creates for the owner. The amount of the fee should have nothing to do with the twenty minutes of time it might take to look through some files and write a letter. Using that concept, we sure wouldn't be paying sports stars, actors, doctors, etc., the multi millions they earn for their limited time. The other thing the fee does is discourage every Tom, Dick and Harry from pestering Joel to document any old car that happens to have a fly eye air cleaner or a set of finned valve covers.